The Republican Utopia

HuskermanMike said:
knapplc said:
"Blame" is a harsh word. What are we going to do, haul BRI up in front of a tribunal and shine spotlights in his face?

The biggest thing I want those who voted for Trump to do is... not do it again. That's the end of the recrimination. We're not naming names, we're not blaming you. Just don't vote for that kind of candidate ever again. It looks like, from the last couple of days, BRI has swung around. I'm super happy with that.

I don't super appreciate being called out like that, especially when I wasn't part of that conversation, but what I've written above is the extent of that.
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What if some feel he is doing a good job? Are they allowed to be mocked and spit at and tortured for supporting a candidate? I mean it seems like I will be shut down and called names for supporting a candidate. If he makes a mistake, so be it, are we not all human(Now if its military mistake that is a different story). My point is, if he runs again and wins people will be mad, if he says I am done after four years people will get mad and bash him regardless. Anyone ever thought about his feelings because he does have them and I feel he has been the most insulted president to run since...........Abe Lincoln. So why don't we all just get along, oh wait that won't happen because it is peoples mission to see a president fail then have him succeed. Did I support Obama? No, did I try to hope he would fail, no way I respected the president and allowed him his space before bashing him.

In the military guess what happens when you see a pic of the president, do you see graffiti on a pic of him? Nope, because they have a respect for the commander in chief and he is their boss. I challenge all to have a certain respect with our president no matter what your views are? Do you have to agree with him, no, do you have to like him, no. I feel as though we need to dig deep inside and respect the man, but you don't have to agree or disagree with him. If you want to call him out on an issue go ahead, by all means this is America but I feel people are panicking and using biases instead of looking forward to a great country.

End rant.

Super busy tonight so might not get responses back for a while.
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Mike,

I waited till this morning to be at a computer instead of trying to type this out on my phone last night.

I don't blame people who voted for Trump in the general election. They were given a choice between very few candidates. Most people are going to look at the top two candidates and try to make a decision between those two. If you take all party politics out, the decision between those two left most people less than enthused.

Who I DO blame are the people who voted for Trump early in the Primaries. Those are the people who set this in motion. Trump was doing nothing but standing on stage, yelling at people, calling people names, attacking the press....basically acting like a total a$$....and a certain amount of people ate it up. I just flat out don't understand it. Here was a grown man acting like a second grade bully and some people loved it.

Once that happened, nobody else really had a choice. Republican voters in Nebraska sure didn't have a choice.

I am trying to give the guy a chance. However, every time I do, he does things that reminds me that he is flat out just a total jack a$$. He cries and whines because people don't give him respect but then he doesn't respect anyone unless they are falling at his feet worshiping him. He has proven over and over again over the last 18 months that he totally makes crap up and flat out lies about it. And...by all indications, this is what he is going to base policy on. He has proven he has no clue about what he can and can't do in the office and basic constitutional law.

A prime example is when he went to the CIA. He had an opportunity to honor the people on that wall and the work the people are doing that were sitting in the room. He started to do that. But, then fairly quickly switched to bragging about himself and picking more at the fight with the media. This leaves me and others with the feeling of....what a total jacka$$. When I first started seeing complaints about his speech, I thought...Oh, people are exaggerating. So, I went and listened to the entire thing. It was flat out disgusting. Then, you have Spicer come into the press briefing crying that the press wasn't treating them with respect and it's "demoralizing". The press isn't treating Trump any different than he treats other people. Trump disrespects people, calls them names, doesn't follow law or protocol....etc....but, then when people do that back, he cries and whimpers about not being treated fairly. Give me an Fing break.

The entire thing is like grade school play ground crap. And....he's the bully. Well, when I was in grade school, my father gave me some great advice. When you think kids aren't liking you or wanting to play with you, then go off and start doing something really fun and they will want to come join you.

Trump is like the little kid someone needs to give advice to on how to respect others.

And, quite frankly, it pisses me off that the conservative movement I have always thought I was a part of has come to this point. It's flat out embarrassing.

