Turner Gill

[HUSKER 37]

When we hired Bo, Gill was my top choice...by just a hair though.

In the aftermath, I doubt there would have been much difference W/L wise..And I would have really hated to see us fire another Husker.

The things that bugged me the most while Turner was at KU was the ultra Religious overtones/curfews...Although I suspect, it was more of a desperation move to turn them around and maybe would have been less likely to try those moves at DONU.

He played with my cousin at UNL and Montreal, Coached my cousin's oldest Son at KU, and I think is coaching my Cousin's youngest Son at Liberty.

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

I think Turner did quite well at Buffalo, just too big of jump, not enough head coaching experience. CEO level experience. That is what killed Bo to. Neither were qualified for the job. My question is how would have Grobe done here? Close friends with Tom, and would have listened to him I think. Still feel that him not getting the job was end of Nebraska football as we have known it. Riley gives us the chance again, but is he young enough to get the job done?

Personally I feel Gill would have done a better job, at least had an understanding of what a head coach was, and understood what the Nebraska fan base expected.

Grobe was never considered for the job. That was an internet rumor started by a friend of mine on RSS. Spread like wild fire and we still joke about it today. Even Grobe tries to believe it

 

[Red Five]

Probably would have went 9-4 every year...

I do think is strict act with the players would have worn thin (female after 10 thing, turning in cell phones, etc)

 

[TGHusker]

My 1st choice was Paul Johnson - then at Navy now at GT. He's done pretty well down there. I then wanted Bo over Turner just because the D was so bad. In hindsight, I think Turner would have been a better recruiter and a much better face on NU football. He did have HC experience which would have help in the learning curve. I would expect him to hire a qualified DC and maybe one who could make adjustment in a way Bo never could. Record: with better recruiting and having a personality that didn't melt down on the sideline and affect players - I would think he would have been 10-3 most years instead of 9-4 like Bo - 1 game better per year. Just maybe we might have won one of those Big 12 championships.

Kansas was foolish not giving him more time.

 

[Enhance]

My 1st choice was Paul Johnson - then at Navy now at GT. He's done pretty well down there. I then wanted Bo over Turner just because the D was so bad. In hindsight, I think Turner would have been a better recruiter and a much better face on NU football. He did have HC experience which would have help in the learning curve. I would expect him to hire a qualified DC and maybe one who could make adjustment in a way Bo never could. Record: with better recruiting and having a personality that didn't melt down on the sideline and affect players - I would think he would have been 10-3 most years instead of 9-4 like Bo - 1 game better per year. Just maybe we might have won one of those Big 12 championships.

Kansas was foolish not giving him more time.

He was 5-24 as the head coach of Kansas, and in his final season, won two games before going on a 10 game losing streak. While I think you could definitely argue that it was Kansas, keep the expectations low and give him more time, one can also completely understand the argument for letting him go. Winning five games in two seasons is pretty poor. They didn't put up with Weis either - he only won three games in his second year.

Something NUance and I were talking about, and I have the same question for you - what makes you think Gill would've been a better recruiter than Pelini? Gill probably would've been a better face than Pelini and I don't think anyone would argue that. But, outside of character, Pelini's coaching background was better and he had more to pitch in this regard (a championship ring, great defensive reputation, decent NFL coaching career). And, this is just a guess, but I'm guessing Pelini's connections were better than Gill's just by nature of Pelini's coaching footprint. I mean, when you're sitting in a home with a recruit, character goes a long way. But, so does the 'what can you do for me' mentality on both sides of the aisle. Just curious on your thoughts here.

 

[TGHusker]

My 1st choice was Paul Johnson - then at Navy now at GT. He's done pretty well down there. I then wanted Bo over Turner just because the D was so bad. In hindsight, I think Turner would have been a better recruiter and a much better face on NU football. He did have HC experience which would have help in the learning curve. I would expect him to hire a qualified DC and maybe one who could make adjustment in a way Bo never could. Record: with better recruiting and having a personality that didn't melt down on the sideline and affect players - I would think he would have been 10-3 most years instead of 9-4 like Bo - 1 game better per year. Just maybe we might have won one of those Big 12 championships.

Kansas was foolish not giving him more time.

