The Right-Wing Disinformation Machine

[RedDenver]

Everyone making some moral choice not to vote for Biden can rest comfortably with the knowledge that they helped elect Trump for  four more years. This kind of behavior is on them as much as any ardent Trump supporter.

Everyone making some moral choice to blame voters instead of appealing to them can rest comfortably with the knowledge that they helped elect Trump for  four more years. This kind of behavior is on them as much as any ardent Trump supporter.

 

[knapplc]

Everyone making some moral choice to blame voters instead of appealing to them can rest comfortably with the knowledge that they helped elect Trump for  four more years. This kind of behavior is on them as much as any ardent Trump supporter.

I'm sure this seemed clever at the time, but it makes no sense.

 

[RedDenver]

I'm sure this seemed clever at the time, but it makes no sense.

It's as logical as the post it was based on.

 

[knapplc]

It