In-State Talent vs. Out-State Talent

[cm husker]

A number of the running backs you mentioned above (Benning and Childs, for easy examples), would have likely "languished" as backups at other schools. Many of those Omaha guys were sprinters with good, but not great, ball carrying skills. Through a combination of great position coaching and a system that was wholly designed to outnumber defenses at the point of attack, these guys were given an opportunity to show off great speed - but they weren't really asked to do the type of running we ask of RBs today (let alone pass pro).

That was part of the awesomeness of that system.

Now you're just making stuff up. By all accounts Childs may have been the best athlete on the team. Would have played almost anywhere.

Not making anything up - Childs visited no where else (maybe because he didn't want to, which I respect) and he was a career back up (a highly talented one, but backup nonetheless). He had no career in the NFL, going undrafted his senior year.

I love the guy and what he contributed at NU, but he and Benning and a number of other NU IBs definitely benefited from the system. It's not at all clear to me that he would have been a starter "almost anywhere."

 

[cm husker]

NU used to regularly recruit 5+ Nebraska kids a year. Either that old system made otherwise average athletes more successful than they would have been or there are a lot of "under appreciated" Nebraska kids being missed out on recently (and I don't limit this to Riley - it goes back aways).

Maybe it's both.

And the number of quality in state recruits has to be constant over time?

NU also used to have more scholarships available so could afford to take more chances on in state kids.

What was the last class of Nebraska high school kids that turned out 5+ legitimate Power 5 contributors?

Since 1973, in what year did Tom Osborne sign more recruits than he would have been allowed to under current rules?

 

[NM11046]

too bad we don't have any organizations that measure the athletes skills at camps and are able to compare players from across the country based on those tests

Those organizations are mainly garbage when it comes to evaluating kids from smaller markets. Even though they have tried to pretend that they aren't.

What evidence do you have of this?

I'll send you a peer reviewed paper.

Still waiting on this and the other links you claim you have....

They are still awaiting peer review.

But in the mean time, NE has produced the following DI recruits:

2017 - 6 have accepted DIA offers so far, 1 has committed to NU

2016 - 6 produced, 2 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Fant, Bubak and Lenners (NU took Stoll)

2015 - 5 produced, 2 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Holtorf (NU took Davis twins that year)

2014 - 4 produced, 3 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Phillips (NU took Stolenberg, Wills and King at DE that year)

2013 - 4 produced, 1 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Bazata (NU took Collins and Maurice at DT that year)

EDIT FOR MORE DATA POINTS:

2012 - 4 produced, 1 committed to NU

2011 - 8 produced, 4 committed to NU

2010 - 5 produced, 4 committed to NU

2009 - 7 produced, 2 committed to NU

2008 - 10 produced, 6 committed to NU

2007 - 12 produced, 2 committed to NU

2006 - 11 produced, 4 committed to NU

2005 - 8 produced, 3 committed to NU

2004 - 11 produced, 5 committed to NU

2003 - 11 produced, 5 committed to NU

So, in the past three recruiting cycles, NE has produced 17 DIA prospects, and NU has commits from 5 of them.

At 29%, that's down significantly from the last staff's number of 50%.

Callahan's staff landed 33%.

Makes me mad to see how much talented was let go during our worst years as a program in decades.

The interesting component to dig into for me would be the lineman who have gone on to play at FCS or FBS schools other than Nebraska. NU fans consistently complain about a lack of depth on the lines, but it appears that we either don't make an effort or aren't successful in keeping the raw linemen talent within the borders. A guy who is 6'6 and 275, at least on paper, matches up well with almost any OL that we've offered during the past two seasons.

Though I know your numbers are probably correct, what isn't measured here is the quality of school. There is no way you can put all D1 schools in the same bucket as far as FB team performance and talent that they can attract. A player who is D1 is too broad a statement here (imo). Belmont University in TN isn't Nebraska, Air Force isn't Nebraska. Montana isn't Nebraska. Nebraska isn't Alabama. Just because a kid can get a D1 offer doesn't make him one that is up to the talent level we are shooting for.

