How would things have gone if we had retained Solich as coach?

[cm husker]

Ultimately, would Frank have delivered us a couple National titles by now?

Meh, I dont know, maybe 1 at best. After his staff reshuffling, maybe things get better and the inner workings become more fluent. I would guess we have roughly handful of conference titles to show for it but not much more.

New question, if Frank were still here today, would we be any more relevant than we are now?

I doubt it.

"Meh, maybe 1 at best"

Are you being dismissive of a national championship?

If Frank were here today, he'd probably be retired with a couple of more conf champs under his belt and Gill, Bo, Frost or someone else would be conducting the Husker freight train.

So, yes, I think NU would be quite a bit more relevant.

 

[Mavric]

Frank wasn't the OC in 2003, but that's neither here not there.

I don't feel like getting into this debate with you because I doubt either of us would change our minds. I don't view a season or two of 6 as being indicative of overall performance. Kind of like I don't consider Devaney's 6-4 seasons as "tanking."

Anyway, I thought the okie st and southern miss stat was that they were the only 9+ win teams, not winning record teams. Because at least in addition to those two NU won its bowl game against a team with a winning record (or are you discounting that because Frank had been fired by then?).

Those two seasons are indicative because that's when he'd finally run out of Osborne's recruits and the recruiting momentum that goes with Osborne's success. He couldn't get it done on his own.

Those were the only two winning teams. And I didn't count the bowl game because Frank was gone, as you said.

 

[cm husker]

Frank wasn't the OC in 2003, but that's neither here not there.

I don't feel like getting into this debate with you because I doubt either of us would change our minds. I don't view a season or two of 6 as being indicative of overall performance. Kind of like I don't consider Devaney's 6-4 seasons as "tanking."

Anyway, I thought the okie st and southern miss stat was that they were the only 9+ win teams, not winning record teams. Because at least in addition to those two NU won its bowl game against a team with a winning record (or are you discounting that because Frank had been fired by then?).

Those two seasons are indicative because that's when he'd finally run out of Osborne's recruits and the recruiting momentum that goes with Osborne's success. He couldn't get it done on his own.

Those were the only two winning teams. And I didn't count the bowl game because Frank was gone, as you said.

NU was ranked 14th on rivals when Frank was fired. So he had some recruiting momentum. I guess I won't get into a debate as to how many TO ""leftovers" he was using to when NU went to an NC game 4 years after TO retired or a dissection of every NU season going back to the 60s when you could find that there were a number of years where NU didn't beat very many good teams (for example, in 1990, NU didn't beat any team that won more than 6 games, think only two had winning records and was blown out by an unranked Oklahoma team).

Stuff happens. In totality, I think Frank was a successful head coach at NU.

You don't have to agree. But a lot of football minds do.

 

[Redux]

Ultimately, would Frank have delivered us a couple National titles by now?

Meh, I dont know, maybe 1 at best. After his staff reshuffling, maybe things get better and the inner workings become more fluent. I would guess we have roughly handful of conference titles to show for it but not much more.

New question, if Frank were still here today, would we be any more relevant than we are now?

I doubt it.

"Meh, maybe 1 at best"

Are you being dismissive of a national championship?

If Frank were here today, he'd probably be retired with a couple of more conf champs under his belt and Gill, Bo, Frost or someone else would be conducting the Husker freight train.

So, yes, I think NU would be quite a bit more relevant.

Lol, if that's how you prefer to take it.

I don't honestly think he would have gotten us 1 MNC by now had he stayed, but what do I know.

I just wish you used the same logic and approach when looking at Riley as you do when you look at Frank.

 

[cm husker]

Ultimately, would Frank have delivered us a couple National titles by now?

Meh, I dont know, maybe 1 at best. After his staff reshuffling, maybe things get better and the inner workings become more fluent. I would guess we have roughly handful of conference titles to show for it but not much more.

New question, if Frank were still here today, would we be any more relevant than we are now?

I doubt it.

"Meh, maybe 1 at best"Are you being dismissive of a national championship?

If Frank were here today, he'd probably be retired with a couple of more conf champs under his belt and Gill, Bo, Frost or someone else would be conducting the Husker freight train.

So, yes, I think NU would be quite a bit more relevant.

Lol, if that's how you prefer to take it.
I don't honestly think he would have gotten us 1 MNC by now had he stayed, but what do I know.

I just wish you used the same logic and approach when looking at Riley as you do when you look at Frank.

How am I applying a different standard to Riley?

 

[Mavric]

Frank wasn't the OC in 2003, but that's neither here not there.

