Fall Camp Position Battles - Quarterback

[Landlord]

You're 100% right AND he's going to own every single QB record by the time he leaves here....

This isn't really true. He's going to own every single QB record that is based on quantity, due mostly to sheer longevity and number of games played in. He won't sniff the records of QBR, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, etc., which are far more important metrics than throwing for more yards than anyone else because he was a 4 year starter in pass-happy offenses compared to the past.

 

[marko polo]

You're 100% right AND he's going to own every single QB record by the time he leaves here....

This isn't really true. He's going to own every single QB record that is based on quantity, due mostly to sheer longevity and number of games played in. He won't sniff the records of QBR, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, etc., which are far more important metrics than throwing for more yards than anyone else because he was a 4 year starter in pass-happy offenses compared to the past.

This^

 

[swmohusker]

Benning discussed the Pick 6 play on his radio show this morning. He said there were 3 things that caused the INT return for the TD, which was a comeback route on the sideline.

1. The WR made a bad break out of his cut, and didn't come back to the ball very aggressively/downhill. Coach Williams immediately ripped into him.

2. Armstrong didn't make a great throw, as his throw was to the inside, rather than the sideline.

3. Chris Jones made a great cut on the ball and great play.

So, Armstrong appears to have not made an accurate throw on a sideline comeback route, but that is a long throw, and we know that Armstrong's struggles with accuracy at times. However, the pick 6 wasn't entirely Armstrong's fault, and there also should be credit given to Chris Jones. If the WR fights to the ball more, the pass is probably just broken up and the offense moves on.

#1 and 3 don't matter. If #2 doesn't happen the ball is not intercepted. Period. The DB play and wr have no bearing on if through qb puts the ball where it should it will not be intercepted. It will just be incomplete which is what we can live with.

#1 matters just as much as #2 does. If the WR gives the QB no help on the ball, then it can lead to an INT. I understand accuracy matters for the QB, but the WR needs to make a better break attack the ball in the air.
Not all INT's are the 100% fault of the QB.

A comeback is an outside breaking route. If the qb throws the ball on time and to the outside the ball will not get picked. The ball was picked bc you can't miss inside. If you miss inside then the WR slipping matters.

If the WR makes a bad break and isn't to his spot on time, it doesn't matter where the QB throws it.

If it's a bad throw outside, it's an incomplete pass.
If it's a bad throw inside, it's a pick 6.

On an outside breaking route, it absolutely matters where the QB throws it.

If the receiver's "bad break" leaves him towards the inside, the QB has a split second to try to complete the pass.
The point is, the INT (in practice) isn't completely Tommy's fault.

A comeback should be thrown before the WR is breaking down or at least simultaneously. The qb doesn't read the WR break. And I don't think it is the end of the world that he threw a pick in practice. You can't take the accountability away from the qb for throwing picks unless it is a dropped ball the gets tipped In the air

 

[Redux]

You're 100% right AND he's going to own every single QB record by the time he leaves here....

This isn't really true. He's going to own every single QB record that is based on quantity, due mostly to sheer longevity and number of games played in. He won't sniff the records of QBR, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, etc., which are far more important metrics than throwing for more yards than anyone else because he was a 4 year starter in pass-happy offenses compared to the past.

Wow, you really like to take things literally. Guess I should have slapped an internet 'like' or something on there to make sure you knew I wasn't being that literal.

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/blogs/bigred/tommy-armstrong-jordan-westerkamp-nate-gerry-all-within-reach-of/article_97955c96-543a-11e6-b661-4fd3faba06cc.html

Records he will break:

• Career Passing
• Career TD's
• Career Offensive Yardage
• Career Completions
• Career Starts

Yeah, boy...what a horrible QB...you can TOTALLY get those records by just showing up for 4 years. It's always good to minimize what our players accomplish...makes us great fans right?

No, but if his QBR were higher he probably would have broken those records already.

As a team we need him to help us win the turnover battle, as a team we need him to increase his completions and as a team we need him to be the guy we can depend on as necessary.

He can do these things, it's just a matter of if he will.

 

[Stumpy1]

The QBR system is kind of a joke and really shouldn't be used to measure anything.

Tommy just needs to play smart and if he can do that, we will see good results.

 

[cm husker]

Benning discussed the Pick 6 play on his radio show this morning. He said there were 3 things that caused the INT return for the TD, which was a comeback route on the sideline.

1. The WR made a bad break out of his cut, and didn't come back to the ball very aggressively/downhill. Coach Williams immediately ripped into him.

