Which Nebraska QB would you choose for Frost's offense?

[Mavric]

I'm not sure Ganz was all that much better of a passer than Martinez.  They played in different systems.  Ganz played in a system where a running back set the all-time Nebraska record for receptions.  More passes to RBs = higher completion percentage.

Consider the following:

In 2008 - the year Ganz started all year - Ganz was 285/420 for 67.9%.  That included 62 completions to RBs.  Over 13 games, that averages out to 4.7 completions to RBs per game.

In 2012 - the last year Martinez played a full season - Martinez was 228/368 for 62.0%.  But he only completed 41 passes to RBs.  Over 14 games, that is 2.9 completions to RBs per game.

So Ganz completed 1.8 more passes per game to RBs than Martinez did.  That is 62% more despite the fact that he only threw 14% more passes overall.  Had Martinez thrown and completed 1.8 more passes to RBs per game in 2012, he would have completed 68.7% of his passes for the year.

I'm not saying that necessarily makes Martinez a better passes or even as good of a passer.  But I'm not sure there's as much of a difference as it might look like there is.

 

[knapplc]

I'm not sure Ganz was all that much better of a passer than Martinez. 

I think a lot of routes & combos were designed to give Martinez, who hadn't played QB for more than a couple of years (if I recall correctly) before coming to NU, an easier time of reading his routes and making throws.  Taylor's ability to go through his progressions didn't come to the fore until his Junior year, and while he got better, it was never natural to him.  He was uncanny good at the zone read in his Freshman year, and of course he had that blazing speed that I don't think any other NU quarterback has ever had. I think Taylor was maximized in the offense he was in. 

Ganz was a natural QB.  He made reads very well. He had the kind of arm Frost's offense needs, plus the wheels to exploit a defense when they cheated against his arm.  Ganz could make all the throws, and his touch was much better. Martinez flat missed so many RBs in the flat, and never really got comfortable or natural with the short game.  Ganz was adept at that, and if it wasn't for Sam "Gunslinger" Keller coming in, would have been a multi-year starter.

 

[Mierin]

I think a lot of routes & combos were designed to give Martinez, who hadn't played QB for more than a couple of years (if I recall correctly) before coming to NU, an easier time of reading his routes and making throws.  Taylor's ability to go through his progressions didn't come to the fore until his Junior year, and while he got better, it was never natural to him.  He was uncanny good at the zone read in his Freshman year, and of course he had that blazing speed that I don't think any other NU quarterback has ever had. I think Taylor was maximized in the offense he was in. 

Ganz was a natural QB.  He made reads very well. He had the kind of arm Frost's offense needs, plus the wheels to exploit a defense when they cheated against his arm.  Ganz could make all the throws, and his touch was much better. Martinez flat missed so many RBs in the flat, and never really got comfortable or natural with the short game.  Ganz was adept at that, and if it wasn't for Sam "Gunslinger" Keller coming in, would have been a multi-year starter.

Not sure which way you mean the bold. I don't remember Martinez often throwing it badly to the flat, but I do remember him almost never seeing it there while I yelled at the TV. (Obvious exception was to Burkhead when we beat OSU).

 

[Mavric]

I think a lot of routes & combos were designed to give Martinez, who hadn't played QB for more than a couple of years (if I recall correctly) before coming to NU, an easier time of reading his routes and making throws.  Taylor's ability to go through his progressions didn't come to the fore until his Junior year, and while he got better, it was never natural to him.  He was uncanny good at the zone read in his Freshman year, and of course he had that blazing speed that I don't think any other NU quarterback has ever had. I think Taylor was maximized in the offense he was in. 

Ganz was a natural QB.  He made reads very well. He had the kind of arm Frost's offense needs, plus the wheels to exploit a defense when they cheated against his arm.  Ganz could make all the throws, and his touch was much better. Martinez flat missed so many RBs in the flat, and never really got comfortable or natural with the short game.  Ganz was adept at that, and if it wasn't for Sam "Gunslinger" Keller coming in, would have been a multi-year starter.

Ganz was an OK runner who seemed really good at it because we were used to guys who couldn't move at all.  Ganz ran for 258 yards in 2008 ... for the season.  Martinez ran for 241 yards against Kansas State.  Obviously there is a disparity of opportunities but Ganz was mobile enough to get a few yards when he could.  Martinez could literally win games with his legs alone.

As is evidenced by The Professor's comments in the wake of POB leaving the team, athleticism is a priority for this staff.  Ganz may have had somewhat of an edge throwing.  But Martinez could run circles around him as a rushing threat.

 

[gobiggergoredder]

 Any of you think Frost would ever start T Martinez at QB?  That some funny shizzle right there.

 

[Mierin]

 Any of you think Frost would ever start T Martinez at QB?  That some funny shizzle right there.

Yes.

He completed 59.8% of his passes and ran like the wind. I don't give a s#!t what it looked like. Doubt Frost would have made it a deciding factor either.

 

[knapplc]

Ganz was an OK runner who seemed really good at it because we were used to guys who couldn't move at all.  Ganz ran for 258 yards in 2008 ... for the season.  Martinez ran for 241 yards against Kansas State.  Obviously there is a disparity of opportunities but Ganz was mobile enough to get a few yards when he could.  Martinez could literally win games with his legs alone.

As is evidenced by The Professor's comments in the wake of POB leaving the team, athleticism is a priority for this staff.  Ganz may have had somewhat of an edge throwing.  But Martinez could run circles around him as a rushing threat.

