Do we need top 5 classes to be successful?

huskerinacaveman said:
Just as the title says.  Do we need to have a top 5 class, or classes to achieve success. 

Success (for me) is defined by beating who we should, competing for wins against the top tier teams in the conference and being in a position to make playoff appearances. 

Does the system allow for top 20-25 classes to have this that sort of success?
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No. Consistent top 15 classes + the occasional top 10 class + development will get us there. 

 
There is a definite conflict between expectations of the fan base and the responses you see here. You have the majority of people saying "no" to the question of "do we need Top 5 classes" but the fan base by and large is still expecting national championships.

This class may not even crack the top 20. If we land somewhere between #20-#25 each season we might be able to consistently beat Wisconsin & Iowa provided that we've got a quarterback like Martinez at the helm. But when you then look at going up against Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State for the conference title game - who consistently recruits inside the top 15 - expectations will have a clash with reality.

 

 
Undone said:
There is a definite conflict between expectations of the fan base and the responses you see here. You have the majority of people saying "no" to the question of "do we need Top 5 classes" but the fan base by and large is still expecting national championships.

This class may not even crack the top 20. If we land somewhere between #20-#25 each season we might be able to consistently beat Wisconsin & Iowa provided that we've got a quarterback like Martinez at the helm. But when you then look at going up against Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State for the conference title game - who consistently recruits inside the top 15 - expectations will have a clash with reality.

 
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I don't think we need top 5 classes. Right around 12-15, and occasionally higher with the old Nebraska formula will do the trick:

1. Sign kids who want to work/meet character standards (staff is high on this), in order to turn 3/4* rated kids into 4/5* football players.

2. Develop/maintain culture of competition, accountability and brotherhood.

3. Out lift, out scheme, and out prepare the rest of the league.

These are things Frost is setting out to do,  exactly like T.O. did.  #1 is the reason we may not see consistent top 10 classes ever as they have a very specific type of player they want. Might not always be the highest rated.

 
What we need is more 4* and 5* recruits then 3* recruits, especially when we have a smaller class.  If you look back at some of our higher ranked classes we might take more players and that causes us to get ranked higher as a result.  

Overall, when we start hitting on 12-15 4* recruits in each class then we are in the trajectory of where I want us.  I think that is realistic and sustainable.  Don't believe we  ever be attractive for the 5* type guy consistently.  Additionally, when we truly develop players those 3* types will have more pan out and the walk-on program will produce year in and out as well.  

 
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runningblind said:
I don't think we need top 5 classes. Right around 12-15, and occasionally higher with the old Nebraska formula will do the trick:

1. Sign kids who want to work/meet character standards (staff is high on this), in order to turn 3/4* rated kids into 4/5* football players.

2. Develop/maintain culture of competition, accountability and brotherhood.

3. Out lift, out scheme, and out prepare the rest of the league.

These are things Frost is setting out to do,  exactly like T.O. did.  #1 is the reason we may not see consistent top 10 classes ever as they have a very specific type of player they want. Might not always be the highest rated.
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I'm in the 12 - 15 camp combined with the players needed in each role.  I think we have had some classes ranked ok in recent years but team needs were not met  so the net result was not good.

 
Depends.  I feel like we will see improvements year by year both on the field and in recruiting. If we see improvement in recruiting where by year 3 or 4 our recruiting is closer to PSU, OSU and Michigan than Purdue and Wisconsin..... Yeah we might be able to compete at that level by year 5-6

 
melscott62 said:
Depends.  I feel like we will see improvements year by year both on the field and in recruiting. If we see improvement in recruiting where by year 3 or 4 our recruiting is closer to PSU, OSU and Michigan than Purdue and Wisconsin..... Yeah we might be able to compete at that level by year 5-6
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By the numbers on average it already probably has been consistently closer to PSU/OSU/Michigan than to Purdue/Wisconsin. 

