Against the Run in "Big" B1G Games

[Undone]

I rarely create threads but wanted a discussion around this particular topic.  Here we are again. 

Michigan blocked and executed well yesterday; I think they have to get credit there for sure. But here's their first play from scrimmage on offense:

Yes, I realize that we edge blitzed and that it was a bit unlucky there because then there's one less guy in the flat for run support. But seriously...there's Dedrick Young again. Biting into a spot where nothing is happening. Looking flat-footed. And then just jogging towards the play (at first) when he thinks the guy is past him and that somebody else will make the tackle. Then he speeds up...but it's too late. This is pretty much the same formation that we were lined up in on Troy's last two plays where not having three linebackers between the hashes is risky.

So they found this play that just zips through the B gap. And then they did it over and over and humiliated us with it.

I've asked this question of anyone that will listen now for 5+ seasons - Why can't we look at the film of what every other team in the top half of the conference does on defense to stop the run and emulate that? When I watch Purdue, for example, I see a team who coaches their linebackers to stay in position in the center of the field. This is a run-centric conference, after all. And Michigan is a run-first, hit-you-with-play-action team.  

I don't claim to know more than Chinander and Frost about drawing up a defense. But I can watch the film and see what's happening. If we don't do something different against Wisconsin, they will do the same thing. This is partially a scheme issue and not just an effort issue (but there are some guys on defense where effort is a problem). 

 

[JJ Husker]

I think you nailed it on the head. Yes we have seen some effort issues but stopping the run in the B1G with this defense is going to be a huge scheme issue. Either that, or our linebackers are not doing what they are taught to do. I didn’t see much in the way of adjustments and they gashed us all day like this so I’ll go with calling it a scheme or coaching issue. 

I had visions of the 2001 debacle in Boulder and the Gordon is still running Wisconsin game.  Possibly the worst half of football I’ve ever seen from a Nebraska team and after the last 20 years that is saying a lot.

 

[Undone]

Yeah.

And I'm not saying that Chinander shouldn't have brought his 3-4 scheme to Lincoln. Not saying that at all. The Patriots have played a lot of 3-4 in the past several years and there are many parallels there; the NFL is pretty much nothing but downhill running, similar to how the B1G is mainly downhill running.

Bo would always make it sound like his linebackers and corners had to do a calculus equation prior to the snap in order to know where to play to. Again, when I watch just an average Big 10 team's defense playing that's not what I see happening. It's more "zone" in nature. And this makes sense in a downhill running conference (with the exception of some of Ohio State's zone read offense, etc.).

I'm pretty interested in seeing how many rushing yards and points Michigan puts up against Northwestern this weekend. 

 

[lo country]

I rarely create threads but wanted a discussion around this particular topic.  Here we are again. 

Michigan blocked and executed well yesterday; I think they have to get credit there for sure. But here's their first play from scrimmage on offense:

Yes, I realize that we edge blitzed and that it was a bit unlucky there because then there's one less guy in the flat for run support. But seriously...there's Dedrick Young again. Biting into a spot where nothing is happening. Looking flat-footed. And then just jogging towards the play (at first) when he thinks the guy is past him and that somebody else will make the tackle. Then he speeds up...but it's too late. This is pretty much the same formation that we were lined up in on Troy's last two plays where not having three linebackers between the hashes is risky.

So they found this play that just zips through the B gap. And then they did it over and over and humiliated us with it.

I've asked this question of anyone that will listen now for 5+ seasons - Why can't we look at the film of what every other team in the top half of the conference does on defense to stop the run and emulate that? When I watch Purdue, for example, I see a team who coaches their linebackers to stay in position in the center of the field. This is a run-centric conference, after all. And Michigan is a run-first, hit-you-with-play-action team.  

I don't claim to know more than Chinander and Frost about drawing up a defense. But I can watch the film and see what's happening. If we don't do something different against Wisconsin, they will do the same thing. This is partially a scheme issue and not just an effort issue (but there are some guys on defense where effort is a problem). 

Great points.  I will had to also look at how other teams defend the sweep, the screen pass and avoid getting caught up in the rub routes....

Who is the DB that blitzes straight into Michigan's OT on the left side. Gotta teach them to run around the OL....not get pancaked...

I'd also start Honas in Young's place....At least his mistakes are going 100 MPH

To add-Will Frost's UCF scheme work in the B1G.  Not his process ie fundamentals, technique, attention to the details, coaching style etc... But the "X" and "O" of what he used offensively and defensively.  

 

[Undone]

Who is the DB that blitzes straight into Michigan's OT on the left side. Gotta teach them to run around the OL....not get pancaked...

Aaron Williams, but that's probably his assignment. Seems like Young is supposed to protect that gap...but gets himself out of position by basically lurching forward into a space where nobody is before the play really even starts developing.

 

[lo country]

Aaron Williams, but that's probably his assignment. Seems like Young is supposed to protect that gap...but gets himself out of position by basically lurching forward into a space where nobody is before the play really even starts developing.

Thanks.  So Williams crashed in to turn the RB to the lane that Young isn't in......We've gotta do better....

 

[BigRedBuster]

I rarely create threads but wanted a discussion around this particular topic.  Here we are again. 

