[Spoilers] Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

[Redux]

They didn't have to kill Han to have Kylo Ren be accepted. Everyone loved Darth Maul because he was a badass in his own right. The biggest mistake of the prequels was killing him off right away.

No, they didn't HAVE to. But they did and I would wager part of the reason was at the urging of Harrison Ford. Kylo Ren already had an evil charm about him, but killing his father cemented him as someone the audience will hate.

Darth Maul was a badass and deserved to live.

 

[Saunders]

They didn't have to kill Han to have Kylo Ren be accepted. Everyone loved Darth Maul because he was a badass in his own right. The biggest mistake of the prequels was killing him off right away.

No, they didn't HAVE to. But they did and I would wager part of the reason was at the urging of Harrison Ford. Kylo Ren already had an evil charm about him, but killing his father cemented him as someone the audience will hate.

Darth Maul was a badass and deserved to live.

Yeah, I guarantee Ford had a huge input in Solo getting killed. He's wanted it since Jedi.

 

[Mierin]

They didn't have to kill Han to have Kylo Ren be accepted. Everyone loved Darth Maul because he was a badass in his own right. The biggest mistake of the prequels was killing him off right away.

No, they didn't HAVE to. But they did and I would wager part of the reason was at the urging of Harrison Ford. Kylo Ren already had an evil charm about him, but killing his father cemented him as someone the audience will hate.

Darth Maul was a badass and deserved to live.

Yeah, I guarantee Ford had a huge input in Solo getting killed. He's wanted it since Jedi.

I don't even think it as urging or input. I think he said point blank "I'll only do the movie if you kill me off."

 

[Redux]

They didn't have to kill Han to have Kylo Ren be accepted. Everyone loved Darth Maul because he was a badass in his own right. The biggest mistake of the prequels was killing him off right away.

No, they didn't HAVE to. But they did and I would wager part of the reason was at the urging of Harrison Ford. Kylo Ren already had an evil charm about him, but killing his father cemented him as someone the audience will hate.

Darth Maul was a badass and deserved to live.

Yeah, I guarantee Ford had a huge input in Solo getting killed. He's wanted it since Jedi.

I don't even think it as urging or input. I think he said point blank "I'll only do the movie if you kill me off."

Pretty much.

 

[Saunders]

They didn't have to kill Han to have Kylo Ren be accepted. Everyone loved Darth Maul because he was a badass in his own right. The biggest mistake of the prequels was killing him off right away.

No, they didn't HAVE to. But they did and I would wager part of the reason was at the urging of Harrison Ford. Kylo Ren already had an evil charm about him, but killing his father cemented him as someone the audience will hate.

Darth Maul was a badass and deserved to live.

Yeah, I guarantee Ford had a huge input in Solo getting killed. He's wanted it since Jedi.

I don't even think it as urging or input. I think he said point blank "I'll only do the movie if you kill me off."

Yeah, I think that's probably it. He did a great job sending Solo off though. I loved Grandpa Han.

 

[Redux]

I had my worries about old Han, but damn he was great.

 

[zoogs]

We're going on nearly 40 years since the original trilogy began, and this is as much a reboot/revisitation as it is a sequel. This is Star Wars (1977) done all over in 2015, with the prequels firmly repudiated into the "what prequels?" forgotten zone. Balancing new and old and fitting the new movies into the same cosmos as the originals was a delicate act. And it was done excellently.

The Han scene, since it's being mentioned, was very powerful. Not surprising, yet completely crushing. His death sets the stage in a way that "the ol' fan favorite, in for a cameo and riding off unscathed into the sunset" could never have done. That this is Han's ultimate fate lends enormous weight to his prior story. There's more to his life and his role in this universe than that spry, wise-cracking gunslinger who gets the girl.

I love that the Force Awakens villains are still in their formative years; the flipped script with Ren praying against the seduction of the light. He (nor Hux, I believe) aren't truly villainous so much as a little bit unhinged and a lot caught up. Ren's desire to be a dark lord far outpaces his ability, and that's far better than another "Hey, look at this guy. He's so evil. I mean, SOOOOO evil. And powerful. Really, really powerful, and evil. Like all those other guys, but MORE powerful and MORE evil." If anyone's ever seen the excellent animated series Avatar: the Last Airbender, there's a real Prince Zuko vibe about Kylo Ren. Only Ren's story might end up differently.

For those primarily looking for "a total sequel about happens next to Luke and company", there's the massive Expanded Universe for that. And (/ducks) that's about as interesting as the typical endlessly sprawl of a comic book/video game universe. I'm sure all the plot developments there are fascinating, new, and worthwhile if you want to dive into it.

 

[Mierin]

So... does Finn have force powers? I'm thinking not. I think he just got lucky and got to use a lightsaber 'cause Rey was away. Just found out today he's British. I think that's part of why I liked his voice so much. I thought he was American but there was something different about it.

 

[zoogs]

I think maybe a "no" on Finn, but something more has to be in store for him...

