Collins Declares for NFL

[StPaulHusker]

To me, the key question is whether you'd be an undrafted FA or a top 3 rounder.

In some ways, it's better to enter the league as a FA, with the flexibility to sign where the fit is right, rather than getting draft by a team that may have just grabbed you because you were the top athlete/prospect left on their late rounds board (but not necessarily a great fit on the depth chart).

Also, a RBs considerations are much different than a lineman's. Signing up a 4 year contract at RB (which covers more than the average length of an RB's NFL career) is smart business. For a lineman, you might want to go as a F/A or sign a shorter deal where you can re-up or move sooner for more money after proving your worth after a year or two against NFL competition. For comparison RBs last on average 3.1 years. DL and OL about 4.1.

So while signing a 4-year deal worth $4mm is good for AA, it might be better for VV to take an initially lower value and shorter contract (say 2 years for $1mm) and then sign a bigger contract in year 3 (say 4 years at $2m per year).

Anyway, it doesn't sound like VV can make a "bad" decision here. So should be interesting to see what he ends up doing.

So you are saying it is better to be an un-drafted free agent with NO guaranteed money than sign a 4 year deal? Plus the rookie contracts are set. AA got the deal he got because of WHERE he was drafted. Not the position he plays.

 

[ColoradoHusk]

We went from #77 in the country in rush defense with a 4.7 yard average and 23 TDs to #7 rush defense with 3.7 yard average and 17 TDs.

6-7 vs. 9-4

Nobody should be happy or satisfied by being on a losing team. I don't know if Valentine is unhappy with his coach, and if he is, why, but lack of success always breeds discontent and "woulda, shoulda, coulda" talk and thinking.

Anyhow, Valentine has a degree in his back pocket, what is left for him here at Nebraska? (from his perspective, not that of a Nebraska fan)

This!!! Valentine can go pro, prove his worth and get a nice, fat contract in 3-4 years. What is left for him to do at NU? Play and risk another injury on a 8-4 or 9-3 team that doesn't do anything meaningful?

He has an opportunity to train for free and improve his draft stock. That might be worth something.

Improving a draft stock doesn't mean too much any more with the current rookie contracts. His training might be free, but it would be part-time. He would be able to focus on training full-time and team interview for the next 4 months.

I don't know about that. Abdullah, as a second round pick, signed for about $1 million per season. An undrafted FA gets $435,000. That's a big jump.

To me and you that's a big jump. But, in terms of NFL salaries, if you aren't a first round pick, it's all pretty much the same.

 

[cm husker]

To me, the key question is whether you'd be an undrafted FA or a top 3 rounder.

In some ways, it's better to enter the league as a FA, with the flexibility to sign where the fit is right, rather than getting draft by a team that may have just grabbed you because you were the top athlete/prospect left on their late rounds board (but not necessarily a great fit on the depth chart).

Also, a RBs considerations are much different than a lineman's. Signing up a 4 year contract at RB (which covers more than the average length of an RB's NFL career) is smart business. For a lineman, you might want to go as a F/A or sign a shorter deal where you can re-up or move sooner for more money after proving your worth after a year or two against NFL competition. For comparison RBs last on average 3.1 years. DL and OL about 4.1.

So while signing a 4-year deal worth $4mm is good for AA, it might be better for VV to take an initially lower value and shorter contract (say 2 years for $1mm) and then sign a bigger contract in year 3 (say 4 years at $2m per year).

Anyway, it doesn't sound like VV can make a "bad" decision here. So should be interesting to see what he ends up doing.

So you are saying it is better to be an un-drafted free agent with NO guaranteed money than sign a 4 year deal? Plus the rookie contracts are set. AA got the deal he got because of WHERE he was drafted. Not the position he plays.

I didn't say he got the money because of his position. I said considering the length and types of contracts available at a draft position should be done in light of what position the potential draftee plays.

I also said that if you aren't a top 3 (or really top 2) round prospect, then you shouldn't worry about going as a drafted player or undrafted, as the last three rounds of the NFL draft offer very little difference in money from UAs. So really, if a player gets a report that he's a 5th rounder, he should probably go, even if that means he may not be drafted, unless he thinks a senior year could actually move him into the 2nd round. Otherwise, you lose out on a year of earnings, risk injury and are that much more delayed in signing your second (and more lucrative) contract.