Ganz was in an offense that maximized his opportunities to run like Martinez was in an offense that maximized his ability to pass.

Martinez couldn't pass like Ganz.

Ganz could NOT run like Martinez.

So the question becomes, what does Frost's offense value more, an accurate-throwing QB who can run, or a running QB who can throw?  I'll be honest & say I'm not super well versed in Frost's offense, but from my limited research (which consists of watching a couple of UCF games on youtube) it seems that he wants a QB with an accurate arm and serviceable legs.  That's more Ganz than Martinez.

You give Frost either Ganz or Martinez and I think he'll make something serviceable out of them.  But if it's a choice between the two, I think he chooses peak Ganz.

 

[knapplc]

Not sure which way you mean the bold. I don't remember Martinez often throwing it badly to the flat, but I do remember him almost never seeing it there while I yelled at the TV. (Obvious exception was to Burkhead when we beat OSU).

Hah! I actually thought of that pass to Burkhead as I wrote that.  I could pull up some video to support what I'm talking about with Martinez, but I'm not going to.  I remember him overthrowing Burkhead and Abdullah on a bunch of short passes, while Ganz could make that throw in his sleep.  Martinez could bust off a TD run from anywhere on the field while Ganz, clearly, could not. But Ganz could make the throws Frost wants.  I don't have that confidence in Martinez.

 

[gobiggergoredder]

Yes.

He completed 59.8% of his passes and ran like the wind. I don't give a s#!t what it looked like. Doubt Frost would have made it a deciding factor either.

Great athlete, not a great QB.  Everyone feels it move when they talk about the K State game when he was as a freshman and then what “Could have been”.

In my opinion he was a liability for 3 years.

 

[Mierin]

Hah! I actually thought of that pass to Burkhead as I wrote that.  I could pull up some video to support what I'm talking about with Martinez, but I'm not going to.  I remember him overthrowing Burkhead and Abdullah on a bunch of short passes, while Ganz could make that throw in his sleep.  Martinez could bust off a TD run from anywhere on the field while Ganz, clearly, could not. But Ganz could make the throws Frost wants.  I don't have that confidence in Martinez.

I'm sure he did it, just don't remember it happening that often because I remember getting annoyed at him not using it when he should.

 

[Mavric]

Ganz was in an offense that maximized his opportunities to run like Martinez was in an offense that maximized his ability to pass.

Martinez couldn't pass like Ganz.

Ganz could NOT run like Martinez.

So the question becomes, what does Frost's offense value more, an accurate-throwing QB who can run, or a running QB who can throw?  I'll be honest & say I'm not super well versed in Frost's offense, but from my limited research (which consists of watching a couple of UCF games on youtube) it seems that he wants a QB with an accurate arm and serviceable legs.  That's more Ganz than Martinez.

You give Frost either Ganz or Martinez and I think he'll make something serviceable out of them.  But if it's a choice between the two, I think he choose peak Ganz.

I think the difference is - as you alluded to - the advantages are not equal and opposite.  If you rate them on a 10 point scale, Ganz was probably an 8 passing while Martinez was maybe a 6 or 7.  But on the rushing scale, Ganz was maybe a 5 while Martinez was a 10.  So while in general I agree that Frost would rather have a little better passer, the possibility of having an guy who is a threat to score every play would be enough to give up a little throwing the ball.

 

[Mierin]

Great athlete, not a great QB.  Everyone feels it move when they talk about the K State game when he was as a freshman and then what “Could have been”.

In my opinion he was a liability for 3 years.

There are lots of words and arguments to use about Martinez if you didn't think he was a great QB but "liability" is a horribly inaccurate one. Martinez sometimes carried the team on his back during those 3 years.

 

[knapplc]

I think the difference is - as you alluded to - the advantages are not equal and opposite.  If you rate them on a 10 point scale, Ganz was probably an 8 passing while Martinez was maybe a 6 or 7.  But on the rushing scale, Ganz was maybe a 5 while Martinez was a 10.  So while in general I agree that Frost would rather have a little better passer, the possibility of having an guy who is a threat to score every play would be enough to give up a little throwing the ball.

The question goes to the nature of the QB in Frost's offense. And again, I'm not well versed enough in it to know for sure if it favors the run over the pass, but my short take on it is it favors the pass, and that favors Ganz.

Of course, this is all moot because Steve Taylor, Gerry Gdowski and/or Turner Gill are the actual correct answers to this poll. But those guys haven't played in 30 years so it's hard to argue.

 

[knapplc]

There are lots of words and arguments to use about Martinez if you didn't think he was a great QB but "liability" is a horribly inaccurate one. Martinez sometimes carried the team on his back during those 3 years.

Yeah.  If that low tackle never hits Taylor's leg in just the right way, he could have been a Heisman contender and he'd be running away with this poll.

 

[gobiggergoredder]

There are lots of words and arguments to use about Martinez if you didn't think he was a great QB but "liability" is a horribly inaccurate one. Martinez sometimes carried the team on his back during those 3 years.

Pretty heavy load carrying Burkhead, Abdullah, Helu, Kinnie, Paul, Allen, Q, Moore and Bell.  One might think they carried poor QB play.

This jump ball BS we’ve been watching for 9 years doesn’t work.  It has been exposed that tossing the ball into the air and letting Bell or Westy make a play is at best marginally successful.

Frost is looking for a smart QB that is athletic and throw accurately.