Why isn't Hillary Clinton in Jail?

ZRod said:
That's fine, you can wear your tinfoil hat and I'll live in reality. Journalism has integrity despite what you may think (granted there are Journalist who taint the reputation for all of them). Quality stories are written all the time using multiple sources and verifiable facts. You choosing not to follow or believe them doesn't change the fact that they exist.
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HA!

Bro, the news is literally nothing more than a vehicle to push political agendas and make people even more left or even more right than they already are.  That's why they stopped reporting news and started commentating on it.  That's why we have 24 hour panels about shootings etc instead of one anchor reporting the story for 15-30 seconds.  People LOVE reality TV, and people LOVE hearing other people talk about reality TV and the government LOVES that we are so easily distracted.

As already said, partisan politics is specifically in place to keep the country divided because it's far easier to control a country divided than it is one united.

 
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Redux said:
HA!

Bro, the news is literally nothing more than a vehicle to push political agendas and make people even more left or even more right than they already are.  That's why they stopped reporting news and started commentating on it.  That's why we have 24 hour panels about shootings etc instead of one anchor reporting the story for 15-30 seconds.  People LOVE reality TV, and people LOVE hearing other people talk about reality TV and the government LOVES that we are so easily distracted.

As already said, partisan politics is specifically in place to keep the country divided because it's far easier to control a country divided than it is one united.
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Try reading then, you'll learn a lot more than listening to a talking head and you'll have time to digest the info and find other sources for comparison. It's comical that you dismiss anything contrary to your opinion with little to no evidence, but continue to spew conspiracy theories. 

Partisan politics are a result of differing opinions, it's something that's been around since democracy was invented, in one form or another. Its pretty bad right now, but it has been worse, and will get better with the right people taking action. The government is the people, if you have a problem with the way things are then run for office and change it, start a protest, or at the very least vote accordingly.

 
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ZRod said:
Try reading then, you'll learn a lot more than listening to a talking head and you'll have time to digest the info and find other sources for comparison. It's comical that you dismiss anything contrary to your opinion with little to no evidence, but continue to spew conspiracy theories. 

Partisan politics are a result of differing opinions, it's something that's been around since democracy was invented in one form or another. Its pretty bad right now, but it has been worse, and will get better with the right people taking action. The government is the people, if you have a problem with the way things are then run for office and change it, start a protest, or at the very least vote accordingly.
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Here is my issue with politics, people take them way too personally.  Probably because they think they actually have an influence on them on the national level.  Agree to disagree.  I'm not here to offer you any evidence, merely opinion.  Not even asking you to like it.  Just don't act smug because I won't concede that you're right and I'm wrong.

You say there's no evidence of my crazy theories or proof of shadow government etc.  Yet you yourself said that secret government dealings are coming to light.  So which is it?

Partisan politics are most definitely a result of differing opinions.  But it's also become a tool of keeping the people controlled.  And I disagree, the government is NOT the people and hasn't been for quite some time.

 
Redux said:
Here is my issue with politics, people take them way too personally.  Probably because they think they actually have an influence on them on the national level.  Agree to disagree.  I'm not here to offer you any evidence, merely opinion.  Not even asking you to like it.  Just don't act smug because I won't concede that you're right and I'm wrong.

You say there's no evidence of my crazy theories or proof of shadow government etc.  Yet you yourself said that secret government dealings are coming to light.  So which is it?

Partisan politics are most definitely a result of differing opinions.  But it's also become a tool of keeping the people controlled.  And I disagree, the government is NOT the people and hasn't been for quite some time.
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Politics is taken personally because it is personal. It literally affects how we will live our lives and interact with others.

I'm not acting smug, I'm refuting what your saying with the facts I have at hand. I'm not asking you to concede any more than you are asking me to. We're having a discussion. I just don't believe in your conspiracy because I don't see the extraordinary evidence being present that is required to believe it. I'm just getting ready for the patented Redux walk away  :P

The DNC and the RNC are not the government. They cannot prosecute someone for their crimes, they cannot inact policy, although they can influence it, and they cannot conduct meaningful investigations. So what "shadow government" are we talking about?

 
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ZRod said:
Politics is taken personally because it is personal. It literally affects how we will likely e our lives and interact with others.