2. Armstrong didn't make a great throw, as his throw was to the inside, rather than the sideline.

3. Chris Jones made a great cut on the ball and great play.

So, Armstrong appears to have not made an accurate throw on a sideline comeback route, but that is a long throw, and we know that Armstrong's struggles with accuracy at times. However, the pick 6 wasn't entirely Armstrong's fault, and there also should be credit given to Chris Jones. If the WR fights to the ball more, the pass is probably just broken up and the offense moves on.

#1 and 3 don't matter. If #2 doesn't happen the ball is not intercepted. Period. The DB play and wr have no bearing on if through qb puts the ball where it should it will not be intercepted. It will just be incomplete which is what we can live with.

#1 matters just as much as #2 does. If the WR gives the QB no help on the ball, then it can lead to an INT. I understand accuracy matters for the QB, but the WR needs to make a better break attack the ball in the air.
Not all INT's are the 100% fault of the QB.

A comeback is an outside breaking route. If the qb throws the ball on time and to the outside the ball will not get picked. The ball was picked bc you can't miss inside. If you miss inside then the WR slipping matters.

If the WR makes a bad break and isn't to his spot on time, it doesn't matter where the QB throws it.

If it's a bad throw outside, it's an incomplete pass.
If it's a bad throw inside, it's a pick 6.

On an outside breaking route, it absolutely matters where the QB throws it.

If the receiver's "bad break" leaves him towards the inside, the QB has a split second to try to complete the pass.
The point is, the INT (in practice) isn't completely Tommy's fault.

A comeback should be thrown before the WR is breaking down or at least simultaneously. The qb doesn't read the WR break. And I don't think it is the end of the world that he threw a pick in practice. You can't take the accountability away from the qb for throwing picks unless it is a dropped ball the gets tipped In the air

So, if a receiver breaks wrong and the pass goes through the area where he was supposed to be and is picked off by a background player, that's on the QB?
No.

Same way as in the Iowa game, that pick by the DE wasn't really on Armstrong, because that guy shouldn't have even been a factor in the play (and therefore wasn't a read for TA) - but Lewis whiffed his block.

There are a bunch of reasons why an int may not be on a QB.

 

[swmohusker]

Benning discussed the Pick 6 play on his radio show this morning. He said there were 3 things that caused the INT return for the TD, which was a comeback route on the sideline.

1. The WR made a bad break out of his cut, and didn't come back to the ball very aggressively/downhill. Coach Williams immediately ripped into him.

2. Armstrong didn't make a great throw, as his throw was to the inside, rather than the sideline.

3. Chris Jones made a great cut on the ball and great play.

So, Armstrong appears to have not made an accurate throw on a sideline comeback route, but that is a long throw, and we know that Armstrong's struggles with accuracy at times. However, the pick 6 wasn't entirely Armstrong's fault, and there also should be credit given to Chris Jones. If the WR fights to the ball more, the pass is probably just broken up and the offense moves on.

#1 and 3 don't matter. If #2 doesn't happen the ball is not intercepted. Period. The DB play and wr have no bearing on if through qb puts the ball where it should it will not be intercepted. It will just be incomplete which is what we can live with.

#1 matters just as much as #2 does. If the WR gives the QB no help on the ball, then it can lead to an INT. I understand accuracy matters for the QB, but the WR needs to make a better break attack the ball in the air.
Not all INT's are the 100% fault of the QB.

A comeback is an outside breaking route. If the qb throws the ball on time and to the outside the ball will not get picked. The ball was picked bc you can't miss inside. If you miss inside then the WR slipping matters.

If the WR makes a bad break and isn't to his spot on time, it doesn't matter where the QB throws it.

If it's a bad throw outside, it's an incomplete pass.
If it's a bad throw inside, it's a pick 6.

On an outside breaking route, it absolutely matters where the QB throws it.

If the receiver's "bad break" leaves him towards the inside, the QB has a split second to try to complete the pass.
The point is, the INT (in practice) isn't completely Tommy's fault.

A comeback should be thrown before the WR is breaking down or at least simultaneously. The qb doesn't read the WR break. And I don't think it is the end of the world that he threw a pick in practice. You can't take the accountability away from the qb for throwing picks unless it is a dropped ball the gets tipped In the air

So, if a receiver breaks wrong and the pass goes through the area where he was supposed to be and is picked off by a background player, that's on the QB?
No.

Same way as in the Iowa game, that pick by the DE wasn't really on Armstrong, because that guy shouldn't have even been a factor in the play (and therefore wasn't a read for TA) - but Lewis whiffed his block.

There are a bunch of reasons why an int may not be on a QB.

On a comeback it doesn't matter if the WR falls. You are throwing to an area. On a hitch or other routes it does matter what the WR does to an extent. If my qb throws a picks on a comeback bc he missed inside then I don't care what the WR did the qb is getting the blame. A comeback is a race from the top of the route to the sideline at a 45 degree angle. If you get that picked you put the ball in the wrong spot. A qb has to control what they can control. You can't do anything about how the WR plays. You throw on time to the right place you will live to play another down.