I don't feel like getting into this debate with you because I doubt either of us would change our minds. I don't view a season or two of 6 as being indicative of overall performance. Kind of like I don't consider Devaney's 6-4 seasons as "tanking."

Anyway, I thought the okie st and southern miss stat was that they were the only 9+ win teams, not winning record teams. Because at least in addition to those two NU won its bowl game against a team with a winning record (or are you discounting that because Frank had been fired by then?).

Those two seasons are indicative because that's when he'd finally run out of Osborne's recruits and the recruiting momentum that goes with Osborne's success. He couldn't get it done on his own.

Those were the only two winning teams. And I didn't count the bowl game because Frank was gone, as you said.

NU was ranked 14th on rivals when Frank was fired. So he had some recruiting momentum. I guess I won't get into a debate as to how many TO ""leftovers" he was using to when NU went to an NC game 4 years after TO retired or a dissection of every NU season going back to the 60s when you could find that there were a number of years where NU didn't beat very many good teams (for example, in 1990, NU didn't beat any team that won more than 6 games, think only two had winning records and was blown out by an unranked Oklahoma team).

Stuff happens. In totality, I think Frank was a successful head coach at NU.

You don't have to agree. But a lot of football minds do.

In totality, fairly successful. But again, that includes a lot of time spent riding TO's coattails.

It's not just guys TO actually recruited. But who spent most of their high school careers watching Nebraska win national championships. We didn't have to go around convincing guys to be interested in Nebraska. They already were when we showed up at their doorstep. There were plenty of guys on the 2001 team who would have committed and signed within a year or two of winning the third national title in four years. There's a lot of residual there. As that memory started to fade, so did the results.

And say a recruiting class is highly ranked at any time other than signing day really doesn't mean anything at all. Did we have more recruits committed at that time than other schools? Would they all have stayed even if he wasn't fired? How many other schools would have passed us anyway? Would they have actually worked out? Way too many variables for that to mean anything.

The 2005 class was supposed to be the savior of the program. But it ended up being more hype than substance. And it was really only Rivals that thought it was that good. When you look at it in the 247 composite, it's nothing special. A large number of commits made it look a lot better than it was. There were some pretty good players (Slauson, Bowman, Lucky, Dillard, Potter, Taylor and Turner) plus one elite player (Suh) but out of 32 players that's not a great percentage.

 

[cm husker]

That's an uncomfortable point in light of current recruiting hype.

 

[NUinID]

I can't believe this is still going strong. As I said before, I wanted FS retained because I really liked the group of coaches he put together in 2003. I wanted to see how they would recruit and coach for a few years. IMO I think recruiting would have picked up and things would have got better. Recruiting is not all about how great a recruiter the HC is it is more about the assistants. I think the older assistants that were let go wern't recruiting like they had been.

I don't know if that would have happened or not but I liked the vibe of what was going on with the team and the staff. FS's biggest mistake when he took over for TO in 98 was that he tried to hard to do a TO impression. He tried to hard to be this even keeled emotionless guy and that is not what he is.

For me short term and long term keeping FS would have been better for NU. I think it would have been a rebuilding process to get a league championship, but I don't think we see a 5-7 season in there. Maybe an 8-4 or even a 7-5, but not a losing season.

 

[cm husker]

We missed a major opportunity between '04 and '07. The B12N was awful those years. And I think continuity going into '08 through '10 would have allowed NU to win at least one of those conf championships.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Here's another fun question: how would things have gone if Tom Osborne hadn't retired?

It's too simple and statistically unlikely to assume Tom would have kept chucking out National Champions.

It's actually pretty easy to envision Osborne having a run similar to Solich's, including the 1998 season that tends to freak out some people here but is hardly rare among even legendary coaches, and the 1999, 2000 and 2001 seasons, which would fit right in with Tom's resume.

Does Tom ever go 7-7? Maybe not. But by this point we are 30 seasons into Tom's career, and chaos theory suggests he'd get at least one pass for a .500 season.

And by this time we'd have to consider the fact that Nebraska and other legacy programs no longer commanded the same clout, and more and more teams were working with better talent, better facilities and higher expectations. Perhaps other teams with good coaches and bigger, faster defenses had begun to neutralize Tom's offense. He probably would have evolved his system in response, but like every other team in every other sport you can't expect continuous domination doing exactly what you did before. There are just too many variables.

Tom knew what he was doing, going out on top.

 

[Redux]

Ultimately, would Frank have delivered us a couple National titles by now?

Meh, I dont know, maybe 1 at best. After his staff reshuffling, maybe things get better and the inner workings become more fluent. I would guess we have roughly handful of conference titles to show for it but not much more.

New question, if Frank were still here today, would we be any more relevant than we are now?

I doubt it.