Do you think that his $4.1M over 4-years is guaranteed?

 

[BigRedBuster]

We went from #77 in the country in rush defense with a 4.7 yard average and 23 TDs to #7 rush defense with 3.7 yard average and 17 TDs.

6-7 vs. 9-4

Nobody should be happy or satisfied by being on a losing team. I don't know if Valentine is unhappy with his coach, and if he is, why, but lack of success always breeds discontent and "woulda, shoulda, coulda" talk and thinking.

Anyhow, Valentine has a degree in his back pocket, what is left for him here at Nebraska? (from his perspective, not that of a Nebraska fan)

This!!! Valentine can go pro, prove his worth and get a nice, fat contract in 3-4 years. What is left for him to do at NU? Play and risk another injury on a 8-4 or 9-3 team that doesn't do anything meaningful?

He has an opportunity to train for free and improve his draft stock. That might be worth something.

Improving a draft stock doesn't mean too much any more with the current rookie contracts. His training might be free, but it would be part-time. He would be able to focus on training full-time and team interview for the next 4 months.

I don't know about that. Abdullah, as a second round pick, signed for about $1 million per season. An undrafted FA gets $435,000. That's a big jump.

To me and you that's a big jump. But, in terms of NFL salaries, if you aren't a first round pick, it's all pretty much the same.

Really??? for a kid coming out of college $565,000 is no big deal?

Especially is he is a late round or FA, the chances of him having a long career are drastically reduced. Yes, he could catch on and have a great career. But, the later you go, the less likely that is. If he is being told $565,000 is no big deal....wow......

 

[ColoradoHusk]

We went from #77 in the country in rush defense with a 4.7 yard average and 23 TDs to #7 rush defense with 3.7 yard average and 17 TDs.

6-7 vs. 9-4

Nobody should be happy or satisfied by being on a losing team. I don't know if Valentine is unhappy with his coach, and if he is, why, but lack of success always breeds discontent and "woulda, shoulda, coulda" talk and thinking.

Anyhow, Valentine has a degree in his back pocket, what is left for him here at Nebraska? (from his perspective, not that of a Nebraska fan)

This!!! Valentine can go pro, prove his worth and get a nice, fat contract in 3-4 years. What is left for him to do at NU? Play and risk another injury on a 8-4 or 9-3 team that doesn't do anything meaningful?

He has an opportunity to train for free and improve his draft stock. That might be worth something.

Improving a draft stock doesn't mean too much any more with the current rookie contracts. His training might be free, but it would be part-time. He would be able to focus on training full-time and team interview for the next 4 months.

I don't know about that. Abdullah, as a second round pick, signed for about $1 million per season. An undrafted FA gets $435,000. That's a big jump.

To me and you that's a big jump. But, in terms of NFL salaries, if you aren't a first round pick, it's all pretty much the same.

Really??? for a kid coming out of college $565,000 is no big deal?

Especially is he is a late round or FA, the chances of him having a long career are drastically reduced. Yes, he could catch on and have a great career. But, the later you go, the less likely that is. If he is being told $565,000 is no big deal....wow......

It's all relative. Here is what VV is probably thinking. Come out for the draft this year, get a 3-4 year deal worth $700-800K per year. Make a good living, and bust his a$$ to do well in his first few years. After the rookie contract is done, sign a better contract for multi-million dollars with guaranteed $, and get a nice signing bonus. Or he could come back to NU when he doesn't need the education, with a coaching staff that he doesn't see eye to eye on, and he could tear up a knee and there is no NFL future.

Look, it would be great if VV came back, but I don't get the thinking that it's a "no-brainer" to come back to NU for his final year of eligibility. People go to college to get a degree and get a job. VV has his degree, and could get one of the best paying jobs in the country in a few short months.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I never said it was a nobrainer. Not sure who did.

 

[StPaulHusker]

To me, the key question is whether you'd be an undrafted FA or a top 3 rounder.

