Get with The Program

[Guy Chamberlin]

Welcome, Critical Fan.

 

[NoLongerN]

You mean in the one hour since you created your new account? Tell me more...

Enjoyed this post!

As one who was reading this forum a couple of years before I joined ... I can understand if one has been reading for a while before they become a member ... that's all good.

I do wonder what folks would say if I browsed their worlds for a few months or years and when I decided to speak, I said, "Hi, I'm CriticalSpirit."  

If you want to be received well then don't presume you know the board all that well ... because you don't.  In exchange, you will probably get more acceptance to genuine criticism (your opinion) you may like to share.

And by the way, welcome to the board.  Hope you will give our new coach the contract years promised to prove his plan.  I have more issues with the "greatest fans on earth" than this direction of the Husker football program.

 

[Mierin]

We will have to agree to disagree on whether or not people believe that all NU has to do is "work harder" or be more "team oriented", I see too much evidence of this in the forum and in those I talk to on a day to day basis. 

No one believes that.

 

[CriticalFan]

No one believes that.

I would say that most if not all of the "changing the culture" argument in favor of Scott Frost is based, if you drill down far enough, to working harder or making players more team oriented.  What else are you supposed to gain from "The Program", or in the words of Erik Chinander :

" “The ‘care factor’ is high right now — about each other and about the program. Scott does an unbelievable job. And I think what makes him the best is the culture piece of this whole thing.”

I think there are some people who think Scott Frost brings great coaching ability and skill to his position.  I also believe there are others that believe all he had to do was "change the culture".  You heard it on the radio when he was hired (especially in reference to how the culture had deteriorated under Reilly), and particularly in regards to former players, here is what Matt Davison had to say:

“I don’t think character was something that was looked at enough. I don’t think fit in Nebraska was looked at enough,” Davison said.
Frost’s staff is placing an emphasis on character on the recruiting trail, Davison said. If they like a kid’s film, but not the kid, they won’t offer. They don’t just watch the highlight film, they watch entire games of recruits. They want guys who compete every play, Davison said.
Other problems that added to the culture the past few years, according to Davison, were issues in the weight program and overall accountability.
“We need better players and we need guys that are willing to go do things that we ask them to do,” Davison said.


 
When Davison looks at the team right now, he sees guys who want to win. Guys who had no fun a year ago and want to get better. But the culture needs work.
Jason Peter on Mike Riley and what  Frost had to fix "An undisciplined, player-coddling culture "



When Davison looks at the team right now, he sees guys who want to win. Guys who had no fun a year ago and want to get better. But the culture needs work.

You are really telling me that no one believes that all Scott Frost had to do was come to Nebraska and change the culture (instilling hard work and team first attitude)?

Or if you have a different definition of culture, what is it?

 

[Husker in WI]

You are really telling me that no one believes that all Scott Frost had to do was come to Nebraska and change the culture (instilling hard work and team first attitude)?

Or if you have a different definition of culture, what is it?

You're cherry-picking the comments about culture. The culture did need to change, and so did the scheme and the players. There are also plenty of comments talking about the improvements in recruiting and running a cutting-edge offense. The off-season is for hype, and right now the stories are the culture/team building ones. When we get to camp they'll shift to more recruiting (look at these new guys!) and development (Player X has completely changed his body, Y is a step and half faster), and at the end of the day all that matters is how they play. But trying to limit the excitement even to reasonable levels is a losing battle.

 

[Mierin]

I would say that most if not all of the "changing the culture" argument in favor of Scott Frost is based, if you drill down far enough, to working harder or making players more team oriented.  What else are you supposed to gain from "The Program", or in the words of Erik Chinander :

" “The ‘care factor’ is high right now — about each other and about the program. Scott does an unbelievable job. And I think what makes him the best is the culture piece of this whole thing.”

I think there are some people who think Scott Frost brings great coaching ability and skill to his position.  I also believe there are others that believe all he had to do was "change the culture".  You heard it on the radio when he was hired (especially in reference to how the culture had deteriorated under Reilly), and particularly in regards to former players, here is what Matt Davison had to say:

“I don’t think character was something that was looked at enough. I don’t think fit in Nebraska was looked at enough,” Davison said.
Frost’s staff is placing an emphasis on character on the recruiting trail, Davison said. If they like a kid’s film, but not the kid, they won’t offer. They don’t just watch the highlight film, they watch entire games of recruits. They want guys who compete every play, Davison said.
Other problems that added to the culture the past few years, according to Davison, were issues in the weight program and overall accountability.
“We need better players and we need guys that are willing to go do things that we ask them to do,” Davison said.


