Extremely impressed with the new staff on the recruiting trail

[LaunchCode]

Riley was in on all DB and WR's. That is not solely the right type of guys. 

Last years class 8 line and 3 LB commits, compared to 3 receivers and 1 DB.  The receivers and DB were all four start, maybe that's what you're getting at and not numbers of players?

The 16' class featured 4 star O linemen; Farniok and Raridon, 3 star OL Brokop and Wilson.

I don't see the evidence the O or D line was ignored.  I think we have a lot of young talent on both lines and need to keep adding to it with each class. 

 

[irafreak]

"The new Nebraska coaching staff came by to see me," said Parsons. "Once I had heard the old coaches had been let go, I was no longer interested in Nebraska. They're still one of my top schools but it's too late to be able to build relationships with a new staff. There just isn't enough time.

https://n.rivals.com/news/two-final-official-visits-for-5-star-micah-parsons-before-dec-20-decision

It's understandable. These kids have big decisions to make and the kid sounds pretty mature in his line of thinking. 

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Recent data (past 13 years) shows that in order to WIN a national championship, you must have at least 2 Top 12 classes in the years prior to winning, including at least one Top 5 class. Like it or not, stars DO matter.

 

[Making Chimichangas]

You think Nebraska used to be Wisconsin? You need to go watch some old Nebraska film, because those teams had athletes at the skill positions that Wisconsin would kill for. Wisconsin may have been a QB away from a B1G title, but they're a lot further than that away from a national title.... Which is what Frost said he came here to win. You guys who think recruiting elite talent doesn't matter are delusional. All you have to do is look at the recruiting rankings every year, open up another tab, and look who is making the Playoff, and winning national titles every year.... Nothing wrong with some 3-star guys on the team that bust their a$$, but you better supplement some big time talent in there if you want to get "all the way back".

Edit: And none of what I'm saying is an indictment on Frost, and what he's done thus far. I think he has a plan, and I trust it's going to work.

I'm not saying recruiting isn't important.

I'm not saying Nebraska shouldn't be going after the best talent they can.

What I am saying is that: a) recruiting rankings are just a guess, b) where a player is "ranked" is largely dependent on what part of the country he lives in and who is recruiting him, and c) the system is corrupted by players who can buy higher star ratings.

As to the part in bold...here's how that works: (This is exactly what happened at Wisconsin) A team has a recruiting class ranked 60th.  This team plays opponents tough.  As the seasons go by, and they start consistently winning 10, 11, and (this year) 12 games in a season, their team class rankings rise dramatically from the 60's into 15th nationally range.  Why, what a coincidence that Wisconsin's "class ranking" has risen to match their on the field performance, despite recruiting the exact same types of players.

Or...

Recruiting services see Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, etc is interested in a kid.  Because of those schools immense on the field successes, those kids are by default going to be some of the highest rated players nationally because recruiting sites know that those coaching staffs are pretty darn good evaluators of talent.  Also, where a player is "ranked" by position and nationally: 1st, 2nd, 3rd,...12th,...35th, etc is largely dependent on who is offering them.  And, since recruiting targets are often known 2-3 years in advance of them signing with a particular team, recruiting sites have lots of time to adjust their player rankings, to slide them up or down, to fit their greedy, pay us for our opinion, self-serving narrative.

In summary, recruiting rankings are literally nothing more than someone's opinion and yet there are extremely intelligent folks who take these opinions as holy writ.

You watch, if Coach Frost and Nebraska has the kind of on-field success I think they will, you'll see a "shocking" rise in Nebraska's recruiting class rankings--despite Nebraska recruiting the same types of players to fit Frost's system.  Because as Nebraska has on field success, kids that we're interested in will start to be rated higher.  Say Nebraska is going after a 3* who is  rated 5.6 or 81.  With future on field success, that 3* 5.6 or 81rated kid suddenly "jumps" to a 5.8 or 91 rating.  We're talking decimals here, but those decimals mean the difference between a 50th rated class and 15th rated class, especially if we're factoring it out over a class of 22-25 prospects.

 

[krc1995]

Recent data (past 13 years) shows that in order to WIN a national championship, you must have at least 2 Top 12 classes in the years prior to winning, including at least one Top 5 class. Like it or not, stars DO matter.