In some ways, it's better to enter the league as a FA, with the flexibility to sign where the fit is right, rather than getting draft by a team that may have just grabbed you because you were the top athlete/prospect left on their late rounds board (but not necessarily a great fit on the depth chart).

Also, a RBs considerations are much different than a lineman's. Signing up a 4 year contract at RB (which covers more than the average length of an RB's NFL career) is smart business. For a lineman, you might want to go as a F/A or sign a shorter deal where you can re-up or move sooner for more money after proving your worth after a year or two against NFL competition. For comparison RBs last on average 3.1 years. DL and OL about 4.1.

So while signing a 4-year deal worth $4mm is good for AA, it might be better for VV to take an initially lower value and shorter contract (say 2 years for $1mm) and then sign a bigger contract in year 3 (say 4 years at $2m per year).

Anyway, it doesn't sound like VV can make a "bad" decision here. So should be interesting to see what he ends up doing.

So you are saying it is better to be an un-drafted free agent with NO guaranteed money than sign a 4 year deal? Plus the rookie contracts are set. AA got the deal he got because of WHERE he was drafted. Not the position he plays.

I didn't say he got the money because of his position. I said considering the length and types of contracts available at a draft position should be done in light of what position the potential draftee plays.

I also said that if you aren't a top 3 (or really top 2) round prospect, then you shouldn't worry about going as a drafted player or undrafted, as the last three rounds of the NFL draft offer very little difference in money from UAs. So really, if a player gets a report that he's a 5th rounder, he should probably go, even if that means he may not be drafted, unless he thinks a senior year could actually move him into the 2nd round. Otherwise, you lose out on a year of earnings, risk injury and are that much more delayed in signing your second (and more lucrative) contract.

Do you think that his $4.1M over 4-years is guaranteed?

$2.2 million is

http://overthecap.com/player/ameer-abdullah/3902/

 

[cm husker]

We went from #77 in the country in rush defense with a 4.7 yard average and 23 TDs to #7 rush defense with 3.7 yard average and 17 TDs.

6-7 vs. 9-4

Nobody should be happy or satisfied by being on a losing team. I don't know if Valentine is unhappy with his coach, and if he is, why, but lack of success always breeds discontent and "woulda, shoulda, coulda" talk and thinking.

Anyhow, Valentine has a degree in his back pocket, what is left for him here at Nebraska? (from his perspective, not that of a Nebraska fan)

This!!! Valentine can go pro, prove his worth and get a nice, fat contract in 3-4 years. What is left for him to do at NU? Play and risk another injury on a 8-4 or 9-3 team that doesn't do anything meaningful?

He has an opportunity to train for free and improve his draft stock. That might be worth something.

Improving a draft stock doesn't mean too much any more with the current rookie contracts. His training might be free, but it would be part-time. He would be able to focus on training full-time and team interview for the next 4 months.

I don't know about that. Abdullah, as a second round pick, signed for about $1 million per season. An undrafted FA gets $435,000. That's a big jump.

To me and you that's a big jump. But, in terms of NFL salaries, if you aren't a first round pick, it's all pretty much the same.

Really??? for a kid coming out of college $565,000 is no big deal?

Especially is he is a late round or FA, the chances of him having a long career are drastically reduced. Yes, he could catch on and have a great career. But, the later you go, the less likely that is. If he is being told $565,000 is no big deal....wow......

Playing the hypo that he got a report that guaged him between the 5th Round and Free Agency, what are the realistic chances of him going from a 5th round pick to a second round pick, I wonder? At the DT position, I bet not that great. Would be a really interesting stat to track, because it would help these kids make much more informed decisions.

He might be better served to get into the workforce this year, earn his $435k and be eligible for that second contract a year sooner (2018) rather than gamble on moving up for just one extra year and the restriction on signing a bigger contract until 2020.

The real downside to going early and risking being undrafted is to lose out on signing money. Per Ameer's contract and also the recent comparison in the following article, it looks like a 2nd rounder gets about $1.2m in guaranteed money, a 5th rounder almost $170k, and a undrafted FA almost none. Still, that weighs against the risks in giving up the chance at the immediate $435k salary and the possibility that a player won't improve (and may actually decrease) his draft value by returning to college.

