Nebraska's Michael Rose-Ivey receives racial backlash for anthem protest

[knapplc]

You think the kneeling issue we are speaking about is attention grabbing, have you ever been to a Clemson home game?

Pre game = God Bless America, Prayer, Pleadge of Allegence and ends with the Anthem.

See for yourself.

Not sure how to upload a YouTube video but the link below takes you to the video.

I think the point is that we, as a country, are unnecessarily combining national pride with sports. The two have nothing to do with each other.

America would be better served if we just let sports be sports and kept the flag-waving ultranationalism out of it.

 

[killer cacti]

You think the kneeling issue we are speaking about is attention grabbing, have you ever been to a Clemson home game?

Pre game = God Bless America, Prayer, Pleadge of Allegence and ends with the Anthem.

See for yourself.

Not sure how to upload a YouTube video but the link below takes you to the video.

I think, like most things in our country, this is a local culture thing. No one complains about it here, so what's the big deal?

Sure it won't fly in California, but those that aren't here shouldn't worry about it.

 

[Undone]

America would be better served if we just let sports be sports and kept the flag-waving ultranationalism out of it.

+1

 

[Landlord]

I think, like most things in our country, this is a local culture thing. No one complains about it here, so what's the big deal?

Sure it won't fly in California, but those that aren't here shouldn't worry about it.

I guarantee there are some that complain about it, but they are in the minority and either feel stifled or socially pressured to fall in line. You don't think there are any atheists, agnostics, jews, muslims, buddhists, etc. on your football team? Or players that have been burned out on or abused by the church?

 

[killer cacti]

I think, like most things in our country, this is a local culture thing. No one complains about it here, so what's the big deal?

Sure it won't fly in California, but those that aren't here shouldn't worry about it.

I guarantee there are some that complain about it, but they are in the minority and either feel stifled or socially pressured to fall in line. You don't think there are any atheists, agnostics, jews, muslims, buddhists, etc. on your football team? Or players that have been burned out on or abused by the church?

There was a Jahova's witness on the team when I was there. He had no problem. The team isn't even out there when all of this goes down, anyway. Every organization on campus has the right to do the prayer, they always have a muslim & a jewish representative do a prayer each year (One organization does it each game). The intent is for the safety of players and fans, and everyone sees that, never heard anyone offended by it in my 31 years of going to games. Maybe there's just more tolerance for others than complaining about every f'ing thing.

 

[junior4949]

I get really worked up over this subject (see my post following the one you quoted). So when I see people who are unwilling to listen to the players because of the form of their protest, it demonstrates to me that they really don't care. We have a large percentage of our population that live in a different America from you and me. I am making an effort to understand it, are you?

I have yet to hear someone answer my question if they would like to be treated the same as black people in this country. You notice no one has replied to post number 906. There's more discussion in this thread about the posters feelings than what he actual protest is about. So I really am not worried about stepping on some toes. I'm trying to push this topic forward and make this country a better place.

The bolded part is where things get blurred a bit. There are black people in this country that I would very much like to be treated like. I'm sure there are white people that most blacks would like to be treated like. However, there are also black people in this country that I wouldn't like to be treated like just like there are white people in this country that most black people would not like to be treated like. There are pockets of this great nation where a lot of the factory jobs have disappeared placing many white people on welfare. In these areas, crime is now running out of control and drugs are rampant. While it doesn't get the media coverage, a lot of the whites in these areas face similar circumstances.

Of course you'd want the same treatment as a black pro athlete, actor or musician. And no one wants to be treated like poor white trash. But if you take a black person and a white person of the same socioeconomic status, which one would you want to be?

A lot of the liberal social programs that were supposed to help these areas have had the opposite affect. We're at an eight year low for the unemployment rate, yet food stamp use is at an all time high. In most of the poorest areas where there was once jobs there are jobs no longer.

At this moment in time, it would be tough to be a police officer. It would be brutal to be a black police officer.

There are lots of jobs, but they are crappy jobs. The middle class is being wiped out because no one wants to pay that kind of salary. So those jobs go overseas or they are replaced with a cheaper solution. The problem is people are making less money, and companies are reaping bigger profits. More of the money in these companies needs to go to the employees. Profits should be redistributed so a larger portion goes to those doing the producing.

Being a cop is like being an umpire. If you do your job well, no one notices. But everyone knows who Don Denkinger is (maybe not the younger kids). There are going to be mistakes, just like every other job. But when a cop screws up, someone dies.