PS.....about your paragraph on the military having respect for the Commander and Chief because he is their boss. Well.....that may be so. But, he isn't my boss our your boss. Actually, WE are HIS boss. That is a part I don't think he gets. He doesn't own the US and has the ability to do whatever he wants. We as citizens of the US and as HIS BOSS have put forth over the history of the country, certain things the President must abide by to do his job.

 
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knapplc said:
Yes.

LINK

To further provide the example, Trump's Executive Order bans Muslims from: Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. Conspicuously missing from that list? Indonesia, where he's currently pursuing business deals. Another Trump business partner not included on the list: Saudi Arabia.
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Really? This is your proof that his business interests are the deciding factor for which countries he is banning muslim immigration from and which he is allowing it?

Looks to me like he has identified the correct countries and the ones with the most potential problems. It is worth noting that 2016 saw a record influx of Muslim immigration to the US and the first year ever that Muslim immigration exceeded Christian immigration. None of those 7 countries would be defined as friendly to the US, whereas I think Saudi Arabia does fit that category. Trump has interests in about 144 companies in 25 different countries. Is it really hard to believe that he does not in what are arguably the 7 unfriendliest countries to the US? I don't see how this proves his business interests have one thing to do with his policy as regards this. I guess we could hold it against him that he doesn't do business in more countries or that he didn't ban more countries but that wouldn't be very consistent with also vilifying him for placing a temporary ban from any country or claiming he is too involved globally. The fact that he does have business interests in a couple countries that possibly could have been worthy of the list is, like I originally said, quite the stretch. Pretty weak sauce IMO.

 
El Diaco said:
knapplc said:
Yes.

LINK

To further provide the example, Trump's Executive Order bans Muslims from: Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. Conspicuously missing from that list? Indonesia, where he's currently pursuing business deals. Another Trump business partner not included on the list: Saudi Arabia.
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Really? This is your proof that his business interests are the deciding factor for which countries he is banning muslim immigration from and which he is allowing it?

Looks to me like he has identified the correct countries and the ones with the most potential problems. It is worth noting that 2016 saw a record influx of Muslim immigration to the US and the first year ever that Muslim immigration exceeded Christian immigration. None of those 7 countries would be defined as friendly to the US, whereas I think Saudi Arabia does fit that category. Trump has interests in about 144 companies in 25 different countries. Is it really hard to believe that he does not in what are arguably the 7 unfriendliest countries to the US? I don't see how this proves his business interests have one thing to do with his policy as regards this. I guess we could hold it against him that he doesn't do business in more countries or that he didn't ban more countries but that wouldn't be very consistent with also vilifying him for placing a temporary ban from any country or claiming he is too involved globally. The fact that he does have business interests in a couple countries that possibly could have been worthy of the list is, like I originally said, quite the stretch. Pretty weak sauce IMO.
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15 of the 19 sept. 11 terrorists were saudi

edit to add....so was Bin Laden

 
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commando said:
QMany said:
knapplc said:
Yes.

LINK

To further provide the example, Trump's Executive Order bans Muslims from: Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. Conspicuously missing from that list? Indonesia, where he's currently pursuing business deals. Another Trump business partner not included on the list: Saudi Arabia.
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I'm sure it is just a coincidence.
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can't do anything that would hurt his bottom line.
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How much business could any of us conduct in countries that have been banned for travel by the US government?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe Trump is the one who banned travel to these countries. That happened long before 6 days ago.

Gee, could there possibly be a good reason why travel was banned to those countries and why Trump now wants to also temporarily ban immigration from those same countries?

 
El Diaco said:
knapplc said:
Yes.

LINK

To further provide the example, Trump's Executive Order bans Muslims from: Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. Conspicuously missing from that list? Indonesia, where he's currently pursuing business deals. Another Trump business partner not included on the list: Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...
Really? This is your proof that his business interests are the deciding factor for which countries he is banning muslim immigration from and which he is allowing it?