[SIZE=14.6667px]This is an interesting read on some of the dynamics: [/SIZE]http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2015/05/nfl_draft_2015_whats_the_difference_between_an_und.html

That article reveals how price controls on salaries can create all sorts of distortions and perverse incentives.

 

[cm husker]

To me, the key question is whether you'd be an undrafted FA or a top 3 rounder.

In some ways, it's better to enter the league as a FA, with the flexibility to sign where the fit is right, rather than getting draft by a team that may have just grabbed you because you were the top athlete/prospect left on their late rounds board (but not necessarily a great fit on the depth chart).

Also, a RBs considerations are much different than a lineman's. Signing up a 4 year contract at RB (which covers more than the average length of an RB's NFL career) is smart business. For a lineman, you might want to go as a F/A or sign a shorter deal where you can re-up or move sooner for more money after proving your worth after a year or two against NFL competition. For comparison RBs last on average 3.1 years. DL and OL about 4.1.

So while signing a 4-year deal worth $4mm is good for AA, it might be better for VV to take an initially lower value and shorter contract (say 2 years for $1mm) and then sign a bigger contract in year 3 (say 4 years at $2m per year).

Anyway, it doesn't sound like VV can make a "bad" decision here. So should be interesting to see what he ends up doing.

So you are saying it is better to be an un-drafted free agent with NO guaranteed money than sign a 4 year deal? Plus the rookie contracts are set. AA got the deal he got because of WHERE he was drafted. Not the position he plays.

I didn't say he got the money because of his position. I said considering the length and types of contracts available at a draft position should be done in light of what position the potential draftee plays.

I also said that if you aren't a top 3 (or really top 2) round prospect, then you shouldn't worry about going as a drafted player or undrafted, as the last three rounds of the NFL draft offer very little difference in money from UAs. So really, if a player gets a report that he's a 5th rounder, he should probably go, even if that means he may not be drafted, unless he thinks a senior year could actually move him into the 2nd round. Otherwise, you lose out on a year of earnings, risk injury and are that much more delayed in signing your second (and more lucrative) contract.

Do you think that his $4.1M over 4-years is guaranteed?

$2.2 million is

http://overthecap.com/player/ameer-abdullah/3902/

Check your math.

 

[cm husker]

I never said it was a nobrainer. Not sure who did.

I have seen people say he'd be stupid to not come back if he's not a top 2 rounder.

I've also seen people claim that the only reason he wouldn't come back (if he's not projected as top 2 or 3 rounds) is that he has bad blood with coaches.

I don't think there's much basis for either of those claims (and I'm not attributing either two you).

 

[StPaulHusker]

To me, the key question is whether you'd be an undrafted FA or a top 3 rounder.

In some ways, it's better to enter the league as a FA, with the flexibility to sign where the fit is right, rather than getting draft by a team that may have just grabbed you because you were the top athlete/prospect left on their late rounds board (but not necessarily a great fit on the depth chart).

Also, a RBs considerations are much different than a lineman's. Signing up a 4 year contract at RB (which covers more than the average length of an RB's NFL career) is smart business. For a lineman, you might want to go as a F/A or sign a shorter deal where you can re-up or move sooner for more money after proving your worth after a year or two against NFL competition. For comparison RBs last on average 3.1 years. DL and OL about 4.1.

So while signing a 4-year deal worth $4mm is good for AA, it might be better for VV to take an initially lower value and shorter contract (say 2 years for $1mm) and then sign a bigger contract in year 3 (say 4 years at $2m per year).

Anyway, it doesn't sound like VV can make a "bad" decision here. So should be interesting to see what he ends up doing.

So you are saying it is better to be an un-drafted free agent with NO guaranteed money than sign a 4 year deal? Plus the rookie contracts are set. AA got the deal he got because of WHERE he was drafted. Not the position he plays.

I didn't say he got the money because of his position. I said considering the length and types of contracts available at a draft position should be done in light of what position the potential draftee plays.

