Count 'Bility
Banned
so. we got rid of a coach and a couple players who left because of the coach. Weird. sounds like a toxic situation. And it's been clearly improved upon.
Bo Pelini to PURDUE?
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HuskerExpat
Starter
The issue of the "buy in" from the players is totally different than the question asked. Nate Gerry has admitted there wasn't buy in from the defensive players last year until November. How much more evidence do you need?
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ColoradoHusk
Heisman Trophy Winner
Who knows the level of "toxicity" from last year, and I am not sure who is most to blame? Bo deserves some blame for taking an "us against the world" attitude with his players. As far as the blame Riley deserves, I think he and his staff went into the season of "we have some good talent, but I don't want to lose them from day 1, so I am gonna be nice with them, and I think we should be good enough to win games." But, due to bad play and some bad coaching decisions, NU lost way too many games.
The "toxic" situation came to a head after the Purdue loss, where the Riley and the coaches probably dropped the "nice guy" act with the players and finally made the players be accountable. The results since then have been positive, as the players and coaches have learned to co-exist with each other.
The "toxic" situation came to a head after the Purdue loss, where the Riley and the coaches probably dropped the "nice guy" act with the players and finally made the players be accountable. The results since then have been positive, as the players and coaches have learned to co-exist with each other.
HuskerExpat
Starter
SAFETY NATE GERRY
On the team’s improvement: “Everyone kind of looked each other in the eye and we decided we were going to buy in and things are going to start cooking.”
http://www.omaha.com/huskers/blogs/they-said-it-nebraska-coach-mike-riley-players-after-rutgers/article_51d73c6e-8b3c-11e5-9a20-67e84d5e6c44.html
November 14, 2015
On the team’s improvement: “Everyone kind of looked each other in the eye and we decided we were going to buy in and things are going to start cooking.”
http://www.omaha.com/huskers/blogs/they-said-it-nebraska-coach-mike-riley-players-after-rutgers/article_51d73c6e-8b3c-11e5-9a20-67e84d5e6c44.html
November 14, 2015
Count 'Bility
Banned
So there's different degrees of buy in? That's a hell of a spin. Either your heart's all in or it isnt. And when it isnt (for whatever reason, and whoever's fault) things dont go the best.
Now let me ask you something. If Bo goes into that meeting and says...
"Look guys. I'm sorry this went down like this. I'm sorry I let you down we've all been put in this situation. But it would be best for you to continue to give your all for this university and finish your career the proper way. These new coaches will do their best. And it's best for you as a player and person to work for the best regardless of the coach".....
do you think there still woulda been this known buy in issue?
HuskerExpat
Starter
Who said there's degrees of "buy in"? I sure didn't.
So now you're admitting that "buy in" was an issue but arguing that wasn't Pelini's fault?
No one can know if there would have been as big of an issue if Pelini had gone out classy, but I think it is fair to assume that it wouldn't have been worse.
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
Thank you. For some reason this quote gets lost in all the noise surrounding 2015. It's the key line of the season, maybe of Riley's entire Nebraska tenure.
We're 9-1 since that line, currently in the Top 10 and leading our division. That's not an accident.
All of my Pelini posts have been in response to a "Bo-hater" post still popping up. Always. So it's not that I am not "washing clean and moving on", I am still mopping up and waiting to turn out the lights when the last "Bo-hater" decides to finish his drink and go home. I have even made references wanting to know if Bo has a 99 year lease for the space he is still taking up inside the heads of some.
I also challenge these urban legends, such as "Bo left the cupboard bare for Riley" and "Pelini left a toxic mess for Riley". If left unchallenged, they become the defacto truth, the facts notwithstanding.
As for being wrong that we should have kept Pelini, I never said that Pelini should be kept. Pelini was hellbent on getting back to Ohio with his Nebraska salary, and nobody was going to stand in his way of getting fired, including me. He made sure that they had to fire him when he started knocking on Regents' doors late at night and giving them an earful. I guarantee you Bo had his wife packing a month before he got fired.