 
When Davison looks at the team right now, he sees guys who want to win. Guys who had no fun a year ago and want to get better. But the culture needs work.
Jason Peter on Mike Riley and what  Frost had to fix "An undisciplined, player-coddling culture "



When Davison looks at the team right now, he sees guys who want to win. Guys who had no fun a year ago and want to get better. But the culture needs work.

You are really telling me that no one believes that all Scott Frost had to do was come to Nebraska and change the culture (instilling hard work and team first attitude)?

Or if you have a different definition of culture, what is it?

Yes. No one believes that, and you haven’t provided evidence that says otherwise.

Thinking hard work/culture is an important factor is miles away from thinking that’s the only change necessary.

 

[theknife]

5 hours ago, CriticalFan said:

"The Program" and routines like it are commonplace in college football and have never been shown to be effective.  I don't post this to be a downer, but I just can't stand all the sunshine pumping.  People seems to think all Nebraska has to do is "work harder", and "be 100% committed and team-oriented" and we will win championships.  The idea that treating football like a military exercise is a good tactic, to either win football games, or build team spirit, has been debunked over and over again, from Paul Bear Bryant at Texas A&M, through to the modern medical understanding of sports injuries and psychology.

Ohio Bobcats 2014 after Navy Seal Training: 6-6 record

Northwestern Wildcats 2014 after Navy Seal Training: 5-7 record

Arizona Football 2016 after Navy Seal Training: 3-9 record

You could go on and on and on and on and on.  You could also find great teams that go through Navy Seal Training in the pre-season and do great in the regular season.  Because those teams are already good.

 https://www.amazon.com/How-We-Can-Save-Sports/dp/1442242647

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/preseason-military-style-training-becoming-commonplace-in-college-basketball-other-sports (2013)

UCF 2017: 13-0, lmao. 

 

[Scarlet Overkill]

Wrong thread

 

[Ulty]

I think I get what @CriticalFanis getting at, but strawman arguments and a negative attitude are not a good play here. What might be intended to be "critical" or "realistic" just comes off as pissy. 

New members and new perspectives are wonderful, but when you show up to a party and introduce yourself, you should smile and shake hands, try to make some effort to be likable. Just a thought. 

And +1 to @Scarlet Overkill for posting Faith No More!

 

[Scarlet Overkill]

I think I get what @CriticalFanis getting at, but strawman arguments and a negative attitude are not a good play here. What might be intended to be "critical" or "realistic" just comes off as pissy. 

New members and new perspectives are wonderful, but when you show up to a party and introduce yourself, you should smile and shake hands, try to make some effort to be likable. Just a thought. 

And +1 to @Scarlet Overkill for posting Faith No More!

Ha - I accidentally posted that here, when I meant to post in the thread about caring.     glad someone could appreciate it.

 

[WyoHusker56]

People seems to think all Nebraska has to do is "work harder", and "be 100% committed and team-oriented" and we will win championships.

So, when Frost turned things around at UCF what did he do besides change the culture? It seems like getting those kids to "buy in" and "work harder" was a large portion of the success they saw. 

 

[Husker in WI]

So, when Frost turned things around at UCF what did he do besides change the culture? It seems like getting those kids to "buy in" and "work harder" was a large portion of the success they saw. 

A huge chunk was culture, but they probably had more talent relative to their conference than we did. And you can't really ignore a few key recruits making huge impacts, like Killins and obviously Milton. A culture change is necessary but not sufficient to turn most programs around.

 

[WyoHusker56]

A huge chunk was culture, but they probably had more talent relative to their conference than we did. And you can't really ignore a few key recruits making huge impacts, like Killins and obviously Milton. A culture change is necessary but not sufficient to turn most programs around.

I don't disagree that they probably had more talent. However, I think Frost has made huge strides to close that gap and has developed some kids too. Martinez and Washington are key recruits like you mentioned. Plus possibly more incoming guys this year. OP seems to be suggesting people shouldn't be so excited about this year because "working harder" won't be enough. In my opinion Frost has largely followed the same blueprint here as he did at UCF and the buying in piece might be all that is standing between this team and a very successful year by recent standards.

 

[GSG]

[No message]

 

[cheekygeek]

EDIT: Now I see it was already posted. (Athletic article in post above). Good read!