I'm not acting smug, I'm refuting what your saying with the facts I have at hand. I'm not asking you to concede any more than you are asking me to. We're having a discussion. I just don't believe in your conspiracy because I don't see the extraordinary evidence being present that is required to believe it. I'm just getting ready for the patented Redux walk away  :P

The DNC and the RNC are not the government. They cannot prosecute someone for their crimes, they cannot inact policy, although they can influence it, and they cannot conduct meaningful investigations. So what "shadow government" are we talking about?
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1- No, it's only personal if you want it to be.  It does affect our lives, but you and I literally do not affect it.

2- I mean I'm sure you don't think you are, in fact I'm positive you don't think you are.  But literally the last sentence of your paragraph is about as smug as it gets.  I walk away because as per usual, my entering this forum is regrettable.  It's not an enjoyable experience for those with differing opinions and it's not a welcoming environment.

Also to the smug thing, the constant use of words like delusional and ignorant towards the minority of thinking, it's pretty smug.  It also get's justified in here as acceptable by it's definition, but really it's a way to be kind of dickish towards people and get away with an insult.  Not looking to argue that point, honestly just some food for thought.

3- I'll be honest.  I don't sit at a computer researching the Illuminati and Free Masons and Shadow Government.  I just personally believe it's naive to think the population still has as much control as it once did.  I personally believe the country is run by different entities behind the scenes and different people than the ones we supposedly elect to office as civil servants.  I can tell you are a firm believer in the American Dream way of looking at politics, that Joe Schmo still can have his voice heard and affect things.  I don't want to take that away from you.

 
1. Here's my rebuttal - if we as the people can't affect change then what was the point of protesting for gay rights, and why did things change after those protests drew attention to the issue over time?

2. That's your opinion, and I'm sorry you feel that way. And yeah, the line about you walking away is smug, I said it because you do it everytime (sometimes I'm a d!(k :dunno ). I actually did take your comments about me using the word ignorant to heart. I try not to use the word unless it's appropriate to describe a lack of knowledge. Although I wish  people would stop being offended by a word that literally describes all of us on one issue or another. I call myself ignorant all the time.

As best I can remember the last time I used it was when Hskprd (or whatever his name is) threw out a bunch of unfounded and irrational gobbledygook at one of my posts where he didn't even bother reading the article I posted.

3. I used to "research" (aka Google and listen to music and such) about government conspiracies and the like when I was in highschool and college. I wish I could still believe in them because it's more fun to think that there is a mass shadow operation that we can't see controlling us, but unfortunately I think reality is far less interesting. I don't entirely believe in the "American Dream", it's near impossible for someone to get from the bottom to somewhere near the top. Although I do know that we are the masters of our own destiny. 

No hard feelings Redunce, I know you and I would get along just fine over a couple beers.

 
Redux said:
1- No, it's only personal if you want it to be.  It does affect our lives, but you and I literally do not affect it.

2- I mean I'm sure you don't think you are, in fact I'm positive you don't think you are.  But literally the last sentence of your paragraph is about as smug as it gets.  I walk away because as per usual, my entering this forum is regrettable.  It's not an enjoyable experience for those with differing opinions and it's not a welcoming environment.

Also to the smug thing, the constant use of words like delusional and ignorant towards the minority of thinking, it's pretty smug.  It also get's justified in here as acceptable by it's definition, but really it's a way to be kind of dickish towards people and get away with an insult.  Not looking to argue that point, honestly just some food for thought.

3- I'll be honest.  I don't sit at a computer researching the Illuminati and Free Masons and Shadow Government.  I just personally believe it's naive to think the population still has as much control as it once did.  I personally believe the country is run by different entities behind the scenes and different people than the ones we supposedly elect to office as civil servants.  I can tell you are a firm believer in the American Dream way of looking at politics, that Joe Schmo still can have his voice heard and affect things.  I don't want to take that away from you.
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If you actually do want to look more into #3, money in politics is what you want to look into. You’re right we don’t have much control and when the mega rich can buy politicians and policy it ceases to be a democracy. It’s not the Clintons of the world that have the behind the scenes power it’s the oil companies and the Walmarts and the Coca-colas.

