OWH: Five Hearts, Two Stars - A Look at Husker Recruiting

I think the one thing that get's overlooked in the FCS programs and how they impact Nebraska. A lot of decent kids use to choose between walking at Nebraska or getting 1/4 schollie to UNO, NWMS or UNK.

They can now get a full schollie to 2 schools in North Dakota, 2 in south Dakota. Not to mention Ohio, Iowa and Wyoming have pulled kids out of Nebraska. I would say it is unlikely that many of these kids would be starters, but there is no doubt they could have provided depth.

 
Can we please, please stop the ridiculous argument that a run-first offense requires less talented players?

Including all those guys we need to play defense?

If you think we should "swallow our pride" because a good quarterback will never come to Lincoln, then we've already lost our pride.

Jesus.

 
Can we please, please stop the ridiculous argument that a run-first offense requires less talented players?

Including all those guys we need to play defense?

If you think we should "swallow our pride" because a good quarterback will never come to Lincoln, then we've already lost our pride.

Jesus.
Don't let those straw men catch fire.

By the way, you never answered the very fundamental question I once poised: why did TO shift to and continues to believe in the type of offense he chose for NU?

I'd submit that it's because of what he understood about the type of players that could be reliably recruited to NU and what type of system those types of players could reliably execute, year in and year out. I don't see that those basically realities have changed much for NU.

What's your theory?

 
Reliably recruited to NU? Osborne took advantage of partial qualifiers and NU being on TV more often than other schools. He could also get a lot of walk-ons who will now just go somewhere else. All of those advantages are gone.

 
Like so much "analysis" based on recruiting rankings, this article lacks context (and builds a pretty healthy straw man).

1. It seems to imply that NU is foregoing "elite talent" for a "diamond in the rough" model. Obviously no coach at NU has ever recruited with that goal in mind. But the reality is, NU does need to run a system that can wring more production/wins out of "lesser talent" than its better situated contemporaries.

For many years, NU did that. Because no one can tell me that Nebraska native talent was significantly better in the 70s through 90s than it is now. We just had coaches who knew how to win.

2. It implies that NU is different than most other P5 teams in its apptoach to recruiting. The reality it is most teams are in a position where they need to take "flyers" on lower rated kids.

3. Any article based on the arbitrary distinction between a 5.5 and 5.6 player is misguided. Rivals, and none of the other services, are that sophisticated, especially after rating the top 200/300 players in the country. You have untrained bloggers basically rating these kids, either off of an eyeball test or some list of reported offers (which is often inaccurate). Using the recruiting rankings as anything more than liner in a birdcage gives them too much credit.

Bottom line: this roster has talent capable of being a top 25 (or better) team. Just like about 50 or 60 other teams in the country.

It's coaching that will sort out whether they finish as highly ranked as they could.

NU as a program has had a top 25 level of talent for the past decade, and we'll probably have about the same level of talent on average over the next decade.
I really don't know what to think of the bolded part. When and who was the last RB out of Omaha that was a major contributor? I can't speak for all of Nebraska, but here in SW NE the talent simply isn't there anymore. I've been to several high schools and have seen their track record boards. There really hasn't been any new records since about 2000 at most of the area high schools. The teams that were winning state championships back then in football are now lucky to win three games a season. I really do question that we have the in-state talent we did a decade or two ago.
Someone from these boards ruminated a long time ago that the continual exodus of younger folks from the state would start showing up in athletics at some point. Looks like that may have a role in this?

 
Kenzo Cotton just broke the state 100m record a few years ago. I think Doss had it for 20-25 years. There isn't a loss of speed in the state.

I wonder if your Calvin Strong or Jordan Nelson would be your Ken Clark or Clinton Childs back in the day. I actually think that a QB like Bronson Marsh could have been a starter in the 90s.

The Internet, as well as budgets/big money, have made the huge sandbox a lot smaller.

 
Can we please, please stop the ridiculous argument that a run-first offense requires less talented players?

Including all those guys we need to play defense?

If you think we should "swallow our pride" because a good quarterback will never come to Lincoln, then we've already lost our pride.

Jesus.
Don't let those straw men catch fire.

