Rate Patrick O'Brien's performance

[Landlord]

We aren't talking about how well they eventually did. We are talking about how well they did that first season, and lynch, for example, threw more interceptions than touchdowns.

and we're talking about tons of examples of redshirt or true freshman quarterbacks over the last decade that played very good to great in their first years

Sam Bradford, Marcus Mariota, Colt McCoy, Johnny Manziel, Jameis Winston, Josh Rosen, Braxton Miler, J.T. Barrett, Jake Browning, Terrell Pryor, Robert Griffin III, Taylor Martinez, Kellen Moore, Jared Goff, Christian Hackenburg, Baker Mayfield, Matt Barkley, Wes Lunt, Brett Hundley, do you need more? Not all pro style, admittedly, but almost all were accomplished throwers, and all of them played better as freshmen than we have had for quarterback play in the last several years.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Can we put to bed the idea that there haven't been any redshirt freshmen QBs who have had a strong season?

 

[ColoradoHusk]

My only fear with O'Brien is that he will become a Checkdown Charlie and there will be a lack of big plays from the passing game. I know getting first downs and moving the ball down the field is important, but I hope that POB doesn't become the QB who is great in-between the 20s, but struggles to create TD's.

 

[cornographic]

We aren't talking about how well they eventually did. We are talking about how well they did that first season, and lynch, for example, threw more interceptions than touchdowns.

and we're talking about tons of examples of redshirt or true freshman quarterbacks over the last decade that played very good to great in their first years

Sam Bradford, Marcus Mariota, Colt McCoy, Johnny Manziel, Jameis Winston, Josh Rosen, Braxton Miler, J.T. Barrett, Jake Browning, Terrell Pryor, Robert Griffin III, Taylor Martinez, Kellen Moore, Jared Goff, Christian Hackenburg, Baker Mayfield, Matt Barkley, Wes Lunt, Brett Hundley, do you need more? Not all pro style, admittedly, but almost all were accomplished throwers, and all of them played better as freshmen than we have had for quarterback play in the last several years.

Not all those guys were great shakes their 1st year starting, a number of those guys were project players because the team didnt have any better options at the time, e.g., RGIII, Hackenburg(who finished his senior year < 60% completions) I think Big Red beat RGIII his 1st year or 2. Terrelle Pryor couldnt hit the broad side of a barn his 1st 2 years and Brax never did become that great of a passer. TMart could run like the wind but was always a nail biter as a passer:

I'm glad we don't have to start a true frosh QB.

 

[Landlord]

We aren't talking about how well they eventually did. We are talking about how well they did that first season, and lynch, for example, threw more interceptions than touchdowns.

and we're talking about tons of examples of redshirt or true freshman quarterbacks over the last decade that played very good to great in their first years

Sam Bradford, Marcus Mariota, Colt McCoy, Johnny Manziel, Jameis Winston, Josh Rosen, Braxton Miler, J.T. Barrett, Jake Browning, Terrell Pryor, Robert Griffin III, Taylor Martinez, Kellen Moore, Jared Goff, Christian Hackenburg, Baker Mayfield, Matt Barkley, Wes Lunt, Brett Hundley, do you need more? Not all pro style, admittedly, but almost all were accomplished throwers, and all of them played better as freshmen than we have had for quarterback play in the last several years.

Not all those guys were great shakes their 1st year starting, a number of those guys were project players because the team didnt have any better options at the time, e.g., RGIII, Hackenburg(who finished his senior year < 60% completions) I think Big Red beat RGIII his 1st year or 2. Terrelle Pryor couldnt hit the broad side of a barn his 1st 2 years and Brax never did become that great of a passer.

I'm glad we don't have to start a true frosh QB.

RGIII freshman numbers - 160/267 (59.9%) for 2091 yards, 15 TD, 3 INT ----- 173 rushes for 843 yards, 4.9ypc, 13 TD QBR of 142.0

Hackenberg freshman numbers - 231/392 (58.9%) for 2955 yards, 20 TD, 10 INT. QBR of 134

Terrell Pryor freshman numbers - 100/165 (60.6%) for 1311 yards, 12 TD, 4 INT ----- 139 rushes for 631 yards, 4.5ypc, 7 TD QBR of 146.5

Tommy Armstrong junior numbers - 222/402 (55.2%) for 3030 yards, 22 TD, 16 INT ----- 98 rushes for 400 yards, 4.1ypc, 7 TD QBR of 128.6

 

[cornographic]

