Purdue Post-Game Presser

[Making Chimichangas]

I have been through this in a sports setting. Did we get on guys for mistakes? Yes. Did we resent the coaches for it? Yes. Did it make us a better team that didn't make dumb mistakes and came together to play well? No. We made less mistakes sure, but we didn't like the coaches for it and never gelled as a team because guys were always on each other. 

I've been on another team that used the frost approach. Make mistakes at full speed and don't punish the team. We played better together fought for our coaches a s teammates and had more success. 

Why would you "resent" your coaches?  Their job is to win football games.  As a player, I would hope your goal would be to want to win as well--and that you'll be willing to pay the price to do what it takes in order to win.

The military is not much different.  No matter how hard our drill instructors hammered us, no one ever resented them; because we all understood they had a job to do, and it was our job to learn the training that could potentially save our lives in combat.

Point is, in my opinion, hating or resenting your coaches/instructors for demanding excellence is pretty pathetic.  If you're a player on a college football team and you're not there to give your all to win, then leave and go do something else.  Don't be the anchor or dead weight dragging the yeam down.  

 

[Gage County]

Why would you "resent" your coaches? 

Unjust punishment has negative side effects. One of the possible side effects you cited is team division.

I am here to tell you, nothing will turn a team (or platoon) against a fellow member faster than them being hammered with PT while the offender(s) watch. 

@WyoHusker56 is giving another negative side effect, resentment of the coach handing down the punishment.

 

[JJ Husker]

Let me ask you...You ever been in situation where you had to pay physically for someone else's mistake(s), i.e. do pushups, climb the mountain, bear crawls, crab walks, etc?

Well, I have.  And probably many others who have been in the military have as well.  I am here to tell you, nothing will turn a team (or platoon) against a fellow member faster than them being hammered with PT while the offender(s) watch.   

You can disagree with me, that is fine.  But I know what works in correcting mistakes in a group setting.  You punish the entire group and things just kinda sort themselves out.  

Ive been in that situation and I can pretty much assure you that it won’t work with college age football players in 2018, especially on a team that hasn’t had a taste of winning in about a year. You may like to think it’s just like the military but it isn’t.

If it’s a quick and easy fix and bad consequences are the answer, why don’t they just waterboard the offenders until they comply? Why, because it won’t work without causing other adverse and unintended consequences.  Of course that’s jmo just like your suggested cure is jyo.

Edit- Actually this is not just my opinion. I’ve seen this approach taken with high school aged athletes and it didn’t come close to achieving the desired result and pretty much destroyed the team. The better players who were being punished for what the slackers were doing very quickly adopted a don’t give a sh#t attitude and quit trying. The stupid coach floundered with what he had created for the remainder of the season, a few players quit (not the ones you would want to quit) and it was basically a sh#t sandwich. The dynamic in the military is different than in cfb or sports in general. Maybe it used to be closer to the same but I don’t believe it is today.

 

[Ric Flair]

Group punishment can be an effective way to bring a team together...the problem is it has an effect of uniting them against the coaches and uniting geoups of them versus each other. The idea we should be doing that to encourage the players to hold each other accountable by giving each other what amount to Code Reds is also problematic. There’s a reason universities no longer allow hazing. College kids are largely morons and if you allow them to discipline each other, someone is going to get hurt, raped, or killed.

Frost seems to have the right idea...building the team the right way. His method may take longer, but will leave us with a far more solid foundation.

 

[WyoHusker56]

Why would you "resent" your coaches?  Their job is to win football games.  As a player, I would hope your goal would be to want to win as well--and that you'll be willing to pay the price to do what it takes in order to win.

The military is not much different.  No matter how hard our drill instructors hammered us, no one ever resented them; because we all understood they had a job to do, and it was our job to learn the training that could potentially save our lives in combat.

Point is, in my opinion, hating or resenting your coaches/instructors for demanding excellence is pretty pathetic.  If you're a player on a college football team and you're not there to give your all to win, then leave and go do something else.  Don't be the anchor or dead weight dragging the yeam down.  

The team that was punished for mistakes never performed as well as the team that wasn't. My point is that style of coaching doesn't work for everyone.

 

[Making Chimichangas]

Everyone who has replied to me thus far, you make some good points...

I dunno, maybe I am too old and completely out of touch with how this new generation responds to adversity.  :dunno

 

[4skers89]

Ive been in that situation and I can pretty much assure you that it won’t work with college age football players in 2018, especially on a team that hasn’t had a taste of winning in about a year. You may like to think it’s just like the military but it isn’t.

If it’s a quick and easy fix and bad consequences are the answer, why don’t they just waterboard the offenders until they comply? Why, because it won’t work without causing other adverse and unintended consequences.  Of course that’s jmo just like your suggested cure is jyo.

Edit- Actually this is not just my opinion. I’ve seen this approach taken with high school aged athletes and it didn’t come close to achieving the desired result and pretty much destroyed the team. The better players who were being punished for what the slackers were doing very quickly adopted a don’t give a sh#t attitude and quit trying. The stupid coach floundered with what he had created for the remainder of the season, a few players quit (not the ones you would want to quit) and it was basically a sh#t sandwich. The dynamic in the military is different than in cfb or sports in general. Maybe it used to be closer to the same but I don’t believe it is today.