 

[cm husker]

"Nebraska isn't Alabama"

Duck.

 

[Mavric]

NU used to regularly recruit 5+ Nebraska kids a year. Either that old system made otherwise average athletes more successful than they would have been or there are a lot of "under appreciated" Nebraska kids being missed out on recently (and I don't limit this to Riley - it goes back aways).

Maybe it's both.

And the number of quality in state recruits has to be constant over time?NU also used to have more scholarships available so could afford to take more chances on in state kids.

What was the last class of Nebraska high school kids that turned out 5+ legitimate Power 5 contributors?

Since 1973, in what year did Tom Osborne sign more recruits than he would have been allowed to under current rules?

Every year up to 1992 when the limit was dropped to the current 85

 

[Mavric]

A number of the running backs you mentioned above (Benning and Childs, for easy examples), would have likely "languished" as backups at other schools. Many of those Omaha guys were sprinters with good, but not great, ball carrying skills. Through a combination of great position coaching and a system that was wholly designed to outnumber defenses at the point of attack, these guys were given an opportunity to show off great speed - but they weren't really asked to do the type of running we ask of RBs today (let alone pass pro).

That was part of the awesomeness of that system.

Now you're just making stuff up. By all accounts Childs may have been the best athlete on the team. Would have played almost anywhere.

Not making anything up - Childs visited no where else (maybe because he didn't want to, which I respect) and he was a career back up (a highly talented one, but backup nonetheless). He had no career in the NFL, going undrafted his senior year.

I love the guy and what he contributed at NU, but he and Benning and a number of other NU IBs definitely benefited from the system. It's not at all clear to me that he would have been a starter "almost anywhere."

Of course it's not clear to you. You don't want to believe it. What evidence do you have that they would have only been backups at other schools?

 

[Mavric]

too bad we don't have any organizations that measure the athletes skills at camps and are able to compare players from across the country based on those tests

Those organizations are mainly garbage when it comes to evaluating kids from smaller markets. Even though they have tried to pretend that they aren't.

What evidence do you have of this?

I'll send you a peer reviewed paper.

Still waiting on this and the other links you claim you have....

They are still awaiting peer review.

But in the mean time, NE has produced the following DI recruits:

2017 - 6 have accepted DIA offers so far, 1 has committed to NU

2016 - 6 produced, 2 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Fant, Bubak and Lenners (NU took Stoll)

2015 - 5 produced, 2 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Holtorf (NU took Davis twins that year)

2014 - 4 produced, 3 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Phillips (NU took Stolenberg, Wills and King at DE that year)

2013 - 4 produced, 1 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Bazata (NU took Collins and Maurice at DT that year)

EDIT FOR MORE DATA POINTS:

2012 - 4 produced, 1 committed to NU

2011 - 8 produced, 4 committed to NU

2010 - 5 produced, 4 committed to NU

2009 - 7 produced, 2 committed to NU

2008 - 10 produced, 6 committed to NU

2007 - 12 produced, 2 committed to NU

2006 - 11 produced, 4 committed to NU

2005 - 8 produced, 3 committed to NU

2004 - 11 produced, 5 committed to NU

2003 - 11 produced, 5 committed to NU

So, in the past three recruiting cycles, NE has produced 17 DIA prospects, and NU has commits from 5 of them.

At 29%, that's down significantly from the last staff's number of 50%.

Callahan's staff landed 33%.

Makes me mad to see how much talented was let go during our worst years as a program in decades.

The interesting component to dig into for me would be the lineman who have gone on to play at FCS or FBS schools other than Nebraska. NU fans consistently complain about a lack of depth on the lines, but it appears that we either don't make an effort or aren't successful in keeping the raw linemen talent within the borders. A guy who is 6'6 and 275, at least on paper, matches up well with almost any OL that we've offered during the past two seasons.

