Weird Time for Christians

Crusader Husker said:
I would consider myself a conservative Christian.  I was prepared to not like the article, however, the author is right on many accounts.  I fell that evangelicals lost their way as they sold themselves to the Republican party.  When it comes to politics I feel any group screws themselves when they put all of their eggs in one basket. (political party)  Christians have done this with the Repubs.  You end up living or dying with them.  Ask the groups on the left who feel disenfranchised right now.  As Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's."  I have many friends who are very conservative Christians who are also liberal.  Some Christians would think they are headed to hell.  I think that would go against what the Bible teachers.
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Semi-related thought...

I can get being Christian and having abortion be your #1 priority and voting for anyone not Democrat (even though the Republicans haven't really tried to do much about it in ages).

What I don't get is why more Christians can't admit that it's why they vote Republican. Why do so many go gungho and defend every. single. thing the Republicans and whoever's representing them at the time is doing? If they would actually think for themselves maybe they could affect policy when their party is doing stupid or un-Christian things.

 
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This was a WEIRD year to celebrate Christmas as a non-Christian who has always loved saying "Merry Xmas" to friends & family. It's still a time for warmth and gatherings, but I try to avoid going about it in a way that mirrors the indignant self-styled warriors, who are rejoicing now that they are "allowed" to celebrate it openly again. That adorable little girl thanking our Glorious Prez for bringing Christmas back in the same heartwarming style as any nostalgia-filled Christmas movie was completely wrenching. Ugh. Not only do I have zero desire to indulge them, I want to make it clear that there is no common cause here.

 
Was curious how this most recent set of comments would play out with our evangelicals.  Sadly, there aren't many standing up and speaking to their supposed "values".  The one in particular that I find offensive is the hispanic pastor.


 
I don't get how evangelicals stand by this guy. IIRC, his numbers with them have remained steady, if not increased. 

How much are they willing to excuse away? All I know is that, much like a $25M for Trump university goers, you don't pay $130K to a porn star one month before the election because you're a nice guy.


The Wall Street Journal reported that Michael Cohen, an attorney for the Trump Organization at the time and now Trump’s personal lawyer, arranged for Stephanie Clifford, known in the industry as Stormy Daniels, to receive $130,000 as part of a nondisclosure agreement one month before the 2016 presidential election.

Clifford has privately told sources interviewed by the Journal that she and Trump had a consensual sexual encounter in 2006, the year after he and Melania Trump were married. Clifford was 27 years old at the time of the alleged encounter in Lake Tahoe.
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Edit: It looks like she was getting ready to go public for an interview. 

Man, when I think of all the pieces that fell the way that did that could've possibly prevented this daily hell we're currently living through...


 
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I think we should have some introspection about our fascination with actors in adult films and how how that results in the way these human beings treated. The same, kinda perverse fascination with their industry that drives powerful men to prey on them because they can, feeds our breathless captive audience to news stories the thrust of which is inevitably "OMG, porn star."

I mean, Trump is a completely loathsome individual. He doesn't respect women. He has no fidelity to his wife. He wields his power for access and preys on anyone he can render into a prize or temporary object. These are the important things about this allegation, the reasons such stories should be presented as moral questions to e.g evangelicals who continue to support Trump. Not the fact that the woman's profession is pornography, which renders the subtext: she is vile and the man debases himself by association. But the headlines, the framing of the stories...all products of & tools to reinforce a culture that is about shaming and degrading women, and puritanical about sex.

I actually think of course evangelicals don't have an issue with this for that reason. She's just a porn star. The comparison I'd make is that Republican congressman who fights to prevent access to abortions but had his mistress get him. She's just a slut, so what? Dehumanize someone to that extent and the rules for how to look at them and treat them no longer apply. Women, unsurprisingly, the frequent targets.

 
@zoogs, I never held her occupation against her. I've never understood the moral brigade that feels the need to slut shame & attack those who choose to make a living doing porn. It's just a job, like anything else. That wasn't the notable part of the story for me. It was the fact that Trump appears to cheat on his wife after only roughly one year of being married to her, at which point Melania was pregnant with their youngest child.

I couldn't possibly care less that she is a porn star. Maybe some feel differently & that was part of how it proliferated in the media. I was more taken aback that  he cheated on his pregnant wife & paid hush money to keep it quiet.
 