These tactics work in military boot camp because you are trying to get people that aren't committed to quit.

 

[Making Chimichangas]

These tactics work in military boot camp because you are trying to get people that aren't committed to quit.

I think that's the same goal as a college football team.  Either give your all or be gone.  I'll tell you what, I would love to know (and be on the inside) to see how Nick Saban runs Alabama.  My guess?  He's far closer to my methodology than not. 

No one forces you to play college football or college sports / join the military.  Young men and women join of their own accord.  Either do it to the level your coaches/instructors demand or be gone.  But before a person leaves, there is a mechanism to weed out the weak or non-committed.  

On a personal note, I do not, and will never, hold it against any player who leaves.  I would rather a player leave of his own accord than stay and become an anchor.  I don't know, maybe my upbringing, military experiences, and life in general have made me too much of a disciplinarian.  I just believe that if you're going to do something, give it your all.  If you fail, or fall short, no worries, as long as you know you tried your best.  And that is what bothers me about what I am seeing from Nebraska football on Saturdays...too many players are not even close to giving their best/all.

I have enjoyed this thread.

 

[4skers89]

I think that's the same goal as a college football team.  Either give your all or be gone.  I'll tell you what, I would love to know (and be on the inside) to see how Nick Saban runs Alabama.  My guess?  He's far closer to my methodology than not. 

No one forces you to play college football or college sports / join the military.  Young men and women join of their own accord.  Either do it to the level your coaches/instructors demand or be gone.  But before a person leaves, there is a mechanism to weed out the weak or non-committed.  

On a personal note, I do not, and will never, hold it against any player who leaves.  I would rather a player leave of his own accord than stay and become an anchor.  I don't know, maybe my upbringing, military experiences, and life in general have made me too much of a disciplinarian.  I just believe that if you're going to do something, give it your all.  If you fail, or fall short, no worries, as long as you know you tried your best.  And that is what bothers me about what I am seeing from Nebraska football on Saturdays...too many players are not even close to giving their best/all.

I have enjoyed this thread.

It works well for Saban because if one 4-5 star isn't working out another one is available.  Our lack of depth is a problem but I think Frost might be annoyed enough that he'll purge some of the misfits and try to rid the team of this loser mentality.  These guys aren't getting it done on the field anyway so might as well get the younger players out there.

 

[JJ Husker]

I think that's the same goal as a college football team.  Either give your all or be gone.  I'll tell you what, I would love to know (and be on the inside) to see how Nick Saban runs Alabama.  My guess?  He's far closer to my methodology than not. 

No one forces you to play college football or college sports / join the military.  Young men and women join of their own accord.  Either do it to the level your coaches/instructors demand or be gone.  But before a person leaves, there is a mechanism to weed out the weak or non-committed.  

On a personal note, I do not, and will never, hold it against any player who leaves.  I would rather a player leave of his own accord than stay and become an anchor.  I don't know, maybe my upbringing, military experiences, and life in general have made me too much of a disciplinarian.  I just believe that if you're going to do something, give it your all.  If you fail, or fall short, no worries, as long as you know you tried your best.  And that is what bothers me about what I am seeing from Nebraska football on Saturdays...too many players are not even close to giving their best/all.

I have enjoyed this thread.

I don't think the tactic you mentioned is totally without merit, I just don't think it would work at all with this team at this time. Bama couod get away with it because talent stockpiled 4 deep and it's an established winning tradition. It's a little different dynamic here with many guys who may be of a different mindset and desire and who haven't been developed in the environment Frost wants.

As an example the Unity council was a great thing in the 90's but we would be goofy to think it could work the way it did this year with this team. Some of these things are just going to take having the right kind of players in the right environment for a long enough period of time.  I think for now the best bet is to just take away playing time and starting positions from the repeat offenders. 

 

[Hayseed]

I have an idea to stop the penalties...

For every yard the team is penalized, the entire team does 100 yard bear crawls after practice.

Let me tell you something from my military days, NOTHING does more to stop bad habits or get screw ups to start doing s#!t right faster than punishing the entire team.  Because then, the over-whelming majority of players who aren't screwing up, get together and "blanket party" the offenders.  

Eating Bear Claws after practice is what got us in this position!

 

[In the Deed the Glory]

Some other coaches and I were having this discussion the other day.  This just does not work any longer with today's athletes.  They won't get the message.  They will come together, because they will all quit trying together.  It just doesn't work anymore.

 

[Ric Flair]

Some other coaches and I were having this discussion the other day.  This just does not work any longer with today's athletes.  They won't get the message.  They will come together, because they will all quit trying together.  It just doesn't work anymore.

And their parents will call to complain.

Plus, in the wake of the Maryland debacle, any coach who tries to use workouts to punish is going to be an even larger liability risk.

 

[In the Deed the Glory]

And their parents will call to complain.

Plus, in the wake of the Maryland debacle, any coach who tries to use workouts to punish is going to be an even larger liability risk.

Every f#&%ing time.

 

[Ric Flair]

Every f#&%ing time.

Not to get off topic, but some of my colleagues have had parents call or email to complain about their kids’ grades.

And a LinkedIn story from a while back said that around 10-15% of HR people who do interviews had experienced a recent college grad bringing one or both parents to a job interview. That just blew my mind.

Helicopter parenting is a huge problem.