Looking at all D1 scholarships does nothing to speak to your point. Just because a kid gets a scholarship to Wyoming doesn't mean he deserved a scholarship to Nebraska. Heck, even a guy who go a scholarship to Kansas doesn't mean he deserved a scholarship to Nebraska. And just because they received a scholarship somewhere else doesn't mean they turned out to be a legitimate player.

You're going to have to do a lot better than those numbers to have any kind of a point.

 

[cm husker]

NU used to regularly recruit 5+ Nebraska kids a year. Either that old system made otherwise average athletes more successful than they would have been or there are a lot of "under appreciated" Nebraska kids being missed out on recently (and I don't limit this to Riley - it goes back aways).

Maybe it's both.

And the number of quality in state recruits has to be constant over time?NU also used to have more scholarships available so could afford to take more chances on in state kids.What was the last class of Nebraska high school kids that turned out 5+ legitimate Power 5 contributors?

Since 1973, in what year did Tom Osborne sign more recruits than he would have been allowed to under current rules?

Every year up to 1992 when the limit was dropped to the current 85

Incorrect. Almost all of tom's classes were below 25.

 

[Mavric]

NU used to regularly recruit 5+ Nebraska kids a year. Either that old system made otherwise average athletes more successful than they would have been or there are a lot of "under appreciated" Nebraska kids being missed out on recently (and I don't limit this to Riley - it goes back aways).

Maybe it's both.

And the number of quality in state recruits has to be constant over time?NU also used to have more scholarships available so could afford to take more chances on in state kids.What was the last class of Nebraska high school kids that turned out 5+ legitimate Power 5 contributors?

Since 1973, in what year did Tom Osborne sign more recruits than he would have been allowed to under current rules?

Every year up to 1992 when the limit was dropped to the current 85

Incorrect. Almost all of tom's classes were below 25.

And so are most of our classes now.

There were 10 extra scholarship. Thus he could sign more kids than he could have now. 2-3 per year, depending on how things worked out.

 

[Mavric]

too bad we don't have any organizations that measure the athletes skills at camps and are able to compare players from across the country based on those tests

Those organizations are mainly garbage when it comes to evaluating kids from smaller markets. Even though they have tried to pretend that they aren't.

What evidence do you have of this?

I'll send you a peer reviewed paper.

Still waiting on this and the other links you claim you have....

They are still awaiting peer review.

Please cut out this bulls#!^. Either you have a paper or you don't. If you don't have it to post, don't say you have it.

Also, what about the other links you claimed to have?

 

[Landlord]

Those organizations are mainly garbage when it comes to evaluating kids from smaller markets. Even though they have tried to pretend that they aren't.

What evidence do you have of this?

I'll send you a peer reviewed paper.

I'm really unclear on what baseless accusation that I've made.

 

[cm husker]

too bad we don't have any organizations that measure the athletes skills at camps and are able to compare players from across the country based on those tests

Those organizations are mainly garbage when it comes to evaluating kids from smaller markets. Even though they have tried to pretend that they aren't.

What evidence do you have of this?

I'll send you a peer reviewed paper.

Still waiting on this and the other links you claim you have....

They are still awaiting peer review.

But in the mean time, NE has produced the following DI recruits:

2017 - 6 have accepted DIA offers so far, 1 has committed to NU

2016 - 6 produced, 2 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Fant, Bubak and Lenners (NU took Stoll)

2015 - 5 produced, 2 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Holtorf (NU took Davis twins that year)

2014 - 4 produced, 3 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Phillips (NU took Stolenberg, Wills and King at DE that year)

2013 - 4 produced, 1 committed to NU Guys who got away to P5 schools include Bazata (NU took Collins and Maurice at DT that year)

EDIT FOR MORE DATA POINTS:

2012 - 4 produced, 1 committed to NU

2011 - 8 produced, 4 committed to NU

2010 - 5 produced, 4 committed to NU

2009 - 7 produced, 2 committed to NU

2008 - 10 produced, 6 committed to NU

2007 - 12 produced, 2 committed to NU

2006 - 11 produced, 4 committed to NU

2005 - 8 produced, 3 committed to NU

2004 - 11 produced, 5 committed to NU

2003 - 11 produced, 5 committed to NU

So, in the past three recruiting cycles, NE has produced 17 DIA prospects, and NU has commits from 5 of them.

