Line Play - Miami

[Mavric]

An addendum to the above:

Last year we averaged 5.3 yards per rush for the year. That was good enough for us to be #19 in the country in rushing yards per game.

Now, our average (currently 5.4) might - and probably will - go down against some better competition. But it seems that the complaints about our running game are exaggerated.

 

[BigRedBuster]

The only reason I don't like the slow developing outside zone plays is because we don't run them very well for a variety of reasons. I think they can still be extremely effective running plays when executed properly. But, as this still image shows, we have nobody blocking what I believe is the backside defender and T. Newby is light years away from the offensive line. Of the five defenders where the back is running, one of them is almost completely unblocked and #13 is in a prime position to make a tackle, too.

You're going to have to educate me about what is good about a slow developing outside run play that everyone knows is coming.

They work at every level of football when executed properly. Adrian Peterson has made a living off outside zone running plays. Toby Gerhart was a great zone runner at Stanford. A lot of teams that utilize a zone running game have had great success running these plays, but when they look bad, they sometimes look really bad. But, that doesn't mean they're useless plays. Any play looks useless when a team doesn't execute it well.

IMHO Nebraska's problems with it are they haven't blocked them overly well and they don't have a back that can use his speed/vision to hit the hole when they need to. Newby is a very tentative running back therefore he's not hitting the LOS and making a play like he's supposed to.

Now that the weekend is over, I'll get back to this discussion.

I can probably name teams who have had great success with just about every single type of offensive play there is in the world. That doesn't answer my question.

Two things you mentioned.

A) We don't have a back that runs it well. Hmmmm...I guess then I would say I don't like the play.

B) We don't block it well. Which gets to my point. It is a play that really puts the O line at a disadvantage.

Well I think it does answer your question - you wanted to know what's good about them and I pointed out a couple of teams off the top of my head that have had great success running them. And by success I mean offensive output and touchdowns. So, that's what is good about them, in my opinion. Schematically, they're just like any run play - they're designed to exploit a weakness in the defense and have the back burst through the line for a big gain. These plays allow the blocking to get set up.

You also posted a very wide-ranging question insinuating that you don't think these particular plays have any value at all and I disagree with you. They do have value if you can do them well.

Whether or not Nebraska should run them is a different argument and I actually agree with you - I don't think Nebraska runs them well. The point of my post was simply to explain these plays can and do work.

I was mainly looking for more of an Xs and Os or strategy type answer than...."Well, other teams are successful with it".

What weakness would an OC see in the defense that would make him drool thinking about running an outside zone run?

 

[Enhance]

The only reason I don't like the slow developing outside zone plays is because we don't run them very well for a variety of reasons. I think they can still be extremely effective running plays when executed properly. But, as this still image shows, we have nobody blocking what I believe is the backside defender and T. Newby is light years away from the offensive line. Of the five defenders where the back is running, one of them is almost completely unblocked and #13 is in a prime position to make a tackle, too.

You're going to have to educate me about what is good about a slow developing outside run play that everyone knows is coming.

They work at every level of football when executed properly. Adrian Peterson has made a living off outside zone running plays. Toby Gerhart was a great zone runner at Stanford. A lot of teams that utilize a zone running game have had great success running these plays, but when they look bad, they sometimes look really bad. But, that doesn't mean they're useless plays. Any play looks useless when a team doesn't execute it well.

IMHO Nebraska's problems with it are they haven't blocked them overly well and they don't have a back that can use his speed/vision to hit the hole when they need to. Newby is a very tentative running back therefore he's not hitting the LOS and making a play like he's supposed to.

Now that the weekend is over, I'll get back to this discussion.

I can probably name teams who have had great success with just about every single type of offensive play there is in the world. That doesn't answer my question.

Two things you mentioned.

A) We don't have a back that runs it well. Hmmmm...I guess then I would say I don't like the play.

B) We don't block it well. Which gets to my point. It is a play that really puts the O line at a disadvantage.