He was 5-24 as the head coach of Kansas, and in his final season, won two games before going on a 10 game losing streak. While I think you could definitely argue that it was Kansas, keep the expectations low and give him more time, one can also completely understand the argument for letting him go. Winning five games in two seasons is pretty poor. They didn't put up with Weis either - he only won three games in his second year.

Something NUance and I were talking about, and I have the same question for you - what makes you think Gill would've been a better recruiter than Pelini? Gill probably would've been a better face than Pelini and I don't think anyone would argue that. But, outside of character, Pelini's coaching background was better and he had more to pitch in this regard (a championship ring, great defensive reputation, decent NFL coaching career). And, this is just a guess, but I'm guessing Pelini's connections were better than Gill's just by nature of Pelini's coaching footprint. I mean, when you're sitting in a home with a recruit, character goes a long way. But, so does the 'what can you do for me' mentality on both sides of the aisle. Just curious on your thoughts here.

Good thoughts - Yes Bo had the ring as DC and could say he coached at some pretty great schools - NU, OU, LSU all pretty good on a recruiter's resume. I still think the character issue is a big draw for the parents. The 'rings' gets the kid's attention, the coach's character and reputation as an individual gets the parent's attention - and they are the ones who 'pay the bills'. While Bo had the rings, Gill could counter that he played for and coached wt a Hall of Fame coach and was a part of national championship teams as an assistant coach (thus he had rings but he wasn't a DC or OC at the time). He could also tell the "Nebraska Story" and sell it better than Bo ever could - because he lived it, was a vital part of it and fully embraced it.

Regarding Kansas - It isn't just Gill. If coaches aren't' given the opportunity beyond 2 years to succeed, Kansas will never improve. Turning something around takes time regardless if it is Gill or Weis. We were concern about firing Solich and Bo after 9 win seasons and wondered if we could get a quality coach - good grief - how can Kansas ever improve & land a quality coach now if they don't give someone time to succeed. The one successful year of Mangino's made big heads out of the Kansas administrators and all of a sudden they thought they were a traditional power.

 

[Enhance]

My 1st choice was Paul Johnson - then at Navy now at GT. He's done pretty well down there. I then wanted Bo over Turner just because the D was so bad. In hindsight, I think Turner would have been a better recruiter and a much better face on NU football. He did have HC experience which would have help in the learning curve. I would expect him to hire a qualified DC and maybe one who could make adjustment in a way Bo never could. Record: with better recruiting and having a personality that didn't melt down on the sideline and affect players - I would think he would have been 10-3 most years instead of 9-4 like Bo - 1 game better per year. Just maybe we might have won one of those Big 12 championships.

Kansas was foolish not giving him more time.

He was 5-24 as the head coach of Kansas, and in his final season, won two games before going on a 10 game losing streak. While I think you could definitely argue that it was Kansas, keep the expectations low and give him more time, one can also completely understand the argument for letting him go. Winning five games in two seasons is pretty poor. They didn't put up with Weis either - he only won three games in his second year.

Something NUance and I were talking about, and I have the same question for you - what makes you think Gill would've been a better recruiter than Pelini? Gill probably would've been a better face than Pelini and I don't think anyone would argue that. But, outside of character, Pelini's coaching background was better and he had more to pitch in this regard (a championship ring, great defensive reputation, decent NFL coaching career). And, this is just a guess, but I'm guessing Pelini's connections were better than Gill's just by nature of Pelini's coaching footprint. I mean, when you're sitting in a home with a recruit, character goes a long way. But, so does the 'what can you do for me' mentality on both sides of the aisle. Just curious on your thoughts here.

Good thoughts - Yes Bo had the ring as DC and could say he coached at some pretty great schools - NU, OU, LSU all pretty good on a recruiter's resume. I still think the character issue is a big draw for the parents. The 'rings' gets the kid's attention, the coach's character and reputation as an individual gets the parent's attention - and they are the ones who 'pay the bills'. While Bo had the rings, Gill could counter that he played for and coached wt a Hall of Fame coach and was a part of national championship teams as an assistant coach (thus he had rings but he wasn't a DC or OC at the time). He could also tell the "Nebraska Story" and sell it better than Bo ever could - because he lived it, was a vital part of it and fully embraced it.