At 29%, that's down significantly from the last staff's number of 50%.

Callahan's staff landed 33%.

Makes me mad to see how much talented was let go during our worst years as a program in decades.

The interesting component to dig into for me would be the lineman who have gone on to play at FCS or FBS schools other than Nebraska. NU fans consistently complain about a lack of depth on the lines, but it appears that we either don't make an effort or aren't successful in keeping the raw linemen talent within the borders. A guy who is 6'6 and 275, at least on paper, matches up well with almost any OL that we've offered during the past two seasons.

Looking at all D1 scholarships does nothing to speak to your point. Just because a kid gets a scholarship to Wyoming doesn't mean he deserved a scholarship to Nebraska. Heck, even a guy who go a scholarship to Kansas doesn't mean he deserved a scholarship to Nebraska. And just because they received a scholarship somewhere else doesn't mean they turned out to be a legitimate player.
You're going to have to do a lot better than those numbers to have any kind of a point.

Sure man. I'll try to pull together the P5 numbers tomorrow. But I wont make much effort at it because you're already convinced of... what? That NU doesn't need NE talent?

 

[cm husker]

NU used to regularly recruit 5+ Nebraska kids a year. Either that old system made otherwise average athletes more successful than they would have been or there are a lot of "under appreciated" Nebraska kids being missed out on recently (and I don't limit this to Riley - it goes back aways).

Maybe it's both.

And the number of quality in state recruits has to be constant over time?NU also used to have more scholarships available so could afford to take more chances on in state kids.What was the last class of Nebraska high school kids that turned out 5+ legitimate Power 5 contributors?

Since 1973, in what year did Tom Osborne sign more recruits than he would have been allowed to under current rules?

Every year up to 1992 when the limit was dropped to the current 85

Incorrect. Almost all of tom's classes were below 25.

And so are most of our classes now.
There were 10 extra scholarship. Thus he could sign more kids than he could have now. 2-3 per year, depending on how things worked out.

Yet he didn't. Look at the numbers.

 

[cm husker]

Those organizations are mainly garbage when it comes to evaluating kids from smaller markets. Even though they have tried to pretend that they aren't.

What evidence do you have of this?

I'll send you a peer reviewed paper.

I'm really unclear on what baseless accusation that I've made.

Google "why recruiting services are bullsh#t" and you'll find a hell of a lot of materials.

Hell, even lemming speaks of their limited value.

 

[cm husker]

A number of the running backs you mentioned above (Benning and Childs, for easy examples), would have likely "languished" as backups at other schools. Many of those Omaha guys were sprinters with good, but not great, ball carrying skills. Through a combination of great position coaching and a system that was wholly designed to outnumber defenses at the point of attack, these guys were given an opportunity to show off great speed - but they weren't really asked to do the type of running we ask of RBs today (let alone pass pro).

That was part of the awesomeness of that system.

Now you're just making stuff up. By all accounts Childs may have been the best athlete on the team. Would have played almost anywhere.

Not making anything up - Childs visited no where else (maybe because he didn't want to, which I respect) and he was a career back up (a highly talented one, but backup nonetheless). He had no career in the NFL, going undrafted his senior year.

I love the guy and what he contributed at NU, but he and Benning and a number of other NU IBs definitely benefited from the system. It's not at all clear to me that he would have been a starter "almost anywhere."

Of course it's not clear to you. You don't want to believe it. What evidence do you have that they would have only been backups at other schools?

So your theory is that NE talent mysteriously dried up after decades of production.

That's plausible, I gues.