United Airlines PR Disaster

[Ratt Mhule]

Anyone who says a doctor is not more important than say, a fast food employee is freakin nuts. Thats just the way society is. People get paid more because their job is more important.

So, I'm more important than you? I might like it in your twisted world.

Your job may be. Im not saying him as a person is more important. Im saying his job is more importantIts called socio-economic status. I didnt invent it, but it damn sure exists

Okay, so his socioeconomic status determines that, as a paying customer on an airline, his time is to be valued more than anyone else's?I think what you want is a world where people are ranked based on their job. Heck, let's take it the rest of the way and require everyone to get a dna test and we'll rank people's importance based on their potential as a human being. I smell a wonderful sci-fi thriller in the works.

This argument that some people are more important than others...stupidest sh#t I've heard in a long, long time. And I've frequented HB for a long, long time.

BTW, I do agree his job may be more important than many others. Still doesn't mean jackshit on a commercial flight. Anybody that is too important to be subjected to equal treatment as all other passengers better be making different travel arrangements or better yet staying right the hell where they are so gd important.

Equal treatment would be everyone on that plane getting kicked off. Everyone on that plane was there for a reason. And their time mattered. Im not saying the doctor was more important than everyone else on that plane. His JOB is extremely important. Not only for him to support himself and family, but for other folks and their families also. He should have never been kicked off. The three others never should have been kicked off. If there are no volunteers then United needs to find other options for their employees. And especially if a paying customer says I cant get off, I need to get where Im going now, that should be end of it and United needs to figure out the rest. He paid for a ticket at that time on that day because he was in a time crunch as was everyone on that plane.
If I pay for a plane ticket. Or a hotel. Or a meal. I expect things to get done the way I paid for them. And a good business would make sure the customer is satisfied. United did not in this case. The man did nothing wrong.

 

[Ratt Mhule]

So when it's closing time, and the bouncer says it's time to go, if you dilly dally you are asking to be assaulted?

"Dilly dally" might not be the proper term for the analogy. I think it was more like, "I'm not leaving this bar, if you want me to leave you'll have to throw me out". Does anybody wonder what is going to happen here?I think the disconnect between the two arguments is pretty simple. There is the way things should be and the reality of the way things are.

The way things should be:

Airlines should not overbook flights.

Airlines should not bump paying customers.

Airlines should not bump any customer in favor of their own employees.

Airlines should keep offering higher compensation until they get volunteers.

Airlines need to be responsible for the number of passengers and total weight onboard.

A contract of carriage is necessary for the airline to operate.

No persons time should be valued more than another's.

All people are equal-a doctor is no more important than an unemployed housewife travelling for pleasure.

Nobody should suffer physical harm, ever.

Anyplace that sells ice cream should make hot fudge sundaes free on Fridays.

The way things are (aka reality)

Airlines over book flights.

Airlines bump customers.

Some airlines give priority to their own employees.

Some airlines set a limit on what they'll offer as compensation. (Maybe not anymore because of this)

Some airlines may choose to enforce the contract of carriage and remove passengers against their will.

People, especially those who do not comply with lawful orders, may require physical handling if they do not comply.

Some people who choose the physical handling route may end up getting hurt.

Hot fudge sundaes are rarely given away for free.

I think some involved in this discussion think they live in a world only controlled by the way things should be. And some of those are failing to realize that a doctor's time is no more important than anybody else's. IMO, there is a fair amount of failure to acknowledge the way things are (aka reality) in this thread. Newsflash, we live in an imperfect world.

Maybe everyone should try the "should" approach next time a police officer wants to pull you over for a traffic violation. You don't have time to comply with those lights and siren, just keep going, you shouldn't have to comply. See how it works out for ya. When you get done you can rent Lala Land and feel right at home.

*BTW, this is not all directed at you NM. It just ended up in my response to you*

You just asked knapp about comparing this to message board politics, so I'm asking you the same thing about the traffic stop. How is that a good comparison?If a police officer wrongly pulls me over, I might get a warning or a ticket and be 10 minutes late. It's very unlikely I'll completely miss several meetings and possibly lose clients or my job. I also won't have to go through the hassel of spending the night in a hotel I don't want to be in and 3 hours in someone else's garage waiting for my next car ride.

The amount of inconvenience someone has to put up with when they comply is important here.

I'm not a Dr. and don't have meetings with clients every day and I have plenty of PTO left, so I would have taken the $. But that doesn't mean he should have. Nor does it mean anyone on the plane should've been asked to leave once they had boarded.

