Defense Struggles

SFW said:
Jim Leonard disagrees 
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Are you claiming that Jim Leonhard inherited a similar level of talent to what Chinander got? Wisconsin definitely had a few question marks, but he got a team full of guys recruited for a 3-4 and developed well. He took over a D that was 1st and 4th in points allowed prior to his promotion - to his credit he's kept them there, but that's not even close to a valid comparison.

 
SFW said:
What?

3 years of top D coordination
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There is no doubt Leonhard has been very good. I still want to clarify though - you're comparing a situation where a guy took over a team with the 1st/4th ranked defense and the rest of the staff intact, to a guy who is taking over the 33rd/116th ranked defense amidst an entire staff overhaul? Plus factor in recruiting/lack of player turnover. Is Chins running a top ten defense if he's at Wisconsin? Maybe not. But Lenohard wouldn't be running one here (yet).

 
TheSker said:
A "top tier" defensive coordinator would look at our talent level and say no thanks.

They know that whatever the scheme, Jimmie and Joe make it work.
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So....the really great coaches wait for top tier talent to be set in place, so they can avoid the pesky coaching headaches that coaches are typically hired to address. Lovely.  

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
So....the really great coaches wait for top tier talent to be set in place, so they can avoid the pesky coaching headaches that coaches are typically hired to address. Lovely.  
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Well they have to prove themselves somewhere, but do you think Aranda went to LSU because it was more of a challenge? I don't think many guys want to truly build a defense from the ground up, they want to take great talent and mold it.

I'd have to look into it more, but I suspect the more common 'top tier' DC path is position coach on a good defense > Coordinator on a good defense > Coordinator at an elite school as opposed to making the position coach > DC leap at a school with a terrible defense. I don't have anything beyond anecdotal evidence though, so who knows. And I do believe great coaches can get results anywhere, but it's going to take longer.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
So....the really great coaches wait for top tier talent to be set in place, so they can avoid the pesky coaching headaches that coaches are typically hired to address. Lovely.  
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They don't necessarily wait for it to be set in place.  But they know it's available.

There are exceptions to the rule, obviously.......but is an Urban Meyer or Dabo Sweeney or Nick Saban or insert top coaching name going to take a job at Illinois or Minnesota or even Nebraska?

 
Nebraska's defense under Callahan/Cosgrove was abysmal in 2007. 115 out of 120 scoring defense in the NCAA. 

Under Pelini/Pelini, the same talent was immediately better in 2008, and downright legendary in 2009. 

Three years later, Nebraska was heading back to Cosgrovian levels. 

 
TheSker said:
They don't necessarily wait for it to be set in place.  But they know it's available.

There are exceptions to the rule, obviously.......but is an Urban Meyer or Dabo Sweeney or Nick Saban or insert top coaching name going to take a job at Illinois or Minnesota or even Nebraska?
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Do you think chin is a good coach or is it that Nebraska can't do better than him? Alex grinch was a db coach before he was hired at Washington State and there defense was terrible and he turned it into one of tye best in the country. I never expected this defense to be great in only two years but just because 100% of the roster doesn't fit exactly what you want to do and you have a offense that makes it so the defense is on the field a lot doesnt automatically mean there can't be improvements.

 
TheSker said:
They don't necessarily wait for it to be set in place.  But they know it's available.

There are exceptions to the rule, obviously.......but is an Urban Meyer or Dabo Sweeney or Nick Saban or insert top coaching name going to take a job at Illinois or Minnesota or even Nebraska?
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No. Urban Meyer takes the job at Utah. Nick Saban takes the job at Toledo and Michigan State. James Franklin takes the job at Vanderbilt. Jim Harbaugh takes the University of San Diego job, then take over a famously talent-starved Stanford team. Paul Chyrst manages to be a .500 coach at Pittsburgh before Wisconsin offers him the HC job. PJ Fleck takes the Western Michigan job, then moves to Minnesota to oversee talent considered on par or less than Nebraskas. Bill Snyder takes the job at one of the least successful schools in NCAA history. Les Miles accepts the challenge at Kansas. 

In other words, good coaches typically prove themselves at schools that need a lot of help, take the talent they're given, and move up in the world when football watchers recognize their ability to get more out of even marginal talent. That's what the job is all about. 

 
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