I talked to a woman when canvassing in 2016 who said she could not vote for Clinton after "staying with Bill with what he's done to her." I've heard both sides of that coin from peoople. I still think it's pretty close to victim blaming, but she was a fairly reasonable woman. People ascribing pretty gross motives to the Clintons is nothing new. I wonder if she would have similar thoughts about Melania if presented with the relevant information.

And of course, a day after this news breaks, the great pillar of hope for American Christianity, shining brightly in the wilderness, Mike Pence, has crawled back into his hole & has nothing to say. Some may feel he's a reasonable, respectable alternative to Trump. I will never forgive him of his complicity in all of this, or for some of his reprehensible beliefs.

 
Yup, agree. I just have a small issue with all the headlines being of the same mature here. There must be another way to frame the story! 

 
I guess the only thing about this that really matters is that it’s more evidence of Trump’s infadelity.....which speaks to his trustworthiness. 

I really dont don’t care that she’s a porn star. It really is no business of mine in this story.....unless someone can show she’s some sort of sex slave forced into the industry.  I think she’s a pretty big star and probably has enough money to do what she wants....which tells me she likes making porn. 

Their rekationship hip was consensual so I don’t see how he “preyed on her”. 

 
This could be an interesting conversation all by itself.  The WSJ, for whatever reason, had the intention of letting their readers know the woman was an adult-film actress.  Why?

Did they do it make the story more believable?  The average reader, I think, would be more apt to believe a person who has sex for a living would take part in an extra-marital affair.  This is her decision: whatever.  But it would absolutely be a stain on a person who claimed moral high ground over the Clinton's for that reason.  (Even though everyone should have already known he cheats on his wives as well).

Would the story carry more weight if her identity wasn't released?  If the readers were left to believe that the woman was a "victim" that was paid hush money would definitely pull harder at the heart strings of readers.  But the WSJ knew the identity would be revealed out of necessity, so why not just start there?

 
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I think my suggestion would just be to present this story as Trump had an affair and paid off the woman to try to keep it quiet.  It’s not a detail that needs to be stricken from the story, and you’re right that this is really another conversation altogether. People are referred to by their occupation a lot, but I just feel like there’s something especially dehumanizing when it’s a woman in adult film, or a sex worker, etc. 

 
zoogs said:
I think my suggestion would just be to present this story as Trump had an affair and paid off the woman to try to keep it quiet.  It’s not a detail that needs to be stricken from the story, and you’re right that this is really another conversation altogether. People are referred to by their occupation a lot, but I just feel like there’s something especially dehumanizing when it’s a woman in adult film, or a sex worker, etc. 
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Or a man in the same line of work ...

 
zoogs said:
I think my suggestion would just be to present this story as Trump had an affair and paid off the woman to try to keep it quiet.  It’s not a detail that needs to be stricken from the story, and you’re right that this is really another conversation altogether. People are referred to by their occupation a lot, but I just feel like there’s something especially dehumanizing when it’s a woman in adult film, or a sex worker, etc. 
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I think that is what they did.  But they also volunteered she did adult films.  Maybe to take the brunt of the "blowback" right away.

I don't agree with this hypothetical, but I can definitely imagine it: People are actually outraged that Trump cheated on his wife within a year of their wedding while she was pregnant with their son.  They then find out the other woman was a "porn star".  I could see the conversation quickly go to "well, there you have it!" and "that slut!!!!"

What a sad world we live in....

 
zoogs said:
but I just feel like there’s something especially dehumanizing when it’s a woman in adult film, or a sex worker, etc. 
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I mean, that's definitely true.

Maybe....I'll admit this is a big if, just entertaining hypotheticals and playing devil's advocate, but maybe they're trying to subvert that dehumanization? The porn industry is dehumanizing to women, period. Everyone either consciously or subconsciously knows that. So maybe they're trying to leverage that as a given to work as a megaphone of sorts towards how morally bankrupt Trump is? 

If I'm being honest, even I personally, as someone who thinks the porn industry is evil, unhealthy, and preys upon women, read this as a bigger indictment on Trump than if it was just some random faceless 'normal' woman. That's just my instinctual, honest and natural reaction. I don't think that's because I inadvertently think women who work in porn are shameful or less than, but the truth remains that because of that context it makes me think less of Trump, but not less of the woman. Idk.

 
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