Wisconsin "May have separated from the rest of the West"

[Landlord]

The east has Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Penn State. MSU was down last year but has been elite for the last while.

The west has Wisconsin. I don't care if the rest of the bad teams that don't matter help the west look better in overall W-L record against the East, our division is not good.

 

[BigRedBuster]

The east has Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Penn State. MSU was down last year but has been elite for the last while.

The west has Wisconsin. I don't care if the rest of the bad teams that don't matter help the west look better in overall W-L record against the East, our division is not good.

MSU has been good for the last 5-7 years...up until last year.  I'm assuming they will come back strong, but it's possible they won't.  PSU had really one good year.  Yes, they are recruiting pretty well right now.  But, I'll have a wait and see attitude on them to see if their success is sustained.  Michigan has had one hell of a lot of people going all goo goo gaa gaa over them since they hired Mr. all world loony toon coach.  But....still, they haven't won anything of significance since he has been there.

OSU is legit.  

Are they sitting better than the west?  Sure.....but, I don't think the difference is as big as people make it out to be.

Do you know what Nebraska's combined record against MSU, OSU, UM and PSU is since joining the B1G?

 

[Landlord]

Do you know what Nebraska's combined record against MSU, OSU, UM and PSU is since joining the B1G?

Yep, it's 9-5. It's also a very deceptive stat because most of those  9 wins were against their worst squads in decades.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Sure....but, we also beat some of these teams when they were pretty highly ranked.  Se beat MSU during seasons where they went 12-2 and 11-3.  We beat PSU in seasons where they only ended up with 4 losses.

Three of these teams we have won our last meetings.  MSU -1 wins, PSU - 3 wins, UM - 2 wins.

Again...Is the east better?  Sure.....but...taking out OSU, it's not like they are so amazingly better than us that we we should just bow down to them and kiss the ground they walk on.

 

[Redux]

Yep, it's 9-5. It's also a very deceptive stat because most of those  9 wins were against their worst squads in decades.

Wrong

2011 Ohio state (yes, they were awful)

2011 #9 Michigan State

2011 @ #12 Penn State (yes, they just got rocked by scandal)

2012 #12 Michigan

2012 @ Michigan State

2012 Penn State (riddled with sanctions)

2013 @ Michigan (first loss in Big House in quite some time)

2013 @ Penn State

(2014 was not impressive...)

2015 #6 Michigan State

(2016, also unimpressive in retrospect)

So of the 9: 4 were against ranked opponents, 4 were on the road, 1 was during a losing season against #6, 1 was 1st Michigan loss in Michigan under Hoke, and their cumulative record over this timeframe is 224-80.

 

[Mavric]

Wrong

2011 Ohio state (yes, they were awful) 6-7

2011 #9 Michigan State 11-3

2011 @ #12 Penn State (yes, they just got rocked by scandal) 9-4

2012 #12 Michigan 8-5

2012 @ Michigan State 7-6

2012 Penn State (riddled with sanctions) 8-4

2013 @ Michigan (first loss in Big House in quite some time) 7-6

2013 @ Penn State 7-5

(2014 was not impressive...)

2015 #6 Michigan State 12-2

(2016, also unimpressive in retrospect)

So of the 9: 4 were against ranked opponents, 4 were on the road, 1 was during a losing season against #6, 1 was 1st Michigan loss in Michigan under Hoke, and their cumulative record over this timeframe is 224-80.

We've had a couple nice wins - Michigan State in 2011 & 2015 mostly.

The other teams we beat may have been ranked highly when we beat them but didn't really turn out that way.  The best record of the remaining teams was 9-4 so not exactly the cream of the crop, especially for those programs.

 

[junior4949]

Sure....but, we also beat some of these teams when they were pretty highly ranked.  Se beat MSU during seasons where they went 12-2 and 11-3.  We beat PSU in seasons where they only ended up with 4 losses.

Three of these teams we have won our last meetings.  MSU -1 wins, PSU - 3 wins, UM - 2 wins.

Again...Is the east better?  Sure.....but...taking out OSU, it's not like they are so amazingly better than us that we we should just bow down to them and kiss the ground they walk on.