Michigan blocked and executed well yesterday; I think they have to get credit there for sure. But here's their first play from scrimmage on offense:

Yes, I realize that we edge blitzed and that it was a bit unlucky there because then there's one less guy in the flat for run support. But seriously...there's Dedrick Young again. Biting into a spot where nothing is happening. Looking flat-footed. And then just jogging towards the play (at first) when he thinks the guy is past him and that somebody else will make the tackle. Then he speeds up...but it's too late. This is pretty much the same formation that we were lined up in on Troy's last two plays where not having three linebackers between the hashes is risky.

So they found this play that just zips through the B gap. And then they did it over and over and humiliated us with it.

I've asked this question of anyone that will listen now for 5+ seasons - Why can't we look at the film of what every other team in the top half of the conference does on defense to stop the run and emulate that? When I watch Purdue, for example, I see a team who coaches their linebackers to stay in position in the center of the field. This is a run-centric conference, after all. And Michigan is a run-first, hit-you-with-play-action team.  

I don't claim to know more than Chinander and Frost about drawing up a defense. But I can watch the film and see what's happening. If we don't do something different against Wisconsin, they will do the same thing. This is partially a scheme issue and not just an effort issue (but there are some guys on defense where effort is a problem). 

What an absolute frustrating play.

Both Young and Mo are pathetic on this play.  First, I'm guessing Young is coached to at least get to the outside to not let the RB get the edge and push him back into help defense.  In theory, I don't have  problem with that.   But, he gets too far out side and can't recover.  

Mo, just basically sits there and allows himself to get blocked.  I usually love Mo and think he gives great effort, but, on this play, he is extremely late to react and allows the O lineman to get a very easy block on him.

 

[Undone]

Here's their second touchdown. Same play:

Looks like Alex Davis is in to create a four man front on the right. Which I like a lot. And the I believe I see Caleb Tannor as a fifth guy on the left edge of our line. They have a six man front. 

More mindless play from Young. He casually steps to his left and bumps into Barry. Barry - actually reading the play well - tries to get over to make a play Young should have made in the first place.

Seriously...so depressing.

 

[3rd and long]

Young seems to take himself out of position quite often. He flows hard to the outside (guessing he’s reading a pulling guard?),but so far that when they hand off inside he’s completely out of the play. 

 

[4skers89]

Here's their second touchdown. Same play:



Looks like Alex Davis is in to create a four man front on the right. Which I like a lot. And the I believe I see Caleb Tannor as a fifth guy on the left edge of our line. They have a six man front. 

More mindless play from Young. He casually steps to his left and bumps into Barry. Barry - actually reading the play well - tries to get over to make a play Young should have made in the first place.

Seriously...so depressing.

If you make a mental mistake then you’re out of position to make a tackle and those big meanie Michigan players can’t give you a booboo. That’s what I’m seeing on these plays.

 

[Undone]

If you make a mental mistake then you’re out of position to make a tackle and those big meanie Michigan players can’t give you a booboo. That’s what I’m seeing on these plays.

So if you're Chinander, you pull Young out and put Honas in, IMO. Because it just almost can't be any worse than what you see in those two plays.

This kind of stuff is potentially fixable right now. There are a couple of guys on defense that are obviously "really good in practice" but just make mental mistakes in live game time.

 

[4skers89]

So if you're Chinander, you pull Young out and put Honas in, IMO. Because it just almost can't be any worse than what you see in those two plays.

This kind of stuff is potentially fixable right now. There are a couple of guys on defense that are obviously "really good in practice" but just make mental mistakes in live game time.

This makes me think you misunderstood my post so I’ll be very clear. I don’t think that was a mental “mistake” at all. They’re putting themselves out of the play to avoid contact. Yea put Honas in, he seems to have the toughness needed to play football at Nebraska.

 

[Undone]

This makes me think you misunderstood my post so I’ll be very clear. I don’t think that was a mental “mistake” at all. They’re putting themselves out of the play to avoid contact. Yea put Honas in, he seems to have the toughness needed to play football at Nebraska.

I gotcha. That's a pretty bold theory and would be a new low for Husker football. Charlie McBride would probably whip a guy's *** into the next area code for such a thing.

 

[r06ue1]

The 3-4 is not the issue, Wisconsin runs the 3-4 and they had one of the best defenses in the country last year (18th in total defense, 14th in scoring defense).  The 3-4 has some advantages against the spread option and the pass that the 4-3 does not have (though the 4-3 has its own benefits).  

What we are lacking is good talent on both sides of the ball, if Frost can correct that in this years recruiting cycle, I believe we will be very competitive next season and these huge blowouts will become a thing of the past.

 

[Undone]

The 3-4 is not the issue, Wisconsin runs the 3-4 and they had one of the best defenses in the country last year (18th in total defense, 14th in scoring defense).

I agree with that and stated that in the posts above. 

What you coach your linebackers to do in the 3-4 in a run-heavy conference is important, though. Very important. Talent isn't necessarily the issue, and I think the dissection of just those two plays above shows that. It's what's going on between the ears of a couple of players that's especially bad right now.

*Edit - Add "effort" to the list, too.