Success of Pro-Style O Likely Depends on the Trenches

[zoogs]

Defending 11-on-11 always seemed overvalued to me. Defenses can deal with it, evidently. And, sure, it might be hard, but so is what you give up in the passing game. A good QB executing a good scheme will have so many plays open up to him where it doesn't matter if the defense has one less guy in coverage. They won't have a chance -- so long as you can identify the options and make the throw.

When you can't do that, what you give up relative to those offenses who can is pretty darn significant.

 

[NUinID]

Sam has been writing negative pieces about the O-line forever. He doesn't like Nebraska's O-line. He wants a road grader line that is 6'4" 325 across the board. He wants Wisconsin's line.

What Sam wan'ts and what MR want are 2 different things in offensive lines. I think Riley and Cav want an athletic nimble line that is quick on their feet. Those ltypes of lines are going to be a little smaller. They want a line that can really get out on a screen play or pull on a sweep or a counter trey. Wisconsin doesn't do that kind of stuff as much. They run short counters and only a few screens a game.

Think of the vintage 49er lines or the lines blocking for Elway on their Super Bowl championship teams. Heck think of New Englands lines right now. Sam thinks the lines should look like what Dallas or Oakland has up front.

I just think they need to give them a chance and see what they can do. I think they will be fine.

 

[zoogs]

^ That mismatch in styles may also explain some of the difficulties in this transition. We didn't have stellar depth before the change and then we had to move in a different direction, while trying to straddle the two styles with TA as QB for two seasons. You talk about 'identity'; I think the Riley and Langs imprint on this offense will eventually come into its own. It doesn't have to be rigid but it will get more cohesive.

I've heard the theory that one or the other style is "easier" to get in the Midwest. I don't think that's necessarily true. Effective OL play isn't that easy to get, period, and neither are talented OL. You need both whatever style of play you pursue. We had several years trying it one way. It was fun, it was entertaining, but I like this "New England's OL right now" sort of style, personally.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Tommy's legs and happy feet hurt the O line sometimes too.

I agree completely. Trying to block for Tommy was much more difficult than trying to block for a pocket passer who's movements will be much more predictable.

Except when the pocket breaks down...

Let's not forget that many times, Tommy was running for his life when the pocket broke down......because he totally forgot where his dump rout was and lacked the ability to deliver the ball there when he actually did.

Except I didn't forget. Tommy isn't our quarterback this year which is what my comment about the pocket breaking down was about. What happens 'this' year.

Most of the time criticism about the O line is based off of what we saw last year.....so.....people are concerned about it this year. My comment was pointing out that part of why the looked bad last year was because of who was at QB. THIS year, we have a very very different QB back there. One that can hit screen passes and quick crossing routes and knows how to step up into the pocket instead of instantly starting to run for his life.

Those factors alone will help the O line.

That's why my comment pertained to this year.

 

[alwayshusking]

While I guess we can label our offense a pro style offense, we have plenty of spread concepts in there as well now.

I'm concerned about our OT spots right now, but I'd be concerned about them regardless of offense.

 

[NUinID]

^ That mismatch in styles may also explain some of the difficulties in this transition. We didn't have stellar depth before the change and then we had to move in a different direction, while trying to straddle the two styles with TA as QB for two seasons. You talk about 'identity'; I think the Riley and Langs imprint on this offense will eventually come into its own. It doesn't have to be rigid but it will get more cohesive.

I've heard the theory that one or the other style is "easier" to get in the Midwest. I don't think that's necessarily true. Effective OL play isn't that easy to get, period, and neither are talented OL. You need both whatever style of play you pursue. We had several years trying it one way. It was fun, it was entertaining, but I like this "New England's OL right now" sort of style, personally.

O-lines take time. Wisconsin has been running the same style of line since Alverez got to Madison 25 years ago. Iowa has been running the same system since 1999. Nebraska ran the same basic system from 1962 till 2002. Since then it has changed line systems basically 4x.