Regarding Kansas - It isn't just Gill. If coaches aren't' given the opportunity beyond 2 years to succeed, Kansas will never improve. Turning something around takes time regardless if it is Gill or Weis. We were concern about firing Solich and Bo after 9 win seasons and wondered if we could get a quality coach - good grief - how can Kansas ever improve & land a quality coach now if they don't give someone time to succeed. The one successful year of Mangino's made big heads out of the Kansas administrators and all of a sudden they thought they were a traditional power.

Fair arguments all around. I think I just personally believe character goes a long way, but, may not always win you the best recruits when it's all said and done. I also know that if Bo or Turner sat in my living and told me all they'd done, I'd probably be more impressed with the guy that helped coach teams to titles rather than played in them. But, that's just me.

I'm mostly in agreement with you about the Gill thing. I see where their line of thinking was with firing him but Kansas is anything but a traditional power on the gridiron. They have better talent in their state than we do but just little interest it seems. I think they should find a guy that's willing to put in the grind work. It may not pay off in the first few years but it may down the road. I think Gill deserved at least three or four seasons. Hell, they were paying him really, really well too. Perhaps that factored into the decision.

 

[Eric the Red]

Good question.

I feel like he would have had about the same Big 12 record minus a title game appearance in 2010. Then the move to the Big Ten ends in a disastorous 2011 that ends in a 5-7 record and him being replaced.

My 1st choice was Paul Johnson - then at Navy now at GT. He's done pretty well down there. I then wanted Bo over Turner just because the D was so bad. In hindsight, I think Turner would have been a better recruiter and a much better face on NU football. He did have HC experience which would have help in the learning curve. I would expect him to hire a qualified DC and maybe one who could make adjustment in a way Bo never could. Record: with better recruiting and having a personality that didn't melt down on the sideline and affect players - I would think he would have been 10-3 most years instead of 9-4 like Bo - 1 game better per year. Just maybe we might have won one of those Big 12 championships.

Kansas was foolish not giving him more time.

He was 5-24 as the head coach of Kansas, and in his final season, won two games before going on a 10 game losing streak. While I think you could definitely argue that it was Kansas, keep the expectations low and give him more time, one can also completely understand the argument for letting him go. Winning five games in two seasons is pretty poor. They didn't put up with Weis either - he only won three games in his second year.

Something NUance and I were talking about, and I have the same question for you - what makes you think Gill would've been a better recruiter than Pelini? Gill probably would've been a better face than Pelini and I don't think anyone would argue that. But, outside of character, Pelini's coaching background was better and he had more to pitch in this regard (a championship ring, great defensive reputation, decent NFL coaching career). And, this is just a guess, but I'm guessing Pelini's connections were better than Gill's just by nature of Pelini's coaching footprint. I mean, when you're sitting in a home with a recruit, character goes a long way. But, so does the 'what can you do for me' mentality on both sides of the aisle. Just curious on your thoughts here.

Good thoughts - Yes Bo had the ring as DC and could say he coached at some pretty great schools - NU, OU, LSU all pretty good on a recruiter's resume. I still think the character issue is a big draw for the parents. The 'rings' gets the kid's attention, the coach's character and reputation as an individual gets the parent's attention - and they are the ones who 'pay the bills'. While Bo had the rings, Gill could counter that he played for and coached wt a Hall of Fame coach and was a part of national championship teams as an assistant coach (thus he had rings but he wasn't a DC or OC at the time). He could also tell the "Nebraska Story" and sell it better than Bo ever could - because he lived it, was a vital part of it and fully embraced it.

Regarding Kansas - It isn't just Gill. If coaches aren't' given the opportunity beyond 2 years to succeed, Kansas will never improve. Turning something around takes time regardless if it is Gill or Weis. We were concern about firing Solich and Bo after 9 win seasons and wondered if we could get a quality coach - good grief - how can Kansas ever improve & land a quality coach now if they don't give someone time to succeed. The one successful year of Mangino's made big heads out of the Kansas administrators and all of a sudden they thought they were a traditional power.

Fair arguments all around. I think I just personally believe character goes a long way, but, may not always win you the best recruits when it's all said and done. I also know that if Bo or Turner sat in my living and told me all they'd done, I'd probably be more impressed with the guy that helped coach teams to titles rather than played in them. But, that's just me.

I'm mostly in agreement with you about the Gill thing. I see where their line of thinking was with firing him but Kansas is anything but a traditional power on the gridiron. They have better talent in their state than we do but just little interest it seems. I think they should find a guy that's willing to put in the grind work. It may not pay off in the first few years but it may down the road. I think Gill deserved at least three or four seasons. Hell, they were paying him really, really well too. Perhaps that factored into the decision.