And speaking of things no one has replied to, that Ferguson report talks about the racist policies that black people have to deal with. That investigation was only for Ferguson, but you're kidding yourself if you think that's the only place that does that kind of stuff.

To the bolded part, it all boils down to what the socioeconomic status is. If we're talking about whether I'd rather be poor and white or whether I'd rather be poor and black, I don't see a lot of difference but to play along I'd probably favor being white. If I'm a college student getting ready to apply for grad. school, I'll take being the black student over the white student. I'd also rather be black when applying for a job especially a gov't job where I had the same credentials regardless of race.

 

[knapplc]

I think, like most things in our country, this is a local culture thing. No one complains about it here, so what's the big deal?

Sure it won't fly in California, but those that aren't here shouldn't worry about it.

I guarantee there are some that complain about it, but they are in the minority and either feel stifled or socially pressured to fall in line. You don't think there are any atheists, agnostics, jews, muslims, buddhists, etc. on your football team? Or players that have been burned out on or abused by the church?

There was a Jahova's witness on the team when I was there. He had no problem. The team isn't even out there when all of this goes down, anyway. Every organization on campus has the right to do the prayer, they always have a muslim & a jewish representative do a prayer each year (One organization does it each game). The intent is for the safety of players and fans, and everyone sees that, never heard anyone offended by it in my 31 years of going to games. Maybe there's just more tolerance for others than complaining about every f'ing thing.

I was talking about nationalism/flag waving. How did this veer into prayer and the church?

 

[killer cacti]

I think, like most things in our country, this is a local culture thing. No one complains about it here, so what's the big deal?

Sure it won't fly in California, but those that aren't here shouldn't worry about it.

I guarantee there are some that complain about it, but they are in the minority and either feel stifled or socially pressured to fall in line. You don't think there are any atheists, agnostics, jews, muslims, buddhists, etc. on your football team? Or players that have been burned out on or abused by the church?

There was a Jahova's witness on the team when I was there. He had no problem. The team isn't even out there when all of this goes down, anyway. Every organization on campus has the right to do the prayer, they always have a muslim & a jewish representative do a prayer each year (One organization does it each game). The intent is for the safety of players and fans, and everyone sees that, never heard anyone offended by it in my 31 years of going to games. Maybe there's just more tolerance for others than complaining about every f'ing thing.

I was talking about nationalism/flag waving. How did this veer into prayer and the church?

Landlord brought up religion. I don't really have any issue with the nationalism/flag waving. Everyone is entitled to do it their own way. My point was more about getting in everyone else's business - from a personal level on up.

 

[zoogs]

IMO, prejudice is part of the human condition. Like greed, jealousy and so on. It really comes down to "doing unto others as you would have them do unto you" . We can have programs, classes and even PSA's on TV ,that tell us how we've done wrong to each other through out history. But you can't move forward, living in the past.

I agree that you can't force people to think a certain way, and that you can't erase racism or other prejudices.

Institutional racism, however, is another animal entirely. Inequitable policies need to be corrected, whether they are treating people different based on race, sex, religion, culture, or socio-economic status.

This is well said, to both of you.

 

[knapplc]

Landlord brought up religion. I don't really have any issue with the nationalism/flag waving. Everyone is entitled to do it their own way. My point was more about getting in everyone else's business - from a personal level on up.

If a person wants to wave the flag at a sporting event, more power to 'em. What I think is weird and potentially damaging is this belief that Sports = National Pride.

 

[killer cacti]

Landlord brought up religion. I don't really have any issue with the nationalism/flag waving. Everyone is entitled to do it their own way. My point was more about getting in everyone else's business - from a personal level on up.

If a person wants to wave the flag at a sporting event, more power to 'em. What I think is weird and potentially damaging is this belief that Sports = National Pride.

Agree.

 

[Jim Hammer]

To the bolded part, it all boils down to what the socioeconomic status is. If we're talking about whether I'd rather be poor and white or whether I'd rather be poor and black, I don't see a lot of difference but to play along I'd probably favor being white. If I'm a college student getting ready to apply for grad. school, I'll take being the black student over the white student. I'd also rather be black when applying for a job especially a gov't job where I had the same credentials regardless of race.

And that's the problem. White people don't know what it's like to be black and the day-to-day hardships they face. There may be some instances where being black is an advantage, but they are very few and very far between.

Read this and get back to me: http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/lewisjulie/White%20Priviledge%20Unpacking%20the%20Invisible%20Knapsack.pdf

 

[ColoNoCoHusker]

I agree the band bears a greater responsibility than a player.

