Minnesota may be a model for us

BoNeyard said:
As annoying as he can be, PJ Fleck has done a marvelous job at Minnesota, and the guy is actually a really good coach and motivator. Looking at what he has done at Minnesota and the culture he has built, it could be a little of what we could become in the near future. Fleck didn't inherit that bad of a roster when he arrived in Minnesota, Jerry Kill and Claeys had started building the Gophers into decent and respectable competition before Fleck. But Fleck arrived and he started to insert his culture and trying to elevate the Minnesota program from what Kill and Claeys had build.

Now, in his first two years of trying to install that culture and build what he wanted he didn't have that great of years. 5-7 and 7-6, but again he didn't inherit that bad of a roster and he had some B1G size already on that roster. Now here he is in year 3 and his DNA seems very much all over that team and program and it's paying off to an 8-0 start. Fleck is very "loud" at what he does and he has a ton of energy and yet it's even taken him 3 years to fully put his culture and DNA in place at a program that didn't really have any positive culture since the 1960's. Point is, even someone who is really really good at motivating and wears his culture on his sleeve and implements that wherever he goes, still took him at least 3 years to get things to stick at a place that isn't use to a ton of winning.

It's still early, but Minnesota seems to be holding their own against #4 Penn State. While watching the Gophers I can't help but think they are going to be contenders in the West for quiet some time, as long as Fleck is there anyways. They are still trending up and they are built with size in the trenches and speed in the skill positions. It's easy to see Fleck has structured the Gophers pretty well, but again he inherited some of that structure when he arrived at Minnesota thanks to Kill and Claeys.

It just goes to show how much effort and how long it can take to actually get things going. Frost is having to not only change the culture and put his DNA into the current program, but he is having to build up the roster to fit the B1G.  
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Folks around here won't get the P.J. Fleck Model of doing things.  Namely because they don't want to make the tough decision and pull the trigger.

You know, the same way that P.J. Fleck did in his 2nd year of coaching the Minnesota Gophers football team?

http://www.startribune.com/p-j-fleck-can-t-afford-another-whiff-on-his-second-hire-for-gophers-defensive-coordinator/499742891/?refresh=true

Ironically, he gave that 430 yards and 55 points up to a Scott Frost coached team.  Said, "I don't like that feeling.  I'm gonna do something about it," and he FIRED HIS DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.

One year later, Minnesota D:

  • 15th ranked Total Defense
  • 26th ranked Scoring Defense
  • Tied at 23rd in the country in takeaways
  • 2nd in the country in interceptions
  • Tied at 28th with Florida on First down Defense efficiency



And how's that paying off for the guy right now? 

 
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alexhortdog95 said:
Folks around here won't get the P.J. Fleck Model of doing things.  Namely because they don't want to make the tough decision and pull the trigger.

You know, the same way that P.J. Fleck did in his 2nd year of coaching the Minnesota Gophers football team?

http://www.startribune.com/p-j-fleck-can-t-afford-another-whiff-on-his-second-hire-for-gophers-defensive-coordinator/499742891/?refresh=true

Ironically, he gave that 430 yards and 55 points up to a Scott Frost coached team.  Said, "I don't like that feeling.  I'm gonna do something about it," and he FIRED HIS DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.
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We might as well fire frost now

 
alexhortdog95 said:
And here we go with "FIRE FROST."

Never said that, but if you can't admit that there are some painful decisions that he needs to make.....
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Well he isn't gonna fire Chinander, the guy who has improved our defense both years he has been here, so we might as well fire him right? I mean if he isn't willing to make the tough decisions its not gonna work out is it?

 
The old Minnesota DC took over a top-25 defense and turned them into one that was giving up 50+ points per game. Chinander took over a dumpster fire and has turned it into more of a trash can fire. You can have the opinion that Chinander isn't good and should be fired, but people need to stop claiming it's exactly the same as Minnesota.

 
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Nebfanatic said:
Well he isn't gonna fire Chinander, the guy who has improved our defense both years he has been here, so we might as well fire him right? I mean if he isn't willing to make the tough decisions its not gonna work out is it?
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What if he DOES fire Chinander?  What will your argument be then?