Where I disagree with most here is they believe Bo is/was a horrible coach and he was to blame for all of the unpleasantness that surrounded his last few years and that we would see an immediate improvement in the team when Bo left. He isn't and he wasn't and we didn't.
Count 'Bility
Banned
You said buy in was different than the question I asked. That's where I brought up degrees of buy in. it just sounded like you were trying to make the deal i was speaking different, when I dont see it that way. it's all one engine with many parts. And my question regarding the DT's leaving are one part of this whole situation. one little part. Where two guys left cuz of a coach, the coach was fired, and htere seems to be more harmony. With that group, it was never gonna be as good as could be cuz of the toxicity.
As far as arguing it not being Pelini's fault, please read and understand. I've been saying it this way all along. it's not just pelini's fault. But it a little bit is. It's not just the players fault. but it a little bit is. it's not just the current coaches fault but it a little bit is. And even a little bit of the fans fault as well. The blame can go around, as certainly no help was done from any part to help out what was already a tricky situation.
There is a middle ground here folks. but when one part or another is completely absolved, it has to be shown that it's not. And for whatever reason, theres some folks that still wont leave the extreme one sided opinion, and come to the middle where the real answer is.
yes im pissed at Bo for how he handled it. But i'm also come to terms that the situation was due to many things
ColoradoHusk
Heisman Trophy Winner
Good post, but he is also being blamed for not seeing the immediate improvement that most expected when he was fired.
HuskerExpat
Starter
I agree with most of that. I'm not sure what evidence there is that Collins and Valentine were part of the "toxicity" problem. Perhaps they were, but I like to think that most of the problem with the DL last year was a separate and distinct problem - that the DL coach sucked. That was my point.
Was there something the Riley staff could have done earlier last year to get buy in earlier? I'm not sure, but maybe. My guess is that when the team hit rock bottom after the Purdue game, the coaches had a conversation that went something like, "If we don't all get with the program it is going to keep going like this." That sort of thing doesn't work until you hit rock bottom. And Gerry's quote above implies to me that hitting rock bottom is what spurred the change. What could the coaches have done earlier that would have worked? I don't know, none of us know what they tried.
I don't put a whole lot on the average player who didn't buy in. That's the point of those, including me, pointing to Pelini. He created a toxic environment and that speech he gave to the team on the way out created an enormous issue. Most of the players who didn't buy in, like Gerry, were simply guilty of loyalty to their ex-coach. Not a bad thing, but Pelini abused that loyalty. Toxic players like Lewis are a different story entirely....
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I am saying that who did or didn't buy in wasn't Pelini's fault. I think that the players were taking a "wait and see" attitude and then optioned out as the losses and dumb finishes to those losses started piling up, Then the two watt light bulb went on over their heads and they saw that they needed to be step up and control their own destiny. Even Armstrong said, "Treat me like a freshman!"
For his part, Riley started to use Armstrong as a runner, and (except for the last game) he doesn't automatically see 3rd and 2 as a situation calling for elaborate pass plays with three or four reads and checks. Riley also has been going for it on fourth down instead of repeating the script of last year's Illinois and Wisconsin losses. He also has his team coached up to take advantage of the plays they couldn't run well / didn't understand last year, so he is indeed cleaning up things. But some of the mess was his own making, let's not overlook that.
As for what happened with Hughes / Banker / the defensive line, I just see something wasn't right and what little facts we know point to that not being a Pelini thing.
ColoradoHusk
Heisman Trophy Winner
I can't wait for another college job to come open, have someone link Bo to that job, and then have another 4 page circle-jerk rehashing things from the past 2 years. Good times.
HuskerExpat
Starter
Certainly no one can prove a causality between Pelini's "us against the world" approach combined with his farewell speech and the lack of "buy in" from the players. But it is very hard to believe that there was no connection between the two. To suggest that the two things are completely unrelated, as you seem to be, is extraordinary.
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Joe_5700
Starter
If you look at how many opportunities there were for Bo to turn the proverbial corner with the team he failed each and every time. Many were just bad luck or even once instance of very questionable calls in a game that went against us.