We aren't talking about how well they eventually did. We are talking about how well they did that first season, and lynch, for example, threw more interceptions than touchdowns.

and we're talking about tons of examples of redshirt or true freshman quarterbacks over the last decade that played very good to great in their first years

Sam Bradford, Marcus Mariota, Colt McCoy, Johnny Manziel, Jameis Winston, Josh Rosen, Braxton Miler, J.T. Barrett, Jake Browning, Terrell Pryor, Robert Griffin III, Taylor Martinez, Kellen Moore, Jared Goff, Christian Hackenburg, Baker Mayfield, Matt Barkley, Wes Lunt, Brett Hundley, do you need more? Not all pro style, admittedly, but almost all were accomplished throwers, and all of them played better as freshmen than we have had for quarterback play in the last several years.

Not all those guys were great shakes their 1st year starting, a number of those guys were project players because the team didnt have any better options at the time, e.g., RGIII, Hackenburg(who finished his senior year < 60% completions) I think Big Red beat RGIII his 1st year or 2. Terrelle Pryor couldnt hit the broad side of a barn his 1st 2 years and Brax never did become that great of a passer.

I'm glad we don't have to start a true frosh QB.

RGIII freshman numbers - 160/267 (59.9%) for 2091 yards, 15 TD, 3 INT ----- 173 rushes for 843 yards, 4.9ypc, 13 TD QBR of 142.0

Hackenberg freshman numbers - 231/392 (58.9%) for 2955 yards, 20 TD, 10 INT. QBR of 134

Terrell Pryor freshman numbers - 100/165 (60.6%) for 1311 yards, 12 TD, 4 INT ----- 139 rushes for 631 yards, 4.5ypc, 7 TD QBR of 146.5

Tommy Armstrong junior numbers - 222/402 (55.2%) for 3030 yards, 22 TD, 16 INT ----- 98 rushes for 400 yards, 4.1ypc, 7 TD QBR of 128.6

RGIII frosh record: 4-8

Hack: 7-5

I'll give ya Pryor, but the guy was never known for his passing skills.

Hey, if POB can beat out Tommy, I'm all for it, but doesn't look like it's going to happen.

 

[cm husker]

RGIII and Terrell Pryor are not comparable in several ways.

Hackenberg did ok as a freshman (marginally higher QBR than TA's last year), but then again, his numbers declined significantly during the next two years and he finished his career with a QBR of 121.4.

Also, his team went 7-5 and finished at 69th in scoring offense during his freshman year (and before sanctions would even take hold in a meaningful way... not that they ever did).

Other names on your list didn't do all that well as freshman (e.g., Mayfield, Barkley, and Goff).

I'm not saying it's impossible for a freshman to do well, but it's rare they pilot their teams to the kinds of results NU is hoping for.

 

[Redux]

Looks like Zach Darlington will nvr see the filed due to the concussions, eh? Too bad, could've been a good one, me thinks.

he's been moved to wr. not sure if he will ever see the field there or not....but that is why you don't see him mentioned with the qb's now.

WR, wow, thats loco! Great position for a guy who has had concussion issues: NOT! Besides, we have WRs coming out the ying yang these days.

Onviously just trying to start drama here. You just went on about how it's too bad he can't play, then respond with that when you are told he could at a safer position.

 

[cornographic]

Looks like Zach Darlington will nvr see the filed due to the concussions, eh? Too bad, could've been a good one, me thinks.

he's been moved to wr. not sure if he will ever see the field there or not....but that is why you don't see him mentioned with the qb's now.

WR, wow, thats loco! Great position for a guy who has had concussion issues: NOT! Besides, we have WRs coming out the ying yang these days.

Onviously just trying to start drama here. You just went on about how it's too bad he can't play, then respond with that when you are told he could at a safer position.

I don't think WR is particularly safer, and I doubt he sees the field much, regardless.

 

[cm husker]

Anyway, examples of guys doing well as starters without any other real game experience doesn't refute my central argument, which is simply that NU should try to get reps for the guy they think will be a starter in 2017.

Because, no matter how well said examples did, I doubt many of their coaches wouldn't have preferred they had a little experience before their first start.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Anyway, examples of guys doing well as starters without any other real game experience doesn't refute my central argument, which is simply that NU should try to get reps for the guy they think will be a starter in 2017.

Because, no matter how well said examples did, I doubt many of their coaches wouldn't have preferred they had a little experience before their first start.

So....

along with the above, you have also stated that there really shouldn't be a throw away season to build for the future.

Putting those two statements together.