 
Moiraine said:
If you actually do want to look more into #3, money in politics is what you want to look into. You’re right we don’t have much control and when the mega rich can buy politicians and policy it ceases to be a democracy. It’s not the Clintons of the world that have the behind the scenes power it’s the oil companies and the Walmarts and the Coca-colas.
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^^^ I'd give this a +50 if I could ^^^

 
Moiraine said:
If you actually do want to look more into #3, money in politics is what you want to look into. You’re right we don’t have much control and when the mega rich can buy politicians and policy it ceases to be a democracy. It’s not the Clintons of the world that have the behind the scenes power it’s the oil companies and the Walmarts and the Coca-colas.
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Redux said:
Corporations have way more power than most think.  It's alarming.  Why else would healthcare costs be as high as they are, medical supplies like needles and kleenex cost as much as they do and treatment for life threatening diseases be so hard to get and afford?
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+1000 to you both

 
The claim that the news is a puppet arm of politicians is really sad, as someone who has many of journalist friends who constantly risk reputation, well being, sometimes even their lives in reporting stories.

 
Redux said:
1- No, it's only personal if you want it to be.  It does affect our lives, but you and I literally do not affect it.

2- I mean I'm sure you don't think you are, in fact I'm positive you don't think you are.  But literally the last sentence of your paragraph is about as smug as it gets.  I walk away because as per usual, my entering this forum is regrettable.  It's not an enjoyable experience for those with differing opinions and it's not a welcoming environment.

Also to the smug thing, the constant use of words like delusional and ignorant towards the minority of thinking, it's pretty smug.  It also get's justified in here as acceptable by it's definition, but really it's a way to be kind of dickish towards people and get away with an insult.  Not looking to argue that point, honestly just some food for thought.

3- I'll be honest.  I don't sit at a computer researching the Illuminati and Free Masons and Shadow Government.  I just personally believe it's naive to think the population still has as much control as it once did.  I personally believe the country is run by different entities behind the scenes and different people than the ones we supposedly elect to office as civil servants.  I can tell you are a firm believer in the American Dream way of looking at politics, that Joe Schmo still can have his voice heard and affect things.  I don't want to take that away from you.
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I don't get this constant refrain from people that you have to leave P&R because your opinions aren't agreed with. That's kinda the entire point of this forum.  You want an echo chamber where everyone agrees, you're going to have a dead forum. What makes this one of the best P&R forums around are the disagreements - and the twisted ways we agree & disagree with each other. BRB is one of my most favorite "reads" in this forum because I agree with half what he says and I disagree with half what he says. It's interesting and fun.

People disagree with me here all the time. Daily. But that's the nature of discussion. And being told you're wrong, shown you're wrong, is one of the best free educations you can get. I learn tons from this forum.

It's all in what you're willing to put into it, I guess. 

But I'll ruin your fun a little - I agree with you about a lot of this post. While we can vote, and on a micro (local) government level we have an affect, on a macro (federal) level our effect is dampened, almost to the point of nonexistence.  Also, people who regularly post in this forum appreciate and seek out informed opinions, and when we're confronted with opinions not based in fact, words akin to delusional are used. The best way to combat that is to let facts form your opinions. And it helps to be skeptical of the facts you find.

I agree with you that the the government is run by different entities - corporations, the military, the corporations that work with the military, pharmaceutical companies, etc. I don't know what we can do about that on an individual level, but I can promise you that giving up, ceding what little control we have, isn't the answer. Some call that naive (which is a word not a lot different than delusional), but I'm not going to give up.

 
Oh I agree, a one sided P&R forum is definitely an echo chamber.  And to avoid this one becoming exactly that, I would maybe suggest being a little less combative.  But that's politics I guess, not my cup of tea to tear into another person because they view a certain issue slightly to majorly different than you.  Lifes too short to let issues we can't control stress me out.

Frankly, I just don't have the free time necessary to be an active member of political discussion.  My nature is to hear what someone says, regardless of their stance, and try to see why they think that at the same time I'm thinking why their stromg opinion is wrong.  Problem is, I don't come bearing a ton of facts and links to properly combat said opinion, just my own opinion most the time.  Honestly the reason I probably lean further right than left is because of the defensive nature left leaners tend to have, it's just an unattractive quality to me.  Well that and the fact I live in rural Nebraska.

 
Redux said:
Problem is, I don't come bearing a ton of facts and links to properly combat said opinion, just my own opinion most the time.  Honestly the reason I probably lean further right than left is because of the defensive nature left leaners tend to have, it's just an unattractive quality to me. 
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That's fine, but when people who bring opinion to a facts fight are confronted with facts, there's two ways to respond. They can readjust their opinion to comport with the facts or they can - and we see this here a lot - get angry at those who use facts to form their opinion.  The accusation is that the use of facts to support opinion is "defensive," but it's not - it's truth.

Notice that the people who form their opinions around facts are the ones who last the longest in P&R. That's not an accident. 

 
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