 
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Undone said:
If the facts of Purdue & Wisconsin's average recruiting rankings over roughly the last 5ish seasons aren't relevant in terms of the point you thought you 
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I guess I needed to elaborate on my position so that everyone can clearly understand what I'm trying to say.  Would say we are situated somewhere in between the other Big Ten West teams and the elite schools in the Big Ten. Granted we might be ever so slightly closer to the elite schools then the rest of the Big Ten West, but I don't think anybody who is watching our games with argue the fact that we need to be much closer to the elite schools and further away from the Big Ten West. That was all that I was saying. I would also argue that bringing up recruiting stats from schools that have drastically changed their coaching staff is not the most relevant information.

 
Landlord said:
This is besides the point. Just because some teams with top talent don't do well doesn't mean that you don't still NEED top talent to achieve at the highest level.

Anyways, your report on Fisher's FSU is overblown as well. He won three conference crowns, won his division a 4th time, won a national championship, made it to the playoffs, and had four top 10 finishes out of his 7 years. They certainly underachieved some but Fisher had a very nice run at FSU.
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This is an age old argument that has been rehashed every couple of blue moons.

Nebraska proved you could dominate higher rated recruit teams with walk ons in the 90s.

This side of the 21st century every team has the strength and conditioning edge that Nebraska once pioneered.

Just because there isn't an example of a team doing it now doesn't mean it can't be done.

 
All of this assumes that the recruiting rankings are in fact accurate representations of the quality of the players being rated.   This is harder to say for certain.   For example, if a given player Frost recruited is rated a low/medium 3 star but turns out to be a high 4 or even 5 star player thereafter, then the rating of the entire class is wrong.  I'm not sure how much difference a low 3 star being rated as a high 4 star would have made in the overall class ranking but it may be more than one might expect.   In the bulk of the Osborne era, I doubt he had many recruiting classes that would have been 'top 5' rated because we often took guys who were hardly even considered or 'rated' at all by some of the 'experts'.   O linemen were often local Neb guys who played Class B or even C competition, etc.   Milt Tenopir 'built' many of our linemen from farm boys with little or no national noterieity at all.   We recruited a whole bunch of Omaha RBs who were often mentioned amongst national recruiting analysis as very good but would not have been 'elite'.   We rarely recruiting a highly regarded WR as we didn't plan to throw the ball enough to even be attractive for most of those players.   Irving Fryar was a 'local' diamond in the rough presumably.   We didn't recruit QB s that most other top rated teams would even consider as we wanted a great athlete to play QB, not necessarily a high school QB star.   

Frost needs to focus heavily on recruiting the best defensive players (strongest, fastest, most aggressive, toughest, etc) nationally and then once he has a full allotment of defenders, he can then turn to recruiting for his offense.   I am not sure he has done that in the past but this class suggests he may be moving in this direction.  We have to be able to slow people down and win low scoring games when the Big Ten bad weather arrives each fall.   Rain storms, high winds, snow, bitter cold, etc are simply NOT good for the offenses built around passing. 

We need to build a team with classes ranked in the top 10 to win the Big Ten and then we won't be a consistant conference champ.  To win the Big Ten half the time, we'll need top 7 average classes with extra care to keep filling those most critical positions wo we can build a two deep with 4 star average talent across the board.   We'll need another 30 or so 4 star players spread around the roster displacing the 2 star and lessers and backed up by solid 3 star guys.   The walk on program will never be what it once was because college is a very expensive proposition for nearly everybody and very few families can afford to simply turn down $150,000 in financial aid in order to be a Husker, no matter how red their Husker blood may be.

This year's class, assuming Frost can add another 6 - 3.5 to 4.2 star average players in the critical spots,  will be around top 14.   That is a big jump in the right direction and will enable the program to win more.  Win more and we'll have even better luck and can reasonably hope for a top ten class next year.   Still a ways to go but if this happens, we will be on our way back to where we all want to be in about 5 years.        

 
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