How much force power does Ren have? It seems to me like he's very high on raw power and potential, but extremely average in skill and training. He's faked it til he made it. Personally, I think Snoke's a big faker, too. The Wizard of Oz. He may have powers, but he's no Sidious, and may be little more than a Dark Side huckster.

Yup.

Also to zoogs point; wasn't Anakin basically the chosen one without a bloodline? As far as we know no one else in his family was force sensitive. Fin can still be that character as well.

In the prequels, he was The Chosen One -- the subject of a Super Big Deal Prophecy.

I guess what I mean is it feels like time for the central hero to do big things without being the Hero Foretold. This line isn't spoken in TFA, but it is from the trailers and I think maybe it paints an accurate picture of Rey for us: "Who are you?" "I'm nobody."

Also, I'm not sure about the canon status of this, but there was some suggestion that Anakin was conceived by the Will of the Force. A no-longer-canon book is explicit about it, but even hints in EP1 (Shmi can't explain how she conceived him without a father) and EP3 (Sidious going on about Plagueis's unnatural force/life experiments) are consistent with the possibility. Even if not, he was definitely Child of Destiny in the prequels.

 

[Mierin]

Yup.

Also to zoogs point; wasn't Anakin basically the chosen one without a bloodline? As far as we know no one else in his family was force sensitive. Fin can still be that character as well.

In the prequels, he was The Chosen One -- the subject of a Super Big Deal Prophecy.

I guess what I mean is it feels like time for the central hero to do big things without being the Hero Foretold. This line isn't spoken in TFA, but it is from the trailers and I think maybe it paints an accurate picture of Rey for us: "Who are you?" "I'm nobody."

Also, I'm not sure about the canon status of this, but there was some suggestion that Anakin was conceived by the Will of the Force, or something bizarre like that. His mother says there was no father, and she couldn't explain it, in EP1. A now no-longer-canon book about Darth Plagueis is more explicit that Plagueis's nefarious efforts resulted (unintentionally) in Anakin's conception. Even if that's not true, he was definitely treated throughout the prequels as the Child of Destiny.

Palpatine eludes to this in one of the best scenes of the prequels when he's at that "play" with Anakin with the creepy music.

"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life. He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying."

It's one of my favorite scenes of the series actually. The setting was great, the Palpatine actor was great and Hayden was fine. Honestly the only badly acted stuff was when he was with Padme.




The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise

Palpatine talking about it like it's some story from history is great. Palpatine is the only one who knows the story. He killed him, within the last 25 years if it's true Plagueis created Anakin.

 

[Redux]

Finn has no force powers, he just got lucky and was able to play with a light saber.

Darth Plagueis could supposedly create life and prevent death. In that regard I always assumed he had a role in Anakin's conception, whether it was random or not really isn't important. Plagueis also likely would have seen his own demise if he was so powerful to prevent death, how did he not prevent it? Maybe he did. If Snoke ends up not being a total fake of an evil lord, what if he is in fact Darth Plagueis? Old canon material suggests he fits the bill.

And the Palpatine/Anakin scene is hands down one of the best from the prequels.

 

[Mierin]

Finn has no force powers, he just got lucky and was able to play with a light saber.

Darth Plagueis could supposedly create life and prevent death. In that regard I always assumed he had a role in Anakin's conception, whether it was random or not really isn't important. Plagueis also likely would have seen his own demise if he was so powerful to prevent death, how did he not prevent it? Maybe he did. If Snoke ends up not being a total fake of an evil lord, what if he is in fact Darth Plagueis? Old canon material suggests he fits the bill.

And the Palpatine/Anakin scene is hands down one of the best from the prequels.

I find this unlikely but they seem to be the same race.

 

[zoogs]

I guess there are two possible extremes to go, with the villains.

After the extremely powerful and sinister Emperor of the prequels, they could go with The Even Badder Dude Behind Everything, or all the way down to a pretender affecting it all. I'm not a huge fan of the former just because there's surely a limit to how many plausible levels you can go with that one, and I don't think it's necessary for a story. The heroes defeat the Ultimate Evil, only to have to defeat the Ultimate, Ultimate Evil later? This is the Final Ultimate, right?...

It would also make this new series dundundunDUN, it was Darth Plagueis!...which could be really cool, I suppose, or a letdown. It seems like too little new discovery to me. Also, too much of building the arc on foundation laid by the prequels.

 

[Redux]

I'm just glad they didn't roll with the Palpatine Clone body he just jumps into when killed. Yeah you may have cut me in half but.......BOOM NEW BODY LUKE! COME AT ME SUCKA!

Snoke says Ren is to come complete his trainining, so he must be more powerful than a fake would be? Maybe he is just the face in front of the real evil and we have yet to meet/discover who really controls the first order.

 

[Saunders]

For those primarily looking for "a total sequel about happens next to Luke and company", there's the massive Expanded Universe for that. And (/ducks) that's about as interesting as the typical endlessly sprawl of a comic book/video game universe. I'm sure all the plot developments there are fascinating, new, and worthwhile if you want to dive into it.

The EU is no more though...