 

[marko polo]

Benning discussed the Pick 6 play on his radio show this morning. He said there were 3 things that caused the INT return for the TD, which was a comeback route on the sideline.

1. The WR made a bad break out of his cut, and didn't come back to the ball very aggressively/downhill. Coach Williams immediately ripped into him.

2. Armstrong didn't make a great throw, as his throw was to the inside, rather than the sideline.

3. Chris Jones made a great cut on the ball and great play.

So, Armstrong appears to have not made an accurate throw on a sideline comeback route, but that is a long throw, and we know that Armstrong's struggles with accuracy at times. However, the pick 6 wasn't entirely Armstrong's fault, and there also should be credit given to Chris Jones. If the WR fights to the ball more, the pass is probably just broken up and the offense moves on.

#1 and 3 don't matter. If #2 doesn't happen the ball is not intercepted. Period. The DB play and wr have no bearing on if through qb puts the ball where it should it will not be intercepted. It will just be incomplete which is what we can live with.

#1 matters just as much as #2 does. If the WR gives the QB no help on the ball, then it can lead to an INT. I understand accuracy matters for the QB, but the WR needs to make a better break attack the ball in the air.
Not all INT's are the 100% fault of the QB.

A comeback is an outside breaking route. If the qb throws the ball on time and to the outside the ball will not get picked. The ball was picked bc you can't miss inside. If you miss inside then the WR slipping matters.

If the WR makes a bad break and isn't to his spot on time, it doesn't matter where the QB throws it.

If it's a bad throw outside, it's an incomplete pass.
If it's a bad throw inside, it's a pick 6.

On an outside breaking route, it absolutely matters where the QB throws it.

If the receiver's "bad break" leaves him towards the inside, the QB has a split second to try to complete the pass.
The point is, the INT (in practice) isn't completely Tommy's fault.

A comeback should be thrown before the WR is breaking down or at least simultaneously. The qb doesn't read the WR break. And I don't think it is the end of the world that he threw a pick in practice. You can't take the accountability away from the qb for throwing picks unless it is a dropped ball the gets tipped In the air

So, if a receiver breaks wrong and the pass goes through the area where he was supposed to be and is picked off by a background player, that's on the QB?
No.

Same way as in the Iowa game, that pick by the DE wasn't really on Armstrong, because that guy shouldn't have even been a factor in the play (and therefore wasn't a read for TA) - but Lewis whiffed his block.

There are a bunch of reasons why an int may not be on a QB.

On a comeback it doesn't matter if the WR falls. You are throwing to an area. On a hitch or other routes it does matter what the WR does to an extent. If my qb throws a picks on a comeback bc he missed inside then I don't care what the WR did the qb is getting the blame. A comeback is a race from the top of the route to the sideline at a 45 degree angle. If you get that picked you put the ball in the wrong spot. A qb has to control what they can control. You can't do anything about how the WR plays. You throw on time to the right place you will live to play another down.

This^

 

[cm husker]

Benning discussed the Pick 6 play on his radio show this morning. He said there were 3 things that caused the INT return for the TD, which was a comeback route on the sideline.

1. The WR made a bad break out of his cut, and didn't come back to the ball very aggressively/downhill. Coach Williams immediately ripped into him.

2. Armstrong didn't make a great throw, as his throw was to the inside, rather than the sideline.

3. Chris Jones made a great cut on the ball and great play.

So, Armstrong appears to have not made an accurate throw on a sideline comeback route, but that is a long throw, and we know that Armstrong's struggles with accuracy at times. However, the pick 6 wasn't entirely Armstrong's fault, and there also should be credit given to Chris Jones. If the WR fights to the ball more, the pass is probably just broken up and the offense moves on.

#1 and 3 don't matter. If #2 doesn't happen the ball is not intercepted. Period. The DB play and wr have no bearing on if through qb puts the ball where it should it will not be intercepted. It will just be incomplete which is what we can live with.

#1 matters just as much as #2 does. If the WR gives the QB no help on the ball, then it can lead to an INT. I understand accuracy matters for the QB, but the WR needs to make a better break attack the ball in the air.
Not all INT's are the 100% fault of the QB.

A comeback is an outside breaking route. If the qb throws the ball on time and to the outside the ball will not get picked. The ball was picked bc you can't miss inside. If you miss inside then the WR slipping matters.

If the WR makes a bad break and isn't to his spot on time, it doesn't matter where the QB throws it.

If it's a bad throw outside, it's an incomplete pass.
If it's a bad throw inside, it's a pick 6.

On an outside breaking route, it absolutely matters where the QB throws it.