The east isn't so amazingly better than us yet, but it appears that Ohio State; Michigan; and Penn State are widening the gap.  Those three schools there are paying coaches salaries that I believe is top 15 in the country.  Those three schools are out recruiting the rest of the league by a decent margin.  Michigan maybe hasn't won much yet, but all Harbaugh does is win.  He's had a pretty good history of coaching winning teams.  When Ohio State hired Meyer, they raised the bar for the B1G.  Some schools responded while most of the rest have not.  We are recruiting better, but even we need to make some pretty decent improvement if we want to hang with the east's big 3. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

The east isn't so amazingly better than us yet, but it appears that Ohio State; Michigan; and Penn State are widening the gap.  Those three schools there are paying coaches salaries that I believe is top 15 in the country.  Those three schools are out recruiting the rest of the league by a decent margin.  Michigan maybe hasn't won much yet, but all Harbaugh does is win.  He's had a pretty good history of coaching winning teams.  When Ohio State hired Meyer, they raised the bar for the B1G.  Some schools responded while most of the rest have not.  We are recruiting better, but even we need to make some pretty decent improvement if we want to hang with the east's big 3. 

The bolded part was my point.  The last word ..."yet" ....has yet to be seen.  

My post was in response to posts that were claiming the west just plain sucks compared to the east.  I said the east was better.....I just don't think (at this time) it's accurate to say they are "amazing" and we "suck".

Afterall....if you haven't heard...a team from the west has hired P.J. Fleck.  He's the next coming of God himself.

 

[Redux]

We've had a couple nice wins - Michigan State in 2011 & 2015 mostly.

The other teams we beat may have been ranked highly when we beat them but didn't really turn out that way.  The best record of the remaining teams was 9-4 so not exactly the cream of the crop, especially for those programs.

Not the cream of the crop, but not the bottom of the barrel either.  I would say most have been better than we have in many ways over the same time period.

 

[Mavric]

Not the cream of the crop, but not the bottom of the barrel either.  I would say most have been better than we have in many ways over the same time period.

But that's not what LoMS stated - which is what you argued with.

He wasn't comparing them to us.  He was comparing the teams that we beat to the relative success of those programs over the long haul.

 

[Redux]

But that's not what LoMS stated - which is what you argued with.

He wasn't comparing them to us.  He was comparing the teams that we beat to the relative success of those programs over the long haul.

Well, he said:

Yep, it's 9-5. It's also a very deceptive stat because most of those  9 wins were against their worst squads in decades.

And I disagree with that and explained why I disagreed with it.  Me responding to your comment wasn't me responding to his comment.  What is football other than actually comparing two teams on the field in an actual game.  Of those 9, at least half were impressive in my opinion.  If you and LOMS disagree that's fine. 

 

[Mavric]

Well, he said:

And I disagree with that and explained why I disagreed with it.  Me responding to your comment wasn't me responding to his comment.

You told him he was wrong but then provided no argument why he was wrong.  All you did was list the teams we beat. 

I pointed out that those teams generally had worse records the year we beat them than they have generally had over their history.

 

[Redux]

You told him he was wrong but then provided no argument why he was wrong.  All you did was list the teams we beat. 

I pointed out that those teams generally had worse records the year we beat them than they have generally had over their history.

I listed the teams and their rankings and a note or two, stop trying to make me look like a d!(k please.  You were nice enough to add in their records.

1 team was below .500

By LOMS standard of worst squads in decades, that kinda goes against that wouldn't you think.

 

[Landlord]

I listed the teams and their rankings and a note or two, stop trying to make me look like a d!(k please.  You were nice enough to add in their records.

1 team was below .500

By LOMS standard of worst squads in decades, that kinda goes against that wouldn't you think.

You....don't seem like you understand the argument that was made.

The general idea is that the versions of Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State (we've had good wins against great Michigan State teams) that we beat a half decade ago are not indicative of how good those programs usually are historically, and were not as good as the versions that exist right now.

 

[Redux]

You....don't seem like you understand the argument that was made.

The general idea is that the versions of Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State (we've had good wins against great Michigan State teams) that we beat a half decade ago are not indicative of how good those programs usually are historically, and were not as good as the versions that exist right now.

Yes, I understand it just fine thanks.  You said they were their worst squads in decades, to which I disagree (except for the Ohio State win).  I feel you exaggerated their ineptitude to downplay the "accomplishment" of the 9-5 mark.  Obviously only the MSU wins are worth bragging about, but the others were nothing to sneeze at like I feel you implied.