All the injuries really hurt the O-line development last year. One game last year, I think it was Indiana, they started 3 former walk ons on the O-line because of injury. The line will be fine if they stay healthy. The line may actually benifit from a QB that actually will step up into a pocket. I am not saying they are going to be this dominant line, but I think they will be very serviceable if not a good line.

 

[MichiganDad3]

^ That mismatch in styles may also explain some of the difficulties in this transition. We didn't have stellar depth before the change and then we had to move in a different direction, while trying to straddle the two styles with TA as QB for two seasons. You talk about 'identity'; I think the Riley and Langs imprint on this offense will eventually come into its own. It doesn't have to be rigid but it will get more cohesive.

I've heard the theory that one or the other style is "easier" to get in the Midwest. I don't think that's necessarily true. Effective OL play isn't that easy to get, period, and neither are talented OL. You need both whatever style of play you pursue. We had several years trying it one way. It was fun, it was entertaining, but I like this "New England's OL right now" sort of style, personally.

O-lines take time. Wisconsin has been running the same style of line since Alverez got to Madison 25 years ago. Iowa has been running the same system since 1999. Nebraska ran the same basic system from 1962 till 2002. Since then it has changed line systems basically 4x.

All the injuries really hurt the O-line development last year. One game last year, I think it was Indiana, they started 3 former walk ons on the O-line because of injury. The line will be fine if they stay healthy. The line may actually benifit from a QB that actually will step up into a pocket. I am not saying they are going to be this dominant line, but I think they will be very serviceable if not a good line.

TO ran a different system with Humm and Ferragamo. Lee has had injury problems. If we can't protect him he may not make it through the year. I think a lot of the protecting Lee depends on how well we can run. If defenses have no respect for our run game, I don't think Lee won't make it through the season.

 

[JJ Husker]

I keep on seeing posts about how the o-line will be just fine and how it relates to the passing game. I don't think that will be the biggest issue for the offense and the o-line. The biggest issue will be in the run game. If NU can't run the ball to stay on schedule, keep the defenses honest, and grind games out in the 4th quarter, it won't matter how great Lee is.

I agree with this but it works both ways. I feel the run game will improve, at least marginally, because defenses will have to respect the pass. That hasn't been the situation with TA and TM back there the last few years. But yeah, it remains to be seen if better passing will offset the loss of QB mobility. And it's all moot if our OL doesnt do at least a reasonable job. I'll be optimistic until they prove otherwise. Hoping I don't sour on them before conference play begins....

I understand that the defenses will have to respect the pass more, but defenses always had to keep one defender to account for the QB run game. That's the numbers game that I keep referring to. That free guy now has the ability to stay back in coverage or come up and be a free defender in the run game.

I see what you're saying and don't disagree with it but, as zoogs said, I still think we gain more by having a viable passing attack and a QB who can make the reads and the throws. I think we gain a lot more than what one defender amounts to by being multi faceted. Hopefully it keeps teams from putting 8+ in the box like we have faced so much of. That for sure will shut down your running game and when you can't pass, well, you're left with basically nothing. And when your offense and play calling tendency is predicated on throwing the ball I think it is even more valuable. I think a lot of it will depend on how good Lee really is. I might be expecting more from him than we'll get. I mean being a better passer than Tommy isn't really a high bar so it will depend on exactly how much better,

I guess we'll find out here in about a month how much difference it will make.

 

[JJ Husker]

^ That mismatch in styles may also explain some of the difficulties in this transition. We didn't have stellar depth before the change and then we had to move in a different direction, while trying to straddle the two styles with TA as QB for two seasons. You talk about 'identity'; I think the Riley and Langs imprint on this offense will eventually come into its own. It doesn't have to be rigid but it will get more cohesive.

I've heard the theory that one or the other style is "easier" to get in the Midwest. I don't think that's necessarily true. Effective OL play isn't that easy to get, period, and neither are talented OL. You need both whatever style of play you pursue. We had several years trying it one way. It was fun, it was entertaining, but I like this "New England's OL right now" sort of style, personally.