Well I think it does answer your question - you wanted to know what's good about them and I pointed out a couple of teams off the top of my head that have had great success running them. And by success I mean offensive output and touchdowns. So, that's what is good about them, in my opinion. Schematically, they're just like any run play - they're designed to exploit a weakness in the defense and have the back burst through the line for a big gain. These plays allow the blocking to get set up.

You also posted a very wide-ranging question insinuating that you don't think these particular plays have any value at all and I disagree with you. They do have value if you can do them well.

Whether or not Nebraska should run them is a different argument and I actually agree with you - I don't think Nebraska runs them well. The point of my post was simply to explain these plays can and do work.

I was mainly looking for more of an Xs and Os or strategy type answer than...."Well, other teams are successful with it".

What weakness would an OC see in the defense that would make him drool thinking about running an outside zone run?

This is where I'm going to have to 'stay in my lane', so to speak, as I'm definitely not a schematic expert.

But, from what my eyes see, the strategy is:

1) A different change of pace from a quick-hitting run play.

2) Gives the offensive line time to make blocks and create a crease leading to...

3) the running back having more time to make a read, see the hole and burst through.

Again, this is just my own opinion, but it's kind of the same mentality between a stretch running play and an ISO running play right between the guard and center. One of them is slower developing, but that doesn't make stretch plays any less effective, because they can be. And, again, my eyes tell me that I've seen the slower developing outside zone run plays work. So, that also says to me that people with far more football knowledge than myself find some kind of value in running them.

 

[Mavric]

I don't think that it's a bad play. I don't even mind running it some. But you need to be selective with it. I think we run too much straight zone against seven guys in the box. With no misdirection and not much (if any) of a numbers advantage, your odds are just not great. And particularly on outside zone plays, the line isn't necessarily trying to open a specific hole. They're blocking a direction and letting the RB find where the hole opens up. But if there are seven or eight guys in the box, the defense can fill a lot of gaps.

It's kind of the down side of going with more heavy sets - two TEs, TE/HB or TE/FB. It bunches up your formation and lets the defense play with more guys in the box.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I don't think that it's a bad play. I don't even mind running it some. But you need to be selective with it. I think we run too much straight zone against seven guys in the box. With no misdirection and not much (if any) of a numbers advantage, your odds are just not great. And particularly on outside zone plays, the line isn't necessarily trying to open a specific hole. They're blocking a direction and letting the RB find where the hole opens up. But if there are seven or eight guys in the box, the defense can fill a lot of gaps.

It's kind of the down side of going with more heavy sets - two TEs, TE/HB or TE/FB. It bunches up your formation and lets the defense play with more guys in the box.

Now, I can understand that. If you and the defense spread out and maybe the safeties are back, I can see possibly being able to block an outside zone play much easier.

But, when you have the LOS crowded already and then run outside in a slow to develop manner that doesn't have any misdirection options, I just don't see that being effective most of the time.

 

[Kiyoat Husker]

Maveric, what is your opinion of "Professor Aaron Semm"'s comments about our running backs dancing too much and not getting north-south? Both of you agree that the line play has been much better than advertised.

 

[Mavric]

Maveric, what is your opinion of "Professor Aaron Semm"'s comments about our running backs dancing too much and not getting north-south? Both of you agree that the line play has been much better than advertised.

Definitely agree on that. Too many times trying to find a big play instead of just getting an extra 3-4 yards and trying again next time.

However, it really looked to me like someone really got after Newby about this some time in the late third or early fourth quarter of the Southern Miss game. He seemed to go to the other end of the spectrum - just lower his shoulder and try to run over anyone in the way. Totally different from the first 3.5 games. It was a little overboard but I'm hopeful that someone got their point across and we'll see less dancing this weekend.

 

[Mavric]

Here's what I mean. This is our last possession - right before the missed FG. Newby has three carries in six plays. You can definitely see a different mind-set in his running.




Like I said, that's probably too far the other way. But if he can do a better job of mixing in some lower-the-shoulder runs with the speed that he has, I think it will work well.

 

[Kiyoat Husker]

I see what u mean. Now this offense just needs to knock illinois's defense out of the top 25.