In-State Talent vs. Out-State Talent

[cm husker]

break down the numbers by year so we can see how you got to this overall number of 94.

Here's a link. http://nebraska.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/Commits

I'm on phone, but as I recall, it was 23, 22, 25 and 24 commits working from 2016 back to 2013.

 

[swmohusker]

break down the numbers by year so we can see how you got to this overall number of 94.

Here's a link. http://nebraska.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/Commits

I'm on phone, but as I recall, it was 23, 22, 25 and 24 commits working from 2016 back to 2013.

Those numbers involve guys who never made it to campus like Monte harrison, Lorenzo Stewart, Robert Lockhart, etc...

 

[cm husker]

break down the numbers by year so we can see how you got to this overall number of 94.

Here's a link. http://nebraska.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CommitsI'm on phone, but as I recall, it was 23, 22, 25 and 24 commits working from 2016 back to 2013.

Those numbers involve guys who never made it to campus like Monte harrison, Lorenzo Stewart, Robert Lockhart, etc...

And so do numbers from before. Point is, TO would have been fine under current scholarship limits.

 

[swmohusker]

break down the numbers by year so we can see how you got to this overall number of 94.

Here's a link. http://nebraska.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CommitsI'm on phone, but as I recall, it was 23, 22, 25 and 24 commits working from 2016 back to 2013.

Those numbers involve guys who never made it to campus like Monte harrison, Lorenzo Stewart, Robert Lockhart, etc...

And so do numbers from before. Point is, TO would have been fine under current scholarship limits.

There are some preferred walk ons included in those number you presented too. Brandon hohenstein, Isaac Armstrong, and a few others

 

[swmohusker]

break down the numbers by year so we can see how you got to this overall number of 94.

Here's a link. http://nebraska.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CommitsI'm on phone, but as I recall, it was 23, 22, 25 and 24 commits working from 2016 back to 2013.

Those numbers involve guys who never made it to campus like Monte harrison, Lorenzo Stewart, Robert Lockhart, etc...

And so do numbers from before. Point is, TO would have been fine under current scholarship limits.

There are some preferred walk ons included in those number you presented too. Brandon hohenstein, Isaac Armstrong, and a few others

 

[cm husker]

What others?

Because even subtracting those two or three it's still basically a wash with what TO was doing.

 

[Mavric]

So you're just ignoring attrition now?

How many kids have been signed to NU in the past 4 years? How about on average at an SEC school?

Well, it's your assertion that TO was - for unknown reasons - self-imposing a 10 scholarship reduction on himself. I think it would be up to you to prove that.

So go ahead and show how 31 of the 116 players signed from 85-89 were no longer on the team in 89.

And some reasoning for why Osborne was not using his full compliment of scholarships would be handy.

 

[cm husker]

So you're just ignoring attrition now?

How many kids have been signed to NU in the past 4 years? How about on average at an SEC school?

Well, it's your assertion that TO was - for unknown reasons - self-imposing a 10 scholarship reduction on himself. I think it would be up to you to prove that.

So go ahead and show how 31 of the 116 players signed from 85-89 were no longer on the team in 89.

And some reasoning for why Osborne was not using his full compliment of scholarships would be handy.

I didn't have time to do a full check of all years but wanted to reply based on what I found using these links:

http://www.huskermax.com/rosters/1989.html

http://www.huskermax.com/recruits/1985.html

http://www.huskermax.com/recruits/1986.html

http://www.huskermax.com/recruits/1987.html

At least 22 scholarship players from those classes weren't on the Husker roster by '89. I limited the quick count to only those players that never received a letter, so there may have been a handful more who had left by '89, including guys from the '88 and '89 classes who never made it to campus or left early for other reasons.

As for the reasons why TO maintained a roster like he did, I've never read his specific thoughts on it. I do know there's a lot of mythology around powerhouse teams signing giant classes - from what I've been able to gather, (A) that was generally way overstated and exceedingly rare, and (B) NU didn't engage in the practice. Generally, TO used to talk about how finding scholarships wasn't the problem - it was finding guys qualified for the scholarships (I seem to remember that from around a 1990 recruiting press conference).

EDIT: Added a few more players who had left by '89 from the '85 class.

The list:

1985 scholarship class

Avant (no letters)

Ching (no letters)

Deshazer (no letters)

Trenton Flowers (no letters)

Hinson (no letters)

Lamb (no letters)

Moore (no letters)

Murrell (no letters)

Novacek (no letters)

Rice (no letters)

Davis (2 letters)

Etienne (4 letters)

Taylor (4 letters)

Thomas (4 letters)

1986 scholarship class

Hasley (no letters)

Hroza (no letters)

Lair (no letters)

Miller (no letters)

Darwin Snyder (no letters)

1987 scholarship class

Herman (no letters)

Keneipp (no letters)

Lohmeier (no letters)

Jackson (2 letters)

1988 scholarship class

Jeremiah Clark (no letters)

Bart James (no letters)

Vic Stachmus (no letters)

Chris Ybarra (no letters)

1989 scholarship class

Marvin Callies (no letters)

Howard Carter (no letters)

Daryl Green (no letters)

Chad Hunter (no letters)

 

[Mavric]

So you found 22 players out of 116. That means there were 94 scholarship players on the roster. Which is more than he could have now.