Looks to me like he has identified the correct countries and the ones with the most potential problems. It is worth noting that 2016 saw a record influx of Muslim immigration to the US and the first year ever that Muslim immigration exceeded Christian immigration. None of those 7 countries would be defined as friendly to the US, whereas I think Saudi Arabia does fit that category. Trump has interests in about 144 companies in 25 different countries. Is it really hard to believe that he does not in what are arguably the 7 unfriendliest countries to the US? I don't see how this proves his business interests have one thing to do with his policy as regards this. I guess we could hold it against him that he doesn't do business in more countries or that he didn't ban more countries but that wouldn't be very consistent with also vilifying him for placing a temporary ban from any country or claiming he is too involved globally. The fact that he does have business interests in a couple countries that possibly could have been worthy of the list is, like I originally said, quite the stretch. Pretty weak sauce IMO.
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So you're giving the whole executive order a pass because you choose not to believe, with supporting evidence like "...2016 saw a record influx of Muslim immigration to the US and the first year ever that Muslim immigration exceeded Christian immigration," that Trump would have ulterior motives with this move.

OK.

 
commando said:
El Diaco said:
knapplc said:
Yes.

LINK

To further provide the example, Trump's Executive Order bans Muslims from: Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. Conspicuously missing from that list? Indonesia, where he's currently pursuing business deals. Another Trump business partner not included on the list: Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...
Really? This is your proof that his business interests are the deciding factor for which countries he is banning muslim immigration from and which he is allowing it?

Looks to me like he has identified the correct countries and the ones with the most potential problems. It is worth noting that 2016 saw a record influx of Muslim immigration to the US and the first year ever that Muslim immigration exceeded Christian immigration. None of those 7 countries would be defined as friendly to the US, whereas I think Saudi Arabia does fit that category. Trump has interests in about 144 companies in 25 different countries. Is it really hard to believe that he does not in what are arguably the 7 unfriendliest countries to the US? I don't see how this proves his business interests have one thing to do with his policy as regards this. I guess we could hold it against him that he doesn't do business in more countries or that he didn't ban more countries but that wouldn't be very consistent with also vilifying him for placing a temporary ban from any country or claiming he is too involved globally. The fact that he does have business interests in a couple countries that possibly could have been worthy of the list is, like I originally said, quite the stretch. Pretty weak sauce IMO.
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15 of the 19 sept. 11 terrorists were saudi
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I know this.

We also operate military bases in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's have historically cooperated with the US government. If I recall, I think we based our Desert Storm operations out of their country and they also provided troops to the coalition. And they happen to be a pretty huge player in our countries Mideast oil interests.

Still, none of this proves that his personal business interests have one thing to do with this policy decision. There are plenty of things he can be legitimately criticized for. Why the tendency to criticize absolutely everything, even the things that make pretty damn good sense?

 
I'm a little late to the party on this, and don't have all the specifics, but don't some of his interests lie in licensing of his name? So he wouldn't have to be a US person doing business there if a local owned it and payed him royalties and etc. Don't know that it's the case, but I don't buy into the fact that because the US says no travel that he has no interest there.

 
El Diaco said:
commando said:
El Diaco said:
knapplc said:
Yes.

LINK

To further provide the example, Trump's Executive Order bans Muslims from: Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. Conspicuously missing from that list? Indonesia, where he's currently pursuing business deals. Another Trump business partner not included on the list: Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...
Really? This is your proof that his business interests are the deciding factor for which countries he is banning muslim immigration from and which he is allowing it?

Looks to me like he has identified the correct countries and the ones with the most potential problems. It is worth noting that 2016 saw a record influx of Muslim immigration to the US and the first year ever that Muslim immigration exceeded Christian immigration. None of those 7 countries would be defined as friendly to the US, whereas I think Saudi Arabia does fit that category. Trump has interests in about 144 companies in 25 different countries. Is it really hard to believe that he does not in what are arguably the 7 unfriendliest countries to the US? I don't see how this proves his business interests have one thing to do with his policy as regards this. I guess we could hold it against him that he doesn't do business in more countries or that he didn't ban more countries but that wouldn't be very consistent with also vilifying him for placing a temporary ban from any country or claiming he is too involved globally. The fact that he does have business interests in a couple countries that possibly could have been worthy of the list is, like I originally said, quite the stretch. Pretty weak sauce IMO.
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15 of the 19 sept. 11 terrorists were saudi
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I know this.