WHo cares?  Let's just do it and let them write books about us after it's done.  You can twist a number and make it holler in any direction you want.  

 

[LaunchCode]

I think we are on the same page, I just don't put as much stock in ranking numbers as you. It depends on how you use talent, and the schools in the playoff have very good coaching as well. 

If it were solely based on numbers where are Tennessee, Michigan, Texas, Florida, etc in the playoff?

It's not SOLELY based on talent numbers.  Whoever said that.

Just like you can NOT make oatmeal cookies with oatmeal alone, you need other ingredients as well, but you absolutely do need oatmeal to make oatmeal cookies.  In other words you can't win a title with talent alone, however there's not much proof you can win one without top rated talent as one of your ingredients either.

It's become harder than ever before in college football to pull off a cinderella season.  More total games in regular season, 12 instead of 11 like before.  9 conference games in the BIG, then if you do win a division you have to play a 13th game against a great team and if you get past that then have to wait for a jury to decide your fate.  Then if that works out you'd have to beat two more great teams.  That really weeds out the over achieving cinderella teams.    

 

[LaunchCode]

I'm not saying recruiting isn't important.

I'm not saying Nebraska shouldn't be going after the best talent they can.

What I am saying is that: a) recruiting rankings are just a guess, b) where a player is "ranked" is largely dependent on what part of the country he lives in and who is recruiting him, and c) the system is corrupted by players who can buy higher star ratings.

As to the part in bold...here's how that works: (This is exactly what happened at Wisconsin) A team has a recruiting class ranked 60th.  This team plays opponents tough.  As the seasons go by, and they start consistently winning 10, 11, and (this year) 12 games in a season, their team class rankings rise dramatically from the 60's into 15th nationally range.  Why, what a coincidence that Wisconsin's "class ranking" has risen to match their on the field performance, despite recruiting the exact same types of players.

Or...

Recruiting services see Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, etc is interested in a kid.  Because of those schools immense on the field successes, those kids are by default going to be some of the highest rated players nationally because recruiting sites know that those coaching staffs are pretty darn good evaluators of talent.  Also, where a player is "ranked" by position and nationally: 1st, 2nd, 3rd,...12th,...35th, etc is largely dependent on who is offering them.  And, since recruiting targets are often known 2-3 years in advance of them signing with a particular team, recruiting sites have lots of time to adjust their player rankings, to slide them up or down, to fit their greedy, pay us for our opinion, self-serving narrative.

In summary, recruiting rankings are literally nothing more than someone's opinion and yet there are extremely intelligent folks who take these opinions as holy writ.

You watch, if Coach Frost and Nebraska has the kind of on-field success I think they will, you'll see a "shocking" rise in Nebraska's recruiting class rankings--despite Nebraska recruiting the same types of players to fit Frost's system.  Because as Nebraska has on field success, kids that we're interested in will start to be rated higher.  Say Nebraska is going after a 3* who is  rated 5.6 or 81.  With future on field success, that 3* 5.6 or 81rated kid suddenly "jumps" to a 5.8 or 91 rating.  We're talking decimals here, but those decimals mean the difference between a 50th rated class and 15th rated class, especially if we're factoring it out over a class of 22-25 prospects.

You make some good points, especially about the region an athlete being from impacting their recruiting rank.  I would add the position they play has an impact too and if they're also from an outlying location it's a double hit.  Ranking a 3 star vs 4 star Olinemen is much more difficult than a RB, WR, or LB especially if they're from a rural area and don't attend any camps.

For those two reasons I don't buy Wisconsin's class ranking as being very accurate.  They pull a lot of in state O and D-linemen who are undervalued by the services because they aren't being evaluated the same as athletes in other areas are.  JJ Watt was a 2 star for example.  Wisconsin does consistently go out and get top rated skill players from TX, FL, GA, etc.. to  at DB, WR, LB, and especially RB to compliment their instate hogs.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

considering that our national title teams where rated no higher than 15th (i think can't remember exactly) in recruiting rankings and had as many as 5 walk ons' playing for one of those teams you might want to reconsider who is  being delusional and needs to watch the tape, don't forget we were also one of the few teams weight lifting at that time.

Wisconsin is our cheap Chinese knock off cousin, a program built on the back of blue collar kids with the skill positions and some other spots mostly being out of state and region kids for speed/athletic skill not available in region. 