"Meh, maybe 1 at best"Are you being dismissive of a national championship?

If Frank were here today, he'd probably be retired with a couple of more conf champs under his belt and Gill, Bo, Frost or someone else would be conducting the Husker freight train.

So, yes, I think NU would be quite a bit more relevant.

Lol, if that's how you prefer to take it.I don't honestly think he would have gotten us 1 MNC by now had he stayed, but what do I know.

I just wish you used the same logic and approach when looking at Riley as you do when you look at Frank.

How am I applying a different standard to Riley?

Not sure if you're serious

 

[cm husker]

Ultimately, would Frank have delivered us a couple National titles by now?

Meh, I dont know, maybe 1 at best. After his staff reshuffling, maybe things get better and the inner workings become more fluent. I would guess we have roughly handful of conference titles to show for it but not much more.

New question, if Frank were still here today, would we be any more relevant than we are now?

I doubt it.

"Meh, maybe 1 at best"Are you being dismissive of a national championship?

If Frank were here today, he'd probably be retired with a couple of more conf champs under his belt and Gill, Bo, Frost or someone else would be conducting the Husker freight train.

So, yes, I think NU would be quite a bit more relevant.

Lol, if that's how you prefer to take it.I don't honestly think he would have gotten us 1 MNC by now had he stayed, but what do I know.

I just wish you used the same logic and approach when looking at Riley as you do when you look at Frank.

How am I applying a different standard to Riley?Not sure if you're seriousI'm quite serious. I've often said that if Riley matches what frank or bo accomplished during their tenures, I wouldn't want him fired.

Hell, even if he comes close to those standards, I wouldn't want him fired.

So, now that you understand it was a serious question, please answer it.

 

[Redux]

Ultimately, would Frank have delivered us a couple National titles by now?

Meh, I dont know, maybe 1 at best. After his staff reshuffling, maybe things get better and the inner workings become more fluent. I would guess we have roughly handful of conference titles to show for it but not much more.

New question, if Frank were still here today, would we be any more relevant than we are now?

I doubt it.

"Meh, maybe 1 at best"Are you being dismissive of a national championship?

If Frank were here today, he'd probably be retired with a couple of more conf champs under his belt and Gill, Bo, Frost or someone else would be conducting the Husker freight train.

So, yes, I think NU would be quite a bit more relevant.

Lol, if that's how you prefer to take it.I don't honestly think he would have gotten us 1 MNC by now had he stayed, but what do I know.

I just wish you used the same logic and approach when looking at Riley as you do when you look at Frank.

How am I applying a different standard to Riley?

Not sure if you're serious

I'm quite serious. I've often said that if Riley matches what frank or bo accomplished during their tenures, I wouldn't want him fired.

Hell, even if he comes close to those standards, I wouldn't want him fired.

So, now that you understand it was a serious question, please answer it.

Because you offer very personal insights as to what you feel Frank or Bo could have done with more time or a different superior etc. You grant them passes on multiple shortcomings and look the other way on inferiorities like staff choices or recruiting decisions. And I feel you do this based off of the type of system and coaching style both men ran/run.

When it comes to Riley you come off incredibly judgemental about his system and coaching philosophy because you personally aren't a fan of it. Yet you say "if he can do this..." you will be okay with it. Well we only have one year under his watch to base a judgement on what results he can give us. I feel like you haven't given him the same leeway or opportunity as his predecessors based solely off coaching style.

Me, I have my issues with the style itself too. But I am willing to see what happens before making a decision on it.

 

[cm husker]

I haven't questioned any of Riley's staff choices. I've mentioned that I think a focus on California, if it's at the expense of time within the region, is misguided. But other than that, I've never questioned his recruiting choices either, and certainly not regarding a specific player.

I think people pillory Frank and Bo because they aren't willing to admit their own unrealistic expectations, so they take every perceived shortcoming of theirs and amplify it as a justification for firings that were, in my opinion, wrong. My faith in frank and Bo wasn't so much about their system, but the systems they came from. Both had lots of history being parts of champions. Both had the intense fire a person needs to be a top professional. Both were off to outstanding starts as first time HCs when viewed in historical perspective and I thought both had a tremendous amount of upside potential for a variety of reasons.

I don't think Riley will ever achieve their level of success doing things the way he's done it for 20 years as an HC, but if he does, no way would I want him fired. But I do think a number of people who advocated firing Frank and Bo will want Riley fired even if he does well here, and that's concerning to me.

 

[cm husker]

Just to be clear, if Frank or Bo had put together a clunker of a first season like Riley's, I would have been immediately skeptical of their prospects, especially if they had 20 years of .500 results behind them.