Secondary play...

[lo country]

Not a defense of Banker, BUT teams did not have to pass under Bo.They simply ran through, around and over our teams..... In 4 games, it would appear that we have the same issues except teams with throw all over us. Some one had posted earlier that most teams we have faced this year are currently throwing 10-15% more passing than their season average i.e. MORE passing than run....

With that said, if one judges the drafting of guys to the NFL as another marker of success, Bo and his vaunted pass D doesn't pass that test. Since entering the B1G, we currently have 4 DB's (2 safeties and 2 CB in the league)

Mitchell

Seisay

SJB

Stafford

SJB was a converted WR............

Banker's D is predicated on the DB's (primarily corners) making great reads and being able to play on an island when needed. Per MSU's version, it also requires the CB to play in an aggressive press coverage A LOT. In looking at what guys have gone into the NFL as DB's from Bo, I would say in the Big 12 we had somewhat of a DB pipeline going. Since joining the B1G, not so much IMO.

We are at the chicken and the egg crossroads. We run a scheme we do not have the talent to be successful in, or we ave the talent to be used in a different scheme OR we are simply installing a new scheme that on the surface seems simpler is actually quite intricate and guys are behind the learning curve and against good QB's (just like good RB's under Bo) we are paying for this....

Throw in injured LB's (very important cog in the quarters coverage), a DL incapable of getting pressure on or even to the QB, slow DE (save Freedom) a revolving door at CB in a attempt to find the next Sherman or Reavis and we have a recipe for disaster.

I am willing to give Stewart and Banker the season to show drastic improvement. The next 8 teams we face will give them ample opportunity to showcase this experience and "options" they have available to "fix" things as 4 of the 8 QB's are the top 40 in QB efficiency.......We continue to give up 400 yards per game, then Riley has some decisions to make.

 

[dylan]

Against "good" quarterbacks? So far it seems to be against EVERY quarterback.

And sacrificing a season rather than playing to your players' strengths is not acceptable and not what we were promised.

 

[NUinID]

Against "good" quarterbacks? So far it seems to be against EVERY quarterback.

And sacrificing a season rather than playing to your players' strengths is not acceptable and not what we were promised.

I don't think I ever heard we will play to defensive players strengths. I heard we will play to offensive players strengths. Every QB we have played has been pretty good. Say what ever you want about S. Miss and yes the QB had a really big day, but he was averaging over 300 yards per game before he came into game against NU. So don't say he sucked.

Lets just see how things turn out, and not make judgments about things until they happen.

 

[swmohusker]

Against "good" quarterbacks? So far it seems to be against EVERY quarterback.

And sacrificing a season rather than playing to your players' strengths is not acceptable and not what we were promised.

I don't think I ever heard we will play to defensive players strengths. I heard we will play to offensive players strengths. Every QB we have played has been pretty good. Say what ever you want about S. Miss and yes the QB had a really big day, but he was averaging over 300 yards per game before he came into game against NU. So don't say he sucked.

Lets just see how things turn out, and not make judgments about things until they happen.

South Bama who threw for 320 against us and had a 60 yarder called back threw for like 200 yards against NC state. The WR that tore us up had 1 catch for 0 yards. I would say we make every QB look pretty good right now. Throwing for 450 yards and not abandoning the run till the 4th quarter is pretty bad.

 

[NUinID]

Against "good" quarterbacks? So far it seems to be against EVERY quarterback.

And sacrificing a season rather than playing to your players' strengths is not acceptable and not what we were promised.

I don't think I ever heard we will play to defensive players strengths. I heard we will play to offensive players strengths. Every QB we have played has been pretty good. Say what ever you want about S. Miss and yes the QB had a really big day, but he was averaging over 300 yards per game before he came into game against NU. So don't say he sucked.

Lets just see how things turn out, and not make judgments about things until they happen.

South Bama who threw for 320 against us and had a 60 yarder called back threw for like 200 yards against NC state. The WR that tore us up had 1 catch for 0 yards. I would say we make every QB look pretty good right now. Throwing for 450 yards and not abandoning the run till the 4th quarter is pretty bad.