I mean, for all those clamoring to have him replaced - there's proof of why that should happen.

Give me proof of why he should remain in his job now.

 
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alexhortdog95 said:
What if he DOES fire Chinander?  What will your argument be then?
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You are funny. I won't have an argument to make but you are avoiding the question. No one is getting fired for on field performance after this season so I ask again, should we just fire Frost now? Because if we don't Chinander will be our DC in 2020. You can have your opinion all you like but I will put 1000 dollars on Chinander not getting fired due to on field performance. It would be pretty stupid to fire someone who has made your defense better and on top of that Frost came here because he was promised time for him and his staff.

 
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alexhortdog95 said:
What if he DOES fire Chinander?  What will your argument be then?

I mean, for all those clamoring to have him replaced - there's proof of why that should happen.

Give me proof of why he should remain in his job now.
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Because the defense has measurably improved his 2 years here? There's no "proof" either way. If the defense gets worse, Frost will eventually fire Chinander. It has gotten better (slower than anyone would like), and Chinander probably gets 3 years even if it stays the same. He's not untouchable, but as long as the defense isn't actively getting worse Chins will be at least through here next year. You don't have to agree with that decision, but they've talked about staff continuity and believing in them completely too much to turn around and fire someone for not turning it around fast enough.

 
alexhortdog95 said:
What if he DOES fire Chinander?  What will your argument be then?

I mean, for all those clamoring to have him replaced - there's proof of why that should happen.

Give me proof of why he should remain in his job now.
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He has improved the defense a total of 48 spots nationally since he has been here? We have gotten better in every defensive category since he has arrived? What more is he supposed to do?

 
Husker in WI said:
Because the defense has measurably improved his 2 years here? There's no "proof" either way. If the defense gets worse, Frost will eventually fire Chinander. It has gotten better (slower than anyone would like), and Chinander probably gets 3 years even if it stays the same. He's not untouchable, but as long as the defense isn't actively getting worse Chins will be at least through here next year. You don't have to agree with that decision, but they've talked about staff continuity and believing in them completely too much to turn around and fire someone for not turning it around fast enough.
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HOW has the defense improved?  Help me out, cause when I look at the scoreboard, I'm not seeing it.

 
Nebfanatic said:
You are funny. I won't have an argument to make but you are avoiding the question. No one is getting fired for on field performance after this season so I ask again, should we just fire Frost now? Because if we don't Chinander will be our DC in 2020. You can have your opinion all you like but I will put 1000 dollars on Chinander not getting fired due to on field performance. It would be pretty stupid to fire someone who has made your defense better and on top of that Frost came here because he was promised time for him and his staff.
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I'm not re-litigating Frost's presence in Lincoln.  I'm plainly on the record saying that Frost should be here.

 
alexhortdog95 said:
HOW has the defense improved?  Help me out, cause when I look at the scoreboard, I'm not seeing it.
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I about have these memorized because people love to ignore facts that don't support their claims.

2017 (pre-Chinander): 36.4 ppg (116th)

2018: 31.3 ppg (88th)

2019 (so far): 29.1 ppg (79th)

Again, not as fast as we want but still improving. And given the injuries and lack of depth this year, I'm betting on a bigger improvement next year.

The example people keep bring up is Minnesota. They went from:

2016 (pre-Robb Smith): 22.1 ppg (22nd)

2017: 22.8 (36th) - not bad yet!

2018 (before he was fired): 31.8 (92nd)

If you can explain to me why you think giving up 9 points more per game and dropping 70 ranks is the same as giving up 7 less per game and rising 37 ranks, I will agree we should fire Chinander.

 
alexhortdog95 said:
HOW has the defense improved?  Help me out, cause when I look at the scoreboard, I'm not seeing it.
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I don’t get that either. I guess maybe in a couple national statistical categories we have improved a couple spots. But man 33 points per game in conf play - that’s including our game against one of the worst P5 offenses of all time. 38 points per game against conf teams with a pulse. If your defensive is giving up 33+ points a game in conf play, you’re not gonna sniff the top of your division. 

 
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