What if he had been flying to his mom's funeral and missing this flight meant he couldn't go?

So we're returning to should've land already?I agree, it SHOULDN'T have happened.

You fell off the analogy as soon as you said "wrongly" pulled over. No, you actually broke the law, just like this passenger did when he failed to comply with the terms of the contract of carriage. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Yes, United's behavior was atrocious. They caused this problem to occur but dang people, we don't get to always do only as we damn well please. Until they change the contract of carriage, anyone who flies is subject to it. And until somebody puts a bullet in my head, there is not another single person on this earth more important than you or me or anyone.

Cause those who have been in full support for the doctor and the doctor only don't care about authority and/or laws.

Nope, if a law is just and an authority figure isnt overstepping his duties then I have all the respect in the world for them. If an officer comes up to me out of nowhere and asks to see my ID, Im not going to hand over my ID unless he has probable cause that I committed a crime. Why? Because we also have laws in this country that protect us. And its people like you that give into every command why cops think its okay to pull that sh#t

Lol if a cop asked for my ID, I'm going to give him my ID cause I have nothing to hide.What's really your issue with cops?

Nothing. Most cops are good people. I went to school to become a cop for two years before having a change of heart. But I also like my rights and dont want to lose them. Even if I have nothing to hide. This isnt Nazi Germany where the gestapo can stop you for no reason and ask for your papers.
And a good cop who doesnt abuse his authority would say the same thing I just told you.

 

[Redux]

Offer an unpopular perspective, get pounced on by the pack. Yikes

 

[knapplc]

I think it's rude to refer to Dewiz and El Diaco as "the pack," but whatever, man.

 

[Apathy]

Offer an unpopular perspective, get pounced on by the pack. Yikes

Lol

 

[commando]

i think every global corporation has the right to sh#t on any customer of theirs that they wish to at any time.

 

[JJ Husker]

i think every global corporation has the right to sh#t on any customer of theirs that they wish to at any time.

Unfortunately they do. Luckily, consumers also have the right to not patronize those businesses.

 

[Redux]

Am I the only one that didn't miss the part where ED said he doesn't condone the way they handled it? Lol

 

[JJ Husker]

Anyone who says a doctor is not more important than say, a fast food employee is freakin nuts. Thats just the way society is. People get paid more because their job is more important.

So, I'm more important than you? I might like it in your twisted world.

Your job may be. Im not saying him as a person is more important. Im saying his job is more importantIts called socio-economic status. I didnt invent it, but it damn sure exists

Okay, so his socioeconomic status determines that, as a paying customer on an airline, his time is to be valued more than anyone else's?I think what you want is a world where people are ranked based on their job. Heck, let's take it the rest of the way and require everyone to get a dna test and we'll rank people's importance based on their potential as a human being. I smell a wonderful sci-fi thriller in the works.

This argument that some people are more important than others...stupidest sh#t I've heard in a long, long time. And I've frequented HB for a long, long time.

BTW, I do agree his job may be more important than many others. Still doesn't mean jackshit on a commercial flight. Anybody that is too important to be subjected to equal treatment as all other passengers better be making different travel arrangements or better yet staying right the hell where they are so gd important.

Equal treatment would be everyone on that plane getting kicked off. Everyone on that plane was there for a reason. And their time mattered. Im not saying the doctor was more important than everyone else on that plane. His JOB is extremely important. Not only for him to support himself and family, but for other folks and their families also. He should have never been kicked off. The three others never should have been kicked off. If there are no volunteers then United needs to find other options for their employees. And especially if a paying customer says I cant get off, I need to get where Im going now, that should be end of it and United needs to figure out the rest. He paid for a ticket at that time on that day because he was in a time crunch as was everyone on that plane.If I pay for a plane ticket. Or a hotel. Or a meal. I expect things to get done the way I paid for them. And a good business would make sure the customer is satisfied. United did not in this case. The man did nothing wrong.

So, considering that United did not choose to do the right thing (because they didn't), what should've happened?
1- The person who was unlucky enough to be chosen for removal should've got of the plane under his own power.

2- Somebody less important should've been forced to take the bullet for him.

3- Since he refused to get off, they should've cancelled the flight inconveniencing all customers (you know, to be fair).

4- He should've fought the removal and been injured in the process.

These are your only choices considering United didn't do the right thing. So what's the correct answer?

 

[C N Red]

nm

 

[Mierin]

Anyone who says a doctor is not more important than say, a fast food employee is freakin nuts. Thats just the way society is. People get paid more because their job is more important.