If the receiver's "bad break" leaves him towards the inside, the QB has a split second to try to complete the pass.
The point is, the INT (in practice) isn't completely Tommy's fault.

A comeback should be thrown before the WR is breaking down or at least simultaneously. The qb doesn't read the WR break. And I don't think it is the end of the world that he threw a pick in practice. You can't take the accountability away from the qb for throwing picks unless it is a dropped ball the gets tipped In the air

So, if a receiver breaks wrong and the pass goes through the area where he was supposed to be and is picked off by a background player, that's on the QB?
No.

Same way as in the Iowa game, that pick by the DE wasn't really on Armstrong, because that guy shouldn't have even been a factor in the play (and therefore wasn't a read for TA) - but Lewis whiffed his block.

There are a bunch of reasons why an int may not be on a QB.

On a comeback it doesn't matter if the WR falls. You are throwing to an area. On a hitch or other routes it does matter what the WR does to an extent. If my qb throws a picks on a comeback bc he missed inside then I don't care what the WR did the qb is getting the blame. A comeback is a race from the top of the route to the sideline at a 45 degree angle. If you get that picked you put the ball in the wrong spot. A qb has to control what they can control. You can't do anything about how the WR plays. You throw on time to the right place you will live to play another down.

I wasn't addressing the TA situation specifically. I was responding to the poster who said the QB is accountable unless it's a tipped pass.

That's not the case.

But I'm not following the distinction you're trying to draw. If a WR is supposed to run a comeback and fails to, then a QB could absolutely throw a pick because he made the correct throw to an area that should have been occupied by his receiver (which would allow the ball to fly through that area and be intercepted).

If the QB makes the right read and right throw, but the WR fails to make the correct route, then how is the interception on the QB?

 

[Landlord]

You're 100% right AND he's going to own every single QB record by the time he leaves here....

This isn't really true. He's going to own every single QB record that is based on quantity, due mostly to sheer longevity and number of games played in. He won't sniff the records of QBR, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, etc., which are far more important metrics than throwing for more yards than anyone else because he was a 4 year starter in pass-happy offenses compared to the past.

Wow, you really like to take things literally. Guess I should have slapped an internet 'like' or something on there to make sure you knew I wasn't being that literal.

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/blogs/bigred/tommy-armstrong-jordan-westerkamp-nate-gerry-all-within-reach-of/article_97955c96-543a-11e6-b661-4fd3faba06cc.html

Records he will break:

1. Career Passing
2. Career TD's
3. Career Offensive Yardage
4. Career Completions
5. Career Starts

Yeah, boy...what a horrible QB...you can TOTALLY get those records by just showing up for 4 years. It's always good to minimize what our players accomplish...makes us great fans right?

Lighten up Francis. First of all, career starts is literally something that you can TOTALLY break the record of by showing up for 4 years lol.

I'm not trying to minimize anything Tommy has accomplished, but only to put it in it's proper place.

Tommy Armstrong is going to beat Tommie Frazier in all-time passing yards by a lot, 6,691 compared to 3,521.

He also had 878 attempts to get there compared to Frazier's 469 attempts.

But he has the record. Does that mean he's better?

 

[cm husker]

Armstrong is better in this offense than Frazier would have been - take that for that it is.

 

[Landlord]

Armstrong is better in this offense than Frazier would have been - take that for that it is.

please don't distract the kid from being able to understand a very obvious and simple point

 

[Count 'Bility]

Armstrong is better in this offense than Frazier would have been - take that for that it is.

Probably an accurate assessment. But it is debateable. 1. Decision making. While Frazier didnt throw a lot of passes, and didnt appear to be the most fluent passer, his TD to Int ratios were astounding. So even though his passing skill might not be as good as Armstrong, It would take some convincing to put Frazier behind Armstrong in this offense even. Not to mention, tendancy to run. Armstrong has shown pretty glaring tentativeness in simply running the ball on scramble situations.

But in the end, it all boils down to how a coach would use each. I personally think Armstrong should be used more like Frazier. A thumper. The guy is 6-1, 220. That's LP/Green size. Run him more. Hell, as of right now, he could be the best running back on the team for all we know.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Armstrong's arm is good and sometimes incredible.

It's the decision making thing.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Armstrong's arm is good and sometimes incredible.

It's the decision making thing.

Yes. As much as I've watched film on the Frazier era, I just cant recall many times where Frazier was throwing to the wrong guy. now granted, back in them days, esp in Osbornes offense, route combos and concepts werent nearly as diverse as they are today. Almost exclusively they were off play action with 2 man go's. But still, the point stands.

Armstrongs got the ability. That's not debated. But like any position in any sport, it's so much more than raw ability. Armstrong struggles with the moment. Yolo ball.