O-lines take time. Wisconsin has been running the same style of line since Alverez got to Madison 25 years ago. Iowa has been running the same system since 1999. Nebraska ran the same basic system from 1962 till 2002. Since then it has changed line systems basically 4x.

All the injuries really hurt the O-line development last year. One game last year, I think it was Indiana, they started 3 former walk ons on the O-line because of injury. The line will be fine if they stay healthy. The line may actually benifit from a QB that actually will step up into a pocket. I am not saying they are going to be this dominant line, but I think they will be very serviceable if not a good line.

TO ran a different system with Humm and Ferragamo. Lee has had injury problems. If we can't protect him he may not make it through the year. I think a lot of the protecting Lee depends on how well we can run. If defenses have no respect for our run game, I don't think Lee won't make it through the season.

He took quite a bit of abuse at Tulane and was pretty durable. Not that lack of protection is a non-factor but just sayin....

 

[NUinID]

^ That mismatch in styles may also explain some of the difficulties in this transition. We didn't have stellar depth before the change and then we had to move in a different direction, while trying to straddle the two styles with TA as QB for two seasons. You talk about 'identity'; I think the Riley and Langs imprint on this offense will eventually come into its own. It doesn't have to be rigid but it will get more cohesive.

I've heard the theory that one or the other style is "easier" to get in the Midwest. I don't think that's necessarily true. Effective OL play isn't that easy to get, period, and neither are talented OL. You need both whatever style of play you pursue. We had several years trying it one way. It was fun, it was entertaining, but I like this "New England's OL right now" sort of style, personally.

O-lines take time. Wisconsin has been running the same style of line since Alverez got to Madison 25 years ago. Iowa has been running the same system since 1999. Nebraska ran the same basic system from 1962 till 2002. Since then it has changed line systems basically 4x.

All the injuries really hurt the O-line development last year. One game last year, I think it was Indiana, they started 3 former walk ons on the O-line because of injury. The line will be fine if they stay healthy. The line may actually benifit from a QB that actually will step up into a pocket. I am not saying they are going to be this dominant line, but I think they will be very serviceable if not a good line.

TO ran a different system with Humm and Ferragamo. Lee has had injury problems. If we can't protect him he may not make it through the year. I think a lot of the protecting Lee depends on how well we can run. If defenses have no respect for our run game, I don't think Lee won't make it through the season.

I am talking about the way the line was coached, not about whether they were running more drop back/pro passing vs. option.

 

[MichiganDad3]

In two years at Tulane, Lee had a shoulder injury, a couple finger problems, and concussion issues. The concussions worry me the most.

http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/sports/tulane/article_7686e3fa-b583-553e-81f0-9d9bf24ea506.html

http://www.nola.com/tulane/index.ssf/2015/10/tanner_lee_out_with_concussion.html

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/mckewon-injuries-at-tulane-complicate-comparisons-between-huskers-tanner-lee/article_38b10ad7-1038-5f6b-bbbf-22c9b188df3d.html

 

[suh_fan93]

Tommy's legs and happy feet hurt the O line sometimes too.

I agree completely. Trying to block for Tommy was much more difficult than trying to block for a pocket passer who's movements will be much more predictable.

Except when the pocket breaks down...

Let's not forget that many times, Tommy was running for his life when the pocket broke down......because he totally forgot where his dump rout was and lacked the ability to deliver the ball there when he actually did.

Except I didn't forget. Tommy isn't our quarterback this year which is what my comment about the pocket breaking down was about. What happens 'this' year.

Most of the time criticism about the O line is based off of what we saw last year.....so.....people are concerned about it this year. My comment was pointing out that part of why the looked bad last year was because of who was at QB. THIS year, we have a very very different QB back there. One that can hit screen passes and quick crossing routes and knows how to step up into the pocket instead of instantly starting to run for his life.

Those factors alone will help the O line.

That's why my comment pertained to this year.

I don't think Tommy hurt the o line as much as people would like to believe and I also think he didn't bail out of the pocket as much as some have mentioned in this thread. He was no sitting duck back there. In fact if it weren't for his legs the Nebraska offense would have fared worse in terms of when things broke down.