I want better than what wiskey are doing as well and i agree we are going to need to get some of the better/elite talent to get back to where we want to be. 

But lets not kid our selves either. Thats not who we are. 5 stars weren't lining up to come here in the mid 90's at the height of our dynasty and they sure as hell aren't today, or tomorrow for that fact.

We are a player development program. We take kids with talent, but who need to hit the weights and gain some pounds and be coached up. And after 4-5 years they left all Americans and champions.

We turned our back on what made us great (thanks perlman) and here we are, with plenty of 4 stars and not a trophy to our name of any significance.

I don't know that scott will get us back to that but his press conference game me the impression we will and the recruits we are aiming at give me that vibe. So that's just my two cents.

Watch the tape and tell me where you see any resemblance of Wisconsin, besides big white guys on the offensive line.

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

WHo cares?  Let's just do it and let them write books about us after it's done.  You can twist a number and make it holler in any direction you want.  

Not arguing, just saying that you can't expect to win championships with a roster consisting primarily of 3-star guys. You gotta have mostly 4-stars, with some 5-stars and 3-stars mixed in. 

 

[krc1995]

Not arguing, just saying that you can't expect to win championships with a roster consisting primarily of 3-star guys. You gotta have mostly 4-stars, with some 5-stars and 3-stars mixed in. 

I think we can and should expect championships every single year. Stars dont play football. 

 

[Truth in Ruin]

Half of the 5 stars are just early bloomers. Full grown beards, basically fully grown adults playing against high school kids that aren’t developed yet.  Then they go to college and flop because the late bloomers catch-up with them, and they lose their maturity advantage.

it’s them 3 stars you have to look-out for.  

 

[RedDenver]

The recruiting rankings do matter. I love how when Riley was here there was moaning we didn't recruit well enough to compete for titles. Now that Frost is here none of that matters? B.S. Frost may be able to develop players at a higher level, but don't kid yourself. The only way we will be winning this conference multiple times in a decade is if we are consistently pulling top 15-18 recruiting classes. 

Wisconsin has already proved the bolded part false.

Recent data (past 13 years) shows that in order to WIN a national championship, you must have at least 2 Top 12 classes in the years prior to winning, including at least one Top 5 class. Like it or not, stars DO matter.

Not this argument again. People need to realize this is an unreliable metric due to small sample size and causation vs correlation.

 

[southernoregonhusker]

Everybody in the lynch mob wanted Riley strung up and got their way.  They insisted on Frost.   Now I read how great his recruiting is already but I am just asking where is the meat?    What's new?    I am not criticzing Frost.  I am asking direct questions of all the Frost backers to show me the 'new and improved' is all!

I admit I have not bothered to look at the current state of the recruiting class as I figured it was too soon to make any kind of fair assessment   But everybody was raving about how great things are going and I am wondering what all the excitement is actually about.   i also admit that I have been uncomfortable with the Frost fanfare and while I want more than anybody for Scott and Company to succeed and Make Nebraska Great Again, I also recall feeling that same way with Solich, Callahan, Pelini and Riley (not so much in fairness in the beginning).

Spiehlman (don't know the star rating but he was Minnesota high school player of the year) so he was and is a qulity, elite caliber player.   We need to recruit the best players from all the area (great plains, midwest, etc) states.   We used to pick those up quite often.    

Coaches have relationships with recruits and it usually starts their junior year.  To ask Frost to get us studs now is not realistic.  Frost has to create relationships with the underclassmen within the 500 mile radius as well as high school coaches in that region.  It doesn't hurt that he has some experience in Florida, but he recruited kids in Florida for UCF.  Probably not the same kids he wants to have at DONU.  Let's practice patience.  

 

[HuskerNation1]

Huskerw just lost one of their highest rated commits in the 2018 class as Josh Moore just decommitted and Cameron Brown is likely to.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Wisconsin has already proved the bolded part false.

Not this argument again. People need to realize this is an unreliable metric due to small sample size and causation vs correlation.

You are aware this isn't really a debatable topic. right?

Wisconsin is the leper in that group, they last won the conference in 2012 because the top two teams in their division at the time were ineligible. Go take a look at the rankings of the teams in the playoffs and get back to this topic.