Yep I will give up 320 passing and 7 points every game. Look all you want to do is be pissed, which is fine. The pass defense isn't good, the only thing they can do as players and coaches is try to get better. But, they aren't going to go from giving up 360 a game, or what ever they are giving up now, to 200 a game which is what so many of you guys that are super upset about this want to happen. Your not going to come in and change everything schematically in one week. So why don't we see what they can do to look better against Illinois and go from there.

 

[swmohusker]

Against "good" quarterbacks? So far it seems to be against EVERY quarterback.

And sacrificing a season rather than playing to your players' strengths is not acceptable and not what we were promised.

I don't think I ever heard we will play to defensive players strengths. I heard we will play to offensive players strengths. Every QB we have played has been pretty good. Say what ever you want about S. Miss and yes the QB had a really big day, but he was averaging over 300 yards per game before he came into game against NU. So don't say he sucked.

Lets just see how things turn out, and not make judgments about things until they happen.

South Bama who threw for 320 against us and had a 60 yarder called back threw for like 200 yards against NC state. The WR that tore us up had 1 catch for 0 yards. I would say we make every QB look pretty good right now. Throwing for 450 yards and not abandoning the run till the 4th quarter is pretty bad.

Yep I will give up 320 passing and 7 points every game. Look all you want to do is be pissed, which is fine. The pass defense isn't good, the only thing they can do as players and coaches is try to get better. But, they aren't going to go from giving up 360 a game, or what ever they are giving up now, to 200 a game which is what so many of you guys that are super upset about this want to happen. Your not going to come in and change everything schematically in one week. So why don't we see what they can do to look better against Illinois and go from there.

Not every qb we have played thus far is great. Actually probably just Hill for a quarter and Kaaya. I agree we need to get better. I dont think the yardage is a huge issu, but it is how the yards come. I would be fine if we gave up around 300 yards a game if the catches were through making the offense earn it and throwing the ball into some tight windows. It is the fact that the yardage is coming in chunk plays were we are out of position that bothers me.

 

[NUinID]

Against "good" quarterbacks? So far it seems to be against EVERY quarterback.

And sacrificing a season rather than playing to your players' strengths is not acceptable and not what we were promised.

I don't think I ever heard we will play to defensive players strengths. I heard we will play to offensive players strengths. Every QB we have played has been pretty good. Say what ever you want about S. Miss and yes the QB had a really big day, but he was averaging over 300 yards per game before he came into game against NU. So don't say he sucked.

Lets just see how things turn out, and not make judgments about things until they happen.

South Bama who threw for 320 against us and had a 60 yarder called back threw for like 200 yards against NC state. The WR that tore us up had 1 catch for 0 yards. I would say we make every QB look pretty good right now. Throwing for 450 yards and not abandoning the run till the 4th quarter is pretty bad.

Yep I will give up 320 passing and 7 points every game. Look all you want to do is be pissed, which is fine. The pass defense isn't good, the only thing they can do as players and coaches is try to get better. But, they aren't going to go from giving up 360 a game, or what ever they are giving up now, to 200 a game which is what so many of you guys that are super upset about this want to happen. Your not going to come in and change everything schematically in one week. So why don't we see what they can do to look better against Illinois and go from there.

Not every qb we have played thus far is great. Actually probably just Hill for a quarter and Kaaya. I agree we need to get better. I dont think the yardage is a huge issu, but it is how the yards come. I would be fine if we gave up around 300 yards a game if the catches were through making the offense earn it and throwing the ball into some tight windows. It is the fact that the yardage is coming in chunk plays were we are out of position that bothers me.

Well that most sense you have made. Except the 1 game you keep referencing is the S. Alabama game where the QB whether you think he is any good or not threw the ball into pretty good coverage on those deep fades during the game and good catches were made. The coverage was pretty tight. You may not believe this but against S. Miss the problem in the 4th had more to do with Linebacker play than the secondary.

Again just wait and see what happens against Illinois before we determine the season is a lost cause.

 

[Mavric]

I'm at a loss here. We went to a different coverage at the end of the Southern Miss game with the safeties playing VERY deep and zone all over the place in front of them. That's how you keep people in front of you, not staying in your base quarters coverage where everyone is trying to cover man-to-man.