Let's say TA is playing very well and in 3-4 games we are ahead enough to get POB some snaps in the 4th quarter even though he is 4th on the depth chart from practice. Afterall, he is the fan favorite for 2017.

We get late in the year and it appears that we might have what many fans would consider a pretty successful season. BOOM.....TA blows a knee and is out.

So....our options are. Play POB because afterall, he is the future because that's what all the fans see. OR....play Fyfe or Bush because they appear to be better QBs in practice....however, they have no game experience so far this year.

Seems to me throwing POB out there because he is supposed to be the future instead of who really is better as shown in practice would possibly be throwing this season away if TA goes down.

 

[Landlord]

RGIII and Terrell Pryor are not comparable in several ways.

Hackenberg did ok as a freshman (marginally higher QBR than TA's last year), but then again, his numbers declined significantly during the next two years and he finished his career with a QBR of 121.4.

Also, his team went 7-5 and finished at 69th in scoring offense during his freshman year (and before sanctions would even take hold in a meaningful way... not that they ever did).

Other names on your list didn't do all that well as freshman (e.g., Mayfield, Barkley, and Goff).

I'm not saying it's impossible for a freshman to do well, but it's rare they pilot their teams to the kinds of results NU is hoping for.

Let's make it easier.

If, next year, POB plays at the level of the following at least marginally comparable freshman quarterbacks - Sam Bradford, Marcus Mariota, Colt McCoy, Jameis Winston, Josh Rosen, Jake Browning, Kellen Moore, Christian Hackenburg, Baker Mayfield, Matt Barkley, Wes Lunt, Brett Hundley - then not only would he be statistically better than TA4 in his junior year, but would also result in more wins as well.

Regardless of that rabbit trail, your original statement was, "I'm having a hard time thinking of one who had a strong season as a redshirt freshman, especially in a pro system." And, well, there's a pretty big handful of them that have existed in the pretty recent past.

 

[khaake]

I trust that the coaches will do what it is right. There's a lot of time for evaluation of and growth for the QBs between now and September.

 

[commando]

RGIII and Terrell Pryor are not comparable in several ways.

Hackenberg did ok as a freshman (marginally higher QBR than TA's last year), but then again, his numbers declined significantly during the next two years and he finished his career with a QBR of 121.4.

Also, his team went 7-5 and finished at 69th in scoring offense during his freshman year (and before sanctions would even take hold in a meaningful way... not that they ever did).

Other names on your list didn't do all that well as freshman (e.g., Mayfield, Barkley, and Goff).

I'm not saying it's impossible for a freshman to do well, but it's rare they pilot their teams to the kinds of results NU is hoping for.

Let's make it easier.

If, next year, POB plays at the level of the following at least marginally comparable freshman quarterbacks - Sam Bradford, Marcus Mariota, Colt McCoy, Jameis Winston, Josh Rosen, Jake Browning, Kellen Moore, Christian Hackenburg, Baker Mayfield, Matt Barkley, Wes Lunt, Brett Hundley - then not only would he be statistically better than TA4 in his junior year, but would also result in more wins as well.

Regardless of that rabbit trail, your original statement was, "I'm having a hard time thinking of one who had a strong season as a redshirt freshman, especially in a pro system." And, well, there's a pretty big handful of them that have existed in the pretty recent past.

look out for those

 

[cm husker]

Anyway, examples of guys doing well as starters without any other real game experience doesn't refute my central argument, which is simply that NU should try to get reps for the guy they think will be a starter in 2017.

Because, no matter how well said examples did, I doubt many of their coaches wouldn't have preferred they had a little experience before their first start.

So....

along with the above, you have also stated that there really shouldn't be a throw away season to build for the future.

Putting those two statements together.

Let's say TA is playing very well and in 3-4 games we are ahead enough to get POB some snaps in the 4th quarter even though he is 4th on the depth chart from practice. Afterall, he is the fan favorite for 2017.

We get late in the year and it appears that we might have what many fans would consider a pretty successful season. BOOM.....TA blows a knee and is out.

So....our options are. Play POB because afterall, he is the future because that's what all the fans see. OR....play Fyfe or Bush because they appear to be better QBs in practice....however, they have no game experience so far this year.

Seems to me throwing POB out there because he is supposed to be the future instead of who really is better as shown in practice would possibly be throwing this season away if TA goes down.

As I said, it's a delicate situation. It would depend on a lot on how much separation there is between Fife and POB/Bush.

You shouldn't sacrifice this senior class's chance at success, but there's value in getting the '17 QB experience.