Tough to remember because of how long ago and there were no recruiting services, but can anyone recall Turner recruiting big time major contributors while at Nebraska?

 

[NUance]

Good question.

I feel like he would have had about the same Big 12 record minus a title game appearance in 2010. Then the move to the Big Ten ends in a disastorous 2011 that ends in a 5-7 record and him being replaced.

My 1st choice was Paul Johnson - then at Navy now at GT. He's done pretty well down there. I then wanted Bo over Turner just because the D was so bad. In hindsight, I think Turner would have been a better recruiter and a much better face on NU football. He did have HC experience which would have help in the learning curve. I would expect him to hire a qualified DC and maybe one who could make adjustment in a way Bo never could. Record: with better recruiting and having a personality that didn't melt down on the sideline and affect players - I would think he would have been 10-3 most years instead of 9-4 like Bo - 1 game better per year. Just maybe we might have won one of those Big 12 championships.

Kansas was foolish not giving him more time.

He was 5-24 as the head coach of Kansas, and in his final season, won two games before going on a 10 game losing streak. While I think you could definitely argue that it was Kansas, keep the expectations low and give him more time, one can also completely understand the argument for letting him go. Winning five games in two seasons is pretty poor. They didn't put up with Weis either - he only won three games in his second year.

Something NUance and I were talking about, and I have the same question for you - what makes you think Gill would've been a better recruiter than Pelini? Gill probably would've been a better face than Pelini and I don't think anyone would argue that. But, outside of character, Pelini's coaching background was better and he had more to pitch in this regard (a championship ring, great defensive reputation, decent NFL coaching career). And, this is just a guess, but I'm guessing Pelini's connections were better than Gill's just by nature of Pelini's coaching footprint. I mean, when you're sitting in a home with a recruit, character goes a long way. But, so does the 'what can you do for me' mentality on both sides of the aisle. Just curious on your thoughts here.

Good thoughts - Yes Bo had the ring as DC and could say he coached at some pretty great schools - NU, OU, LSU all pretty good on a recruiter's resume. I still think the character issue is a big draw for the parents. The 'rings' gets the kid's attention, the coach's character and reputation as an individual gets the parent's attention - and they are the ones who 'pay the bills'. While Bo had the rings, Gill could counter that he played for and coached wt a Hall of Fame coach and was a part of national championship teams as an assistant coach (thus he had rings but he wasn't a DC or OC at the time). He could also tell the "Nebraska Story" and sell it better than Bo ever could - because he lived it, was a vital part of it and fully embraced it.

Regarding Kansas - It isn't just Gill. If coaches aren't' given the opportunity beyond 2 years to succeed, Kansas will never improve. Turning something around takes time regardless if it is Gill or Weis. We were concern about firing Solich and Bo after 9 win seasons and wondered if we could get a quality coach - good grief - how can Kansas ever improve & land a quality coach now if they don't give someone time to succeed. The one successful year of Mangino's made big heads out of the Kansas administrators and all of a sudden they thought they were a traditional power.

Fair arguments all around. I think I just personally believe character goes a long way, but, may not always win you the best recruits when it's all said and done. I also know that if Bo or Turner sat in my living and told me all they'd done, I'd probably be more impressed with the guy that helped coach teams to titles rather than played in them. But, that's just me.

I'm mostly in agreement with you about the Gill thing. I see where their line of thinking was with firing him but Kansas is anything but a traditional power on the gridiron. They have better talent in their state than we do but just little interest it seems. I think they should find a guy that's willing to put in the grind work. It may not pay off in the first few years but it may down the road. I think Gill deserved at least three or four seasons. Hell, they were paying him really, really well too. Perhaps that factored into the decision.

Tough to remember because of how long ago and there were no recruiting services, but can anyone recall Turner recruiting big time major contributors while at Nebraska?

I can't recall whether Gill had a hand in recruiting Frazier, Frost or Crouch. But his Husker bio has this to say:

His reputation as an excellent recruiter is also a proven fact. Tom Lemming named Gill to his "other big-time recruiting names," just outside of the top 10 list.