So, I'm more important than you? I might like it in your twisted world.

So we should all be compensated the same because we are all equal. Everyone should be given a living wage, free college and free health care. I like your newfound philosophy.

What the hell does a person's compensation have to do with their worth as a human being. JFC people...

You're the one who brought up people's worth as human beings. That's not what anyone's actually talking about when they say a Dr. needing to see his patients or someone attending a funeral is more important than a McDonald's employee getting back for a 4 hour shift or an unemployed person getting back a day late. They're not more important in the eyes of God or whatever you want to call it but that's not what anyone's saying when they say a Dr. is more important when it comes to getting somewhere on time.

Saying we're all equal when it comes to getting from point A to point B is the same as saying we should all be compensated the same for doing different jobs with different amounts of effort and ability.

I.E. - it doesn't matter what our job is or why we're heading to our destination. We're all the same. Our time is worth the same exact amount of $ or inconvenience regardless of what our job is. If we're heading to serve fries to customers it's just as important as if we're heading to give a consultation to someone on their cancer treatment.

 

[Ratt Mhule]

i think every global corporation has the right to sh#t on any customer of theirs that they wish to at any time.

Unfortunately they do. Luckily, consumers also have the right to not patronize those businesses.

Anyone who says a doctor is not more important than say, a fast food employee is freakin nuts. Thats just the way society is. People get paid more because their job is more important.

So, I'm more important than you? I might like it in your twisted world.

Your job may be. Im not saying him as a person is more important. Im saying his job is more importantIts called socio-economic status. I didnt invent it, but it damn sure exists

Okay, so his socioeconomic status determines that, as a paying customer on an airline, his time is to be valued more than anyone else's?I think what you want is a world where people are ranked based on their job. Heck, let's take it the rest of the way and require everyone to get a dna test and we'll rank people's importance based on their potential as a human being. I smell a wonderful sci-fi thriller in the works.

This argument that some people are more important than others...stupidest sh#t I've heard in a long, long time. And I've frequented HB for a long, long time.

BTW, I do agree his job may be more important than many others. Still doesn't mean jackshit on a commercial flight. Anybody that is too important to be subjected to equal treatment as all other passengers better be making different travel arrangements or better yet staying right the hell where they are so gd important.

Equal treatment would be everyone on that plane getting kicked off. Everyone on that plane was there for a reason. And their time mattered. Im not saying the doctor was more important than everyone else on that plane. His JOB is extremely important. Not only for him to support himself and family, but for other folks and their families also. He should have never been kicked off. The three others never should have been kicked off. If there are no volunteers then United needs to find other options for their employees. And especially if a paying customer says I cant get off, I need to get where Im going now, that should be end of it and United needs to figure out the rest. He paid for a ticket at that time on that day because he was in a time crunch as was everyone on that plane.If I pay for a plane ticket. Or a hotel. Or a meal. I expect things to get done the way I paid for them. And a good business would make sure the customer is satisfied. United did not in this case. The man did nothing wrong.

So, considering that United did not choose to do the right thing (because they didn't), what should've happened?1- The person who was unlucky enough to be chosen for removal should've got of the plane under his own power.

2- Somebody less important should've been forced to take the bullet for him.

3- Since he refused to get off, they should've cancelled the flight inconveniencing all customers (you know, to be fair).

4- He should've fought the removal and been injured in the process.

These are your only choices considering United didn't do the right thing. So what's the correct answer?

I dont know. I honestly dont. If I had something important to get to I probably would have fought it also. If I had a day to spare I would have definetely taken the money. All depends on the individual situation.
For example, my girlfriend and I went to Detroit last week for a wedding. My idea was to leave Friday with wedding on Saturday but my girlfriend had to work Friday night at her synagogue, so we had no choice but to leave Saturday. If Delta kicked us off and told us we wouldnt be able to go til Sunday because their employees needed my seat, I would gave fought it because we needed to get there that day. On the way back, I didnt have to work the next couple days so I would have volunteered to give up my seat.

 

[Mierin]

Am I the only one that didn't miss the part where ED said he doesn't condone the way they handled it? Lol

No. Lol

 

[Redux]

I would have probably made a scene, but I would have gotten off the plane and taken my check. It's an ugly situation for everyone involved, let's not act like the guy was targeted and beaten while reading to the blind. Sucks he was assualted, it could have been avoided....in many ways.

 

[Redux]

Am I the only one that didn't miss the part where ED said he doesn't condone the way they handled it? Lol

No. Lol

How I imagine Moiraine laughing