Thanks for playing.

 

[MinnwiscowaSker]

Save the anger for the polls!

 

[cm husker]

So you found 22 players out of 116. That means there were 94 scholarship players on the roster. Which is more than he could have now.

Thanks for playing.

Sigh. I'm really not trying to be confrontational on this point - I gave you the data I had time to gather at that time.

Since then, I updated the list to show the two other classes. That added 9 guys who weren't on the team as of the '89 roster, so, it brings the number to 85.

Granted, that's right up against the limit, but TO brought in fewer recruits than many P5 programs are doing lately. Yes, there may have needed to be more attrition than what we saw traditionally saw under TO, but his base recruiting numbers were in line from what we see today.

I know you started at 1989 and went backward, but have a look at the 90s - the classes that constituted the championship teams. From the '90 class to his last class in '97, the Huskers signed an average of 22 recruits a year.

By comparison, the following teams have signed the following numbers during the most recent recruiting cycles:

Alabama - 126 (25.2)

Ohio State - 124 (24.8)

Oklahoma - 124 (24.8)

Nebraska - 109 (21.8) - this low number of scholarship players is an oft criticized "failure" by the last staff

One can't look at TO"s recruiting classes and reasonably conclude he was signing more kids in the 80s and early 90s than what is allowed under today's rules. Perhaps he wasn't booting them as quickly as some other schools do, but he wasn't starting with more scholarship athletes than what he'd be allowed today.

Nebraska Classes

1990 - 20

1991 - 22

1992 - 24

1993 - 21

1994 - 21

1995 - 28

1996 - 18

1997 - 22

 

[Xmas32]

So you found 22 players out of 116. That means there were 94 scholarship players on the roster. Which is more than he could have now.

Thanks for playing.

Sigh. I'm really not trying to be confrontational on this point - I gave you the data I had time to gather at that time.

Since then, I updated the list to show the two other classes. That added 9 guys who weren't on the team as of the '89 roster, so, it brings the number to 85.

Granted, that's right up against the limit, but TO brought in fewer recruits than many P5 programs are doing lately. Yes, there may have needed to be more attrition than what we saw traditionally saw under TO, but his base recruiting numbers were in line from what we see today.

I know you started at 1989 and went backward, but have a look at the 90s - the classes that constituted the championship teams. From the '90 class to his last class in '97, the Huskers signed an average of 22 recruits a year.

By comparison, the following teams have signed the following numbers during the most recent recruiting cycles:

Alabama - 126 (25.2)

Ohio State - 124 (24.8)

Oklahoma - 124 (24.8)

Nebraska - 109 (21.8) - this low number of scholarship players is an oft criticized "failure" by the last staff

One can't look at TO"s recruiting classes and reasonably conclude he was signing more kids in the 80s and early 90s than what is allowed under today's rules. Perhaps he wasn't booting them as quickly as some other schools do, but he wasn't starting with more scholarship athletes than what he'd be allowed today.

Nebraska Classes

1990 - 20

1991 - 22

1992 - 24

1993 - 21

1994 - 21

1995 - 28

1996 - 18

1997 - 22

Compelling and rich....

 

[commando]

still living in 1995 in this thread?

 

[Mavric]

Since then, I updated the list to show the two other classes. That added 9 guys who weren't on the team as of the '89 roster, so, it brings the number to 85.

Granted, that's right up against the limit, but TO brought in fewer recruits than many P5 programs are doing lately. Yes, there may have needed to be more attrition than what we saw traditionally saw under TO, but his base recruiting numbers were in line from what we see today.

Still wrong. You can't count the guys from the 89 class who didn't make it to campus as not being able to sign them. That's still four guys that signed that would have been over the limit on signing day.

And you're only look at one side of the coin. How many walk-ons were given scholarships during that time? Those would have added to the number and subtracted further from the number we could sign in 89.

I know you started at 1989 and went backward, but have a look at the 90s - the classes that constituted the championship teams. From the '90 class to his last class in '97, the Huskers signed an average of 22 recruits a year.

No s#!^.

Once the NCAA lowered the scholarship limit we didn't sign as many guys. That's a great observation.

 

[cm husker]

Teams often oversign with an expectation that they will not get everyone to campus or someone will leave, so I'm not sure why you discount that factor.

I think you still aren't addressing the central point, which is that TO brought in fewer scholarship athletes on a rolling average than several teams do today. And this is all against a backdrop that through the 80s, a team could only carry 10 more scholarship players each season than they do today. Not a major difference - it's basically the question of whether you can honor a commitment or move a guy on as a "hardship scholarship."

I agree that the scholarship rules would be detrimental to walkons. It's one of my several issues that I have with the scholarship limits that hurt atheletes' opportunities but had very little impact on "leveling the playing field."

I wish we had better data about how many w/o's were in scholarship each year under TO. I haven't been able to find much.