<snip>

Three of Gill’s proteges – Frost (1996-97), Crouch (1998-2001) and Lord (1999-2003), were chosen in the NFL Draft, while Frazier (1992-95) was drafted by the CFL. Gill’s development of excellent quarterbacks is far from his only asset. He is regarded as a strong recruiter, covering Arkansas, Louisiana and northeast Texas. LINK

 

[WalksBehindtheRows]

I told anyone who would listen when Gill took the Kansas job that it is nearly impossible to win there and it will effectively end his chances at ever getting a bigger job.

 

[bhunt7]

Turner took over a Kansas program with sky high expectations from their Orange Bowl appearance in '08. Couple crazy expectations with a team that had just lost 7 straight games, fired their coach, and lost key players like Todd Reesing, Kerry Meier, Desmond Brisqoe, Aqib Talib, James McClinton, Joe Mortensen, Brandon McAnderson and you're destined for a let down.

You can't say Turner ruined Kansas Football. This is the same KU that hasn't had an outright conference title since 1930! They gave Turner 2 years to fix a terrible mess.

Turner's 2 seasons at Kansas really says nothing to what he could have done at Nebraska.

 

[lo country]

Turner would have embraced the fans, sought advice from TO and company, welcomed former players and play well with the media. A win for sure over Bo. Would this have translated to a better record? Who knows.

IMO, Bo's down fall wasn't his attitude. You win a conference or BCS game and want to rant about the fans, go for it. He failed because he surrounded himself with a completely incompetent staff. You don't build a championship or even beat teams with a pulse with the "get along gang". Had Bo gone after proven commodities, attitude or not, he would still be here.

Would Turner have gone after competent guys? I don't know. What he did at Buffalo was pretty remarkable and showed he could coach IMO. He did have NU QB's playing at a higher (better) level than Bo (IMO) which shows development. (I know different systems) But, Turner had the advantage of TO, a proven system, incredible staff and talent for days while coaching at NU so that helped. It again goes back to the staff. A great crew (i.e. Patterson at TCU), Saban etc... and your team does what it does. It wins...... A craptastic staff and you get what you get. Losing seasons, beat downs or only beating teams you are "better" than while losing to teams with a pulse (Bo and Co)

Bad thing is how fractured the fan base would be if Turner came in, tanked and was fired..........

To add, there are some NU guys who could be good on a staff or as a HC (previous experience):

Frost

Rathman

Minter

Gill

Colman

Taylor

 

[Enhance]

Sometimes I wonder just how much the actual pieces of the staff played into successes/failures of the last seven years. Coaches usually hire guys they know to coach - no surprises there. I honestly believe it was more of a systemic failure - a coach that alienates his players and the fan base and doesn't maintain proper structure is bound to breed a team with inconsistencies. We had some good coaches on that staff, but I think the last half-year showed us that this team took on the mentality of their head coach - at times composed, at times hot-headed, at times irrational and at times makes big mistakes. Throw on the reports that meetings didn't started on time and that just shows another red flag.

I think the staff, as a whole, will be seen as a disappointment in Husker history. But, I definitely think, individually, we had some good pieces on that staff. They just didn't work well as a whole and that reflect on the head man in charge.

 

[VectorVictor]

Folks--let's not overlook a key piece to Turner's lack of success at Kansas: that the majority of boosters didn't want him there for one or more reasons, including (but not limited to, but in order of severity):

-He played for Nebraska

-Some boosters thought they settled with Gill/Kansas could get Saban-level talent in Lawrence

-He was African American married to a Caucasian woman (yeah, this came out as an issue during his tenure, sadly)

-They're f****** Kansas football boosters

The former AD Lew Perkins made the unpopular decision to go with Turner Gill. As soon as Perkins was ousted in 2011, the new AD Sheahon Zenger came in and fired Turner Gill after one season. And it didn't help that the Kansas boosters were publicly working against Gill the whole time.

---

So, to answer the OP's question...I think Gill would have done as well as Bo did, probably without the blowout losses, but I agree that he may not have initially sniffed the conference title games.

But I do think Gill would have gotten more support from the boosters and AD than he ever did at Kansas (or that Bo did from DoNU), and Gill would have had more time to grow into being a better coach, which would have paid dividends in the long term.

 

[Born N Bled Red]

Taking the job at kansas before he was ready has really slowed turner's climb up the coaching ladder!

Doesn't taking a job at Kansas do that to every football coach's climb up the ladder?