By the way, you never answered the very fundamental question I once poised: why did TO shift to and continues to believe in the type of offense he chose for NU?

I'd submit that it's because of what he understood about the type of players that could be reliably recruited to NU and what type of system those types of players could reliably execute, year in and year out. I don't see that those basically realities have changed much for NU.

What's your theory?
Dude, I answered your very fundamental question immediately and specifically when you first posted it. Go back and look.

I don't have a "theory" as much as I have a fact: Tom Osborne kept getting his a$$ kicked by Oklahoma's Wishbone Offense in the 1970s, and decided to adopt and adapt it for himself.

The "type" of players he would need to run the precision option rushing attack were outstanding offensive linemen, great running backs, tight ends able to both block and catch, and highly recruited wide receivers willing to accept a lesser role on a team that regularly played on national TV, attracted NFL scouts and played in major bowl games.

The wild card was the running quarterback. There were plenty of them in high school, but few colleges let them stay at the position. Nebraska and Oklahoma could make them stars, but they had to bring the talent. Option quarterbacks had to be every bit the split-second decision makers that passing quarterbacks are, but they also had to be at least semi-competent passers and able to take open field hits from linebackers. You might have had less recruiting competition for Tommie Frazier, but you also had few Tommie Frazier's out there, and plenty of advisers correctly reminding them their only path to the NFL was to change positions. To suggest the offensive scheme removed the premium on talent is ludicrous.

Like those 1970s Oklahoma teams, Tom would also need to recruit and maintain the highest levels of defensive talent, because defenses win championships. By Tom's own admission, the 1990s dynasty was a result of changing his defensive recruiting scheme, in which Nebraska targeted and recruited speedy blue chip defensive talent wherever it was, even in another powerhouse's back yard. Near as I can tell he didn't swallow his pride and recruit slower, less-talented defensive players because that's all Nebraska could get.

If you know anything about Tom Osborne, you know that he evolved and adapted with the times. He believes in the offense he chose because it won him three NCs in four years. Which came after 20 years of honing and recruiting. He has said (it was cited somewhere here on HuskerBoard) that he's not sure if the same offense would work as well in today's college football, which has become bigger, faster and more competitive in general. Maybe it would. But it's hardly a no brainer, otherwise more schools would be doing it.

No offense to Navy, but after a careful review of their schedule, it's not hard to see them going 6-7 if they played in the Big 10.

Tom Osborne's most recent views are that he'd like to see more commitment to the running game, and maintain more of the threat in today's dual threat quarterback.

Good advice. But not necessarily a call to swallow our pride, accept our fate, and recruit for a vintage option offense that is anything but simple to perfect.

It's easy to see Tom Osborne's hand in any number of offenses being run today, not just the Georgia Tech's and Navy's.

Now could you bookmark this so I don't have to keep running you through it?

 
You claim that switched to the wishbone because of Oklahoma. When he was "getting his a$$ kicked" by Floridian and other southern schools, did he switch to their offenses too? No. He doubled down on his approach to option based football.

And TO simply has never said he doesn't think his offenses would have less of a chance against "bigger faster stronger D's" of today. If you can produce that quote, I'll take a week off of the board.

The point isn't that navy, with its 70+ talent, could win the B10. It's that they are far more competitive with that level of talent running what they run than they would being "balanced." Same with how Nebraska was with its 30 or so talent in all those years they were 9-3. But, just like Navy this year, when the talent fell into place, NU won and won big. I don't think with the system Riley is trying to install, NU will ever be able to produce consistent results. Because i don't think NU will ever be able to recruit to it consistently.

 
You claim that switched to the wishbone because of Oklahoma. When he was "getting his a$$ kicked" by Floridian and other southern schools, did he switch to their offenses too? No. He doubled down on his approach to option based football.

And TO simply has never said he doesn't think his offenses would have less of a chance against "bigger faster stronger D's" of today. If you can produce that quote, I'll take a week off of the board.