The story here is the nuclear option approach the local radio affiliate is taking to the band taking a knee.

I'm also guessing there may be some contractual obligations that come into play before this is done.

Not really, it makes no difference. Protest is a protest. Band is an school sponsored program just like football is.

It would be more like a player taking a knee the first time he got the ball as a form of protest.

Some played their instruments while they knelt. Others did not.

Can't lump them all in with the above comparison.

My point is that this isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Do the players that have chosen to kneel have any official responsibilities they are refusing to perform during the anthem? Do band members?

I'm not saying they should be punished or banned from being on TV, just saying it is not the same thing.

My point is that when limits to free speech are imposed based on whether you're playing an instrument or not, it seems to limit that free speech.

In my opinion, the tool that makes the protests successful IS the national anthem and any student should have that ability to protest during.

This is an interesting case. One way to evaluate the similarity or difference might be through litigation:

If MRI were cut from the team and released from his scholarship, would he have a discrimination case against the University? I think he would.

How about Ron Brown? I would say he definitely would have a case.

If the band members were dropped from band, or released from a music scholarship, would they have a discrimination case? I don't really know.

Any lawyers on here?

I am not an attorney but in the course of work I have been involved in a few labor cases involving 1st & 2nd Amendment rights. My practical understanding is below.

First, what you have outlined is a civil liberties issue, not a discrimination issue.

If MRI was cut from the team due to taking a knee during the national anthem, UNL and AD would be in violation his 1st Amendment rights as well as University policy. I believe the Supreme Court case establishing this was in the 1940s (people cannot be compelled to stand/recite the Pledge of Allegiance). This has been applied to the National Anthem. Also, the US Flag Code is clear there are NO penalties for failing to comply with it & this has been established in our courts. Wikipedia should have links here under First Amendment court cases. Unless one is active military or has signed contract explicitly stipulating behavior (i.e. Olympic athletes), a private individual cannot be compelled to act a specific way during our national anthem.

As far Ron Brown, people fail to understand what he did wrong. He went to a city government meeting, stated a position explicitly in opposition of his employer's written policy, and provided his work address as his point of contact. From a labor law perspective, he established himself being there in a work capacity, not a personal capacity.. Had Rob Brown given his home address instead of work address, this confusion would not have occurred. By giving his employer's address and stating a position in opposition of AD/UNL written policy, he was explicitly violating several UNL/AD written policies and this is grounds for termination. Had he been terminated, his only recourse would have been civil action and UNL/AD probably would have settled.

As far as ECU band, that's different than MRI or RB. If every band member has an obligation to play their instrument while doing certain actions and band members intentionally choose not to do so, they could be in violation of team, department, or university rules/regulations. The comparison of ECU band members' actions to MRI's would be if MRI chose to take a knee while he was in the game... The issue with the band has nothing to do with the national anthem. It is possibly failing to fulfill their responsibility to play/march.

 

[zoogs]

Nebraska governor Pete Ricketts pens an essay. After, or before his meeting with MRI?

Cliffs notes:
-- America founded on high ideals, but imperfections exist. To think the flag represents the latter rather than the former is "misguided".
-- Not standing for the Anthem causes pain to veterans and their families.
-- Flag represents the sacrifice of American veterans. Protest dishonors that sacrifice.
-- Look at how much I appreciate veterans who don't get enough gratitude (it's a lot).
-- Having the right to protest doesn't mean you should.
-- This protest is divisive, and divided we fall.

So it seems clear that he has put all this out there before the meeting with Rose-Ivey. What's the point of that meeting, then? Seems like his mind is all made up. He's well beyond contemplating the issue, and has moved on to publicly rallying support for his perspective.

 

[NM11046]

Nebraska governor Pete Ricketts pens an essay. After, or before his meeting with MRI?

Cliffs notes:

-- America founded on high ideals, but imperfections exist. To think the flag represents the latter rather than the former is "misguided".

-- Not standing for the Anthem causes pain to veterans and their families.

-- Flag represents the sacrifice of American veterans. Protest dishonors that sacrifice.

-- Look at how much I appreciate veterans who don't get enough gratitude (it's a lot).

-- Having the right to protest doesn't mean you should.

-- This protest is divisive, and divided we fall.

So it seems clear that he has put all this out there before the meeting with Rose-Ivey. What's the point of that meeting, then? Seems like his mind is all made up. He's well beyond contemplating the issue, and has moved on to publicly rallying support for his perspective.

Wow. Hope people respond to this with their vote when it comes time.