I also said that if you aren't a top 3 (or really top 2) round prospect, then you shouldn't worry about going as a drafted player or undrafted, as the last three rounds of the NFL draft offer very little difference in money from UAs. So really, if a player gets a report that he's a 5th rounder, he should probably go, even if that means he may not be drafted, unless he thinks a senior year could actually move him into the 2nd round. Otherwise, you lose out on a year of earnings, risk injury and are that much more delayed in signing your second (and more lucrative) contract.

Do you think that his $4.1M over 4-years is guaranteed?

$2.2 million is

http://overthecap.com/player/ameer-abdullah/3902/

Check your math.

You're right. It's $2.3 million. Not $2.2

Total Value: $4,156,126 (avg. $1,039,032/year; $2,291,551 fully guaranteed)

 

[BigRedBuster]

I never said it was a nobrainer. Not sure who did.

I have seen people say he'd be stupid to not come back if he's not a top 2 rounder.

I've also seen people claim that the only reason he wouldn't come back (if he's not projected as top 2 or 3 rounds) is that he has bad blood with coaches.

I don't think there's much basis for either of those claims (and I'm not attributing either two you).

This is the one claim that makes absolutely zero sense to me. Sure, he might not like his coach. But, he damn well better really feel like he has a shot at making a team or he is throwing away an opportunity. He has one shot at this. If he screws it up, I hope he took his degree seriously.

This isn't like you quitting your job because you don't like your boss and you know you can some day find a job somewhere else.

 

[Landlord]

Vincent just has sour grapes that none of the coaching staff gave him Valentine's cards with little candies.

I'll see myself out.

 

[ColoradoHusk]

Vincent just has sour grapes that none of the coaching staff gave him Valentine's cards with little candies.

I'll see myself out.

 

[cm husker]

To me, the key question is whether you'd be an undrafted FA or a top 3 rounder.

In some ways, it's better to enter the league as a FA, with the flexibility to sign where the fit is right, rather than getting draft by a team that may have just grabbed you because you were the top athlete/prospect left on their late rounds board (but not necessarily a great fit on the depth chart).

Also, a RBs considerations are much different than a lineman's. Signing up a 4 year contract at RB (which covers more than the average length of an RB's NFL career) is smart business. For a lineman, you might want to go as a F/A or sign a shorter deal where you can re-up or move sooner for more money after proving your worth after a year or two against NFL competition. For comparison RBs last on average 3.1 years. DL and OL about 4.1.

So while signing a 4-year deal worth $4mm is good for AA, it might be better for VV to take an initially lower value and shorter contract (say 2 years for $1mm) and then sign a bigger contract in year 3 (say 4 years at $2m per year).

Anyway, it doesn't sound like VV can make a "bad" decision here. So should be interesting to see what he ends up doing.

So you are saying it is better to be an un-drafted free agent with NO guaranteed money than sign a 4 year deal? Plus the rookie contracts are set. AA got the deal he got because of WHERE he was drafted. Not the position he plays.

I didn't say he got the money because of his position. I said considering the length and types of contracts available at a draft position should be done in light of what position the potential draftee plays.

I also said that if you aren't a top 3 (or really top 2) round prospect, then you shouldn't worry about going as a drafted player or undrafted, as the last three rounds of the NFL draft offer very little difference in money from UAs. So really, if a player gets a report that he's a 5th rounder, he should probably go, even if that means he may not be drafted, unless he thinks a senior year could actually move him into the 2nd round. Otherwise, you lose out on a year of earnings, risk injury and are that much more delayed in signing your second (and more lucrative) contract.

Do you think that his $4.1M over 4-years is guaranteed?

$2.2 million is

http://overthecap.com/player/ameer-abdullah/3902/

Check your math.

You're right. It's $2.3 million. Not $2.2

Total Value: $4,156,126 (avg. $1,039,032/year; $2,291,551 fully guaranteed)

Your link is playing loose with some terms. That's a little north of $1 million in guaranteed (if actually guaranteed, which normally it often isn't even when reported that way).

That's why most people only talk about signing bonuses when comparing "guaranteed" money across contracts. But if you want to include "guaranteed" base salary, then an apples to apples comparison should include the first year salary of an undrafted FA as "guaranteed" also.

So we are back at the same spot where a 2nd rounder is guaranteed about 1.5m where the undrafted FA is guaranteed almost nothing.