Tommy and last year shouldn't derail this thread however. Again we will have less mobile quarterbacks back there this season for the first time in a long time. With an o line that had some ups and downs last year too. It will be very interesting to see how things pan out.

 

[JJ Husker]

In two years at Tulane, Lee had a shoulder injury, a couple finger problems, and concussion issues. The concussions worry me the most.

http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/sports/tulane/article_7686e3fa-b583-553e-81f0-9d9bf24ea506.html

http://www.nola.com/tulane/index.ssf/2015/10/tanner_lee_out_with_concussion.html

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/mckewon-injuries-at-tulane-complicate-comparisons-between-huskers-tanner-lee/article_38b10ad7-1038-5f6b-bbbf-22c9b188df3d.html

Yeah but did you see how many times he got hit.

He's lucky to be alive.

 

[SuperBigFan69]

Tommy's legs and happy feet hurt the O line sometimes too.

I agree completely. Trying to block for Tommy was much more difficult than trying to block for a pocket passer who's movements will be much more predictable.

Except when the pocket breaks down...

Let's not forget that many times, Tommy was running for his life when the pocket broke down......because he totally forgot where his dump rout was and lacked the ability to deliver the ball there when he actually did.

Except I didn't forget. Tommy isn't our quarterback this year which is what my comment about the pocket breaking down was about. What happens 'this' year.

Most of the time criticism about the O line is based off of what we saw last year.....so.....people are concerned about it this year. My comment was pointing out that part of why the looked bad last year was because of who was at QB. THIS year, we have a very very different QB back there. One that can hit screen passes and quick crossing routes and knows how to step up into the pocket instead of instantly starting to run for his life.

Those factors alone will help the O line.

That's why my comment pertained to this year.

I don't think Tommy hurt the o line as much as people would like to believe and I also think he didn't bail out of the pocket as much as some have mentioned in this thread. He was no sitting duck back there. In fact if it weren't for his legs the Nebraska offense would have fared worse in terms of when things broke down.

Tommy and last year shouldn't derail this thread however. Again we will have less mobile quarterbacks back there this season for the first time in a long time. With an o line that had some ups and downs last year too. It will be very interesting to see how things pan out.

Amen!

 

[BigRedBuster]

Tommy's legs and happy feet hurt the O line sometimes too.

I agree completely. Trying to block for Tommy was much more difficult than trying to block for a pocket passer who's movements will be much more predictable.

Except when the pocket breaks down...

Let's not forget that many times, Tommy was running for his life when the pocket broke down......because he totally forgot where his dump rout was and lacked the ability to deliver the ball there when he actually did.

Except I didn't forget. Tommy isn't our quarterback this year which is what my comment about the pocket breaking down was about. What happens 'this' year.

Most of the time criticism about the O line is based off of what we saw last year.....so.....people are concerned about it this year. My comment was pointing out that part of why the looked bad last year was because of who was at QB. THIS year, we have a very very different QB back there. One that can hit screen passes and quick crossing routes and knows how to step up into the pocket instead of instantly starting to run for his life.

Those factors alone will help the O line.

That's why my comment pertained to this year.

I don't think Tommy hurt the o line as much as people would like to believe and I also think he didn't bail out of the pocket as much as some have mentioned in this thread. He was no sitting duck back there. In fact if it weren't for his legs the Nebraska offense would have fared worse in terms of when things broke down.

Tommy and last year shouldn't derail this thread however. Again we will have less mobile quarterbacks back there this season for the first time in a long time. With an o line that had some ups and downs last year too. It will be very interesting to see how things pan out.

Don't get me wrong....I was a TA fan and loved some of the things he was able to do.

However, his inability to hit a short pass in the flats or even recognize its' the correct place to throw the ball totally gave the front 7 of any defense a green light to blitz. THAT is a recipe for an O line not looking good. Then....once things started breaking down, his legs helped us many times. But, at the same time, he gave up on plays way too early lots of times and started scrambling....which....makes it harder to hold blocks that might have pushed D linemen up field behind the QB.