We also operate military bases in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's have historically cooperated with the US government. If I recall, I think we based our Desert Storm operations out of their country and they also provided troops to the coalition. And they happen to be a pretty huge player in our countries Mideast oil interests.

Still, none of this proves that his personal business interests have one thing to do with this policy decision. There are plenty of things he can be legitimately criticized for. Why the tendency to criticize absolutely everything, even the things that make pretty damn good sense?
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if most of the terrorists who have done the most damage in the u.s. have come from saudi arabia it makes no sense to not ban them also IMO. but hey...herr Trump knows everything about everything so never mind what makes sense or no sense to me.

 
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It's telling that we're requiring more stringent facts regarding Trump's business dealings before they'll be believed than we required for things like his tax disclosures.

If you can't believe Trump has ethical conflicts with 144 companies in 25 different companies unless you have absolute proof, why wouldn't you demand to see his taxes before voting for him?

 
knapplc said:
El Diaco said:
knapplc said:
Yes.

LINK

To further provide the example, Trump's Executive Order bans Muslims from: Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. Conspicuously missing from that list? Indonesia, where he's currently pursuing business deals. Another Trump business partner not included on the list: Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...
Really? This is your proof that his business interests are the deciding factor for which countries he is banning muslim immigration from and which he is allowing it?

Looks to me like he has identified the correct countries and the ones with the most potential problems. It is worth noting that 2016 saw a record influx of Muslim immigration to the US and the first year ever that Muslim immigration exceeded Christian immigration. None of those 7 countries would be defined as friendly to the US, whereas I think Saudi Arabia does fit that category. Trump has interests in about 144 companies in 25 different countries. Is it really hard to believe that he does not in what are arguably the 7 unfriendliest countries to the US? I don't see how this proves his business interests have one thing to do with his policy as regards this. I guess we could hold it against him that he doesn't do business in more countries or that he didn't ban more countries but that wouldn't be very consistent with also vilifying him for placing a temporary ban from any country or claiming he is too involved globally. The fact that he does have business interests in a couple countries that possibly could have been worthy of the list is, like I originally said, quite the stretch. Pretty weak sauce IMO.
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So you're giving the whole executive order a pass because you choose not to believe, with supporting evidence like "...2016 saw a record influx of Muslim immigration to the US and the first year ever that Muslim immigration exceeded Christian immigration," that Trump would have ulterior motives with this move.

OK.
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What? That is not a logical conclusion to what I posted at all.

First, that was not my supporting evidence of anything other than there may be legitimate concerns for banning immigration from certain countries. And second, you are the one making unproven claims that he has ulterior motives. When such a claim is only cursory in nature and it doesn't appear to be as, or more, compelling than the legitimate reasons for banning immigration from those countries, then yes, I will ask for more compelling evidence.

And, so I am very clear with my position, I think placing a temporary ban on immigration from those countries is a great idea.

Is this where/when people turn this into an I must support everything Trump thing? Seems like people want to make 2 camps; either you're against everything or you must be for everything. Personally I think that is complete bullsh#t. I've seen a whole lot of the against everything Trump crowd but I have yet to see anyone supporting everything. I sure don't support everything but I will speak up when I see something worth supporting.

 
Is this where/when people turn this into an I must support everything Trump thing? Seems like people want to make 2 camps; either you're against everything or you must be for everything. Personally I think that is complete bullsh#t.
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I support Trump's proposals on national infrastructure (pending further review), so if this is the case, I guess I'm in the "I support everything Trump does" straw man you're trying to create here.

And, so I am very clear with my position, I think placing a temporary ban on immigration from those countries is a great idea.
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What will that accomplish, other than harming refugees?

 
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