NU's defense should have never had to play more than 12 seconds to end the game if the clock is run out correctly.


Still, it was disappointing to see such a good performance turned sour by letting a wide receiver get wide open for a 50-yard pass to set up the game-winning TD.

“I was surprised that somebody got that far behind us in quarters coverage,” Riley said. “I thought we competed pretty hard and made some plays. It took them awhile before they finally got one.”

LJS (emphasis added)

 

[Mavric]

Well now.....

 

[Igetbored216]

The DBs haven't gotten much better. Lunt missed a lot of his receivers, either because he's not very accurate or the wind. I have heard many different things at this point, but does anyone know for sure whether or not they are being taught not to look back and just player the receiver? I remember one player - can't remember who - looking back all game on Saturday, and they ended up making a play on the ball and getting their hands on it in the endzone (I believe it was against Geronimo).

 

[lo country]

Well now.....

And there you have it. Unsure who it was (might have been you Mav) that pointed out that thus far teams playing us are 10-15% more passing than their season average.

 

[True2tRA]

The DBs haven't gotten much better. Lunt missed a lot of his receivers, either because he's not very accurate or the wind. I have heard many different things at this point, but does anyone know for sure whether or not they are being taught not to look back and just player the receiver? I remember one player - can't remember who - looking back all game on Saturday, and they ended up making a play on the ball and getting their hands on it in the endzone (I believe it was against Geronimo).

I don't understand the techniques our DB's are playing with at all.

Letting guys run right by them when in press coverage. Not playing the ball. Not putting hands up. Not getting aggressive or fighting for the ball until the receiver has already made a play on it. No, you can't grab a WR, or pull on them, but you can get your hands active and disrupt the receiver. We are just not very aggressive at all.

People that are blaming Banker are just looking at stats, they're not watching the players execute. It's not like any other teams I see on Saturday, at least not any of the top 25 teams I watch.

 

[4skers89]

The DBs haven't gotten much better. Lunt missed a lot of his receivers, either because he's not very accurate or the wind. I have heard many different things at this point, but does anyone know for sure whether or not they are being taught not to look back and just player the receiver? I remember one player - can't remember who - looking back all game on Saturday, and they ended up making a play on the ball and getting their hands on it in the endzone (I believe it was against Geronimo).

I don't understand the techniques our DB's are playing with at all.

Letting guys run right by them when in press coverage. Not playing the ball. Not putting hands up. Not getting aggressive or fighting for the ball until the receiver has already made a play on it. No, you can't grab a WR, or pull on them, but you can get your hands active and disrupt the receiver. We are just not very aggressive at all.

People that are blaming Banker are just looking at stats, they're not watching the players execute. It's not like any other teams I see on Saturday, at least not any of the top 25 teams I watch.

I don't think we've seen good technique for quite a few years now. I'm starting to wonder if Bo's defense was more about getting people in the right place and less about technique. Due to the number of pass defenders, it worked. The problem we have now is that the scheme actually requires the DB to play with good technique. Things aren't adding up as to how we went from a fairly good pass defense under Bo to going worse in the nation. I don't think Banker's scheme is the problem. It just doesn't compute even when factoring in new scheme with focus on stopping the run and loss of talent. I'm just speculating and trying not to make the obvious conclusion.

 

[True2tRA]

You think they want J. Rose doing this on 3rd and 9?

He plays off and gives the WR the first down, but watch his footwork right as the receiver is making his break. Rose takes a huge step backward, he's clearly afraid of getting beat over the top even though the receiver is still 3 yards in front of him. Rose can't recover from that terrible footwork. He could have easily challenged the receiver in press coverage and if he had any faith in his skills, should have played the man stride for stride and if the WR did go deep, you force the QB to make a tough throw over the top. Instead, it's a pitch and catch, no contact made by the DB on an easy 9 yard-out route.

I think the DB's think if they wave their hands in the "incomplete signal" that maybe it helps.

 

[Saunders]

People that are blaming Banker are just looking at stats, they're not watching the players execute. It's not like any other teams I see on Saturday, at least not any of the top 25 teams I watch.

It's both Banker (coverage) and Stewart (technique).