The point isn't that navy, with its 70+ talent, could win the B10. It's that they are far more competitive with that level of talent running what they run than they would being "balanced." Same with how Nebraska was with its 30 or so talent in all those years they were 9-3. But, just like Navy this year, when the talent fell into place, NU won and won big. I don't think with the system Riley is trying to install, NU will ever be able to produce consistent results. Because i don't think NU will ever be able to recruit to it consistently.
This resulted in a switch in defense. He consulted Bobby Bowden at the time and Bowden told him he needs more speed on defense.

He took wishbone concepts from Oklahoma because he couldn't stop it and wanted the same success.

 
You claim that switched to the wishbone because of Oklahoma. When he was "getting his a$$ kicked" by Floridian and other southern schools, did he switch to their offenses too? No. He doubled down on his approach to option based football.

And TO simply has never said he doesn't think his offenses would have less of a chance against "bigger faster stronger D's" of today. If you can produce that quote, I'll take a week off of the board.

The point isn't that navy, with its 70+ talent, could win the B10. It's that they are far more competitive with that level of talent running what they run than they would being "balanced." Same with how Nebraska was with its 30 or so talent in all those years they were 9-3. But, just like Navy this year, when the talent fell into place, NU won and won big. I don't think with the system Riley is trying to install, NU will ever be able to produce consistent results. Because i don't think NU will ever be able to recruit to it consistently.
This resulted in a switch in defense. He consulted Bobby Bowden at the time and Bowden told him he needs more speed on defense.

He took wishbone concepts from Oklahoma because he couldn't stop it and wanted the same success.
Exactly, although those two decisions were a decade apart.

 
The whole notion that TO decided to recruit more speed on D is overblown and or misstated and misunderstood. NU always tried to recruit the biggest, fastest playmakers that they could for the defense.

The change at the end of the 80s was schematic. Not a change in recruiting philosophy. And why did he make the change? Because he thought that style (and one less lineman) gave NU the best chance to win.

He was right.

 
So we can take Tom Osborne at his word when he agrees with you, and ignore him when he doesn't?

I'm still missing the part where Tom Osborne's players didn't have to be as good as other recruits, because the scheme covered their weaknesses. Nebraska always went after great high school football players, and was always competing with teams that ran a different offensive scheme than ours. The ability to coach up and recondition second tier recruits is most definitely about good coaching but hardly limited to the power option scheme. Under Osborne, Nebraska was the haves, not the have-nots. You seem to forget that.

I think you're getting all twisted up about a single player -- the pro style passing quarterback -- as if he will define our entire recruiting effort.

It's hard to land the next Aaron Rodgers. It's hard to land the next Tommie Frazier. So most teams land somewhere in the middle. If "consistent winning" is your thing, you want to study the consistent winners in college football over the last few years. They were led by quarterbacks who could run a "balanced" offense in a scheme that didn't put quotation marks around the word "balanced" because only a fervent segment of Nebraska fans considers "balance" to be something ironic, inaccurate or doomed to failure.

If your dream came true and Nebraska went back to the Osborne option attack tomorrow, I think it would be a much longer transition than the tweaking and talent it would take for last season's Nebraska team to really come into its own: fewer, more accurate passes, a dialed in Tommy Armstrong, a healthy DPE returning punts, a worthy featured running back, a defense that gives up fewer than 28 points a game, etc.

If we swallowed our pride and went all in on the option, after a couple seasons, if all went well, Nebraska could be the next Georgia Tech. Which then went 3-9 this season. So much for consistency. Georgia Tech's problem was either its scheme or its talent level, either of which mucks up your theory.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think Nebraska can do better than Navy, too.

 
All I know is that a large % of his major contributors were from Nebraska. I don't think NE used to be a major hot bed of recruiting that has since dried up, so scheme must have had a lot to do with "closing the talent gap."

Provide a quote and I'll take his word for it. Right now, you're asking us to just rely on yours.

And I think NU can do better than a worn out pass oriented system that wants to be like the pros but could never be for myriad reasons.

 
And I think NU can do better than a worn out pass oriented system that wants to be like the pros but could never be for myriad reasons.
How about a fresh-faced running and passing oriented system that wants to be like the other successful college football programs, and can be, perhaps as soon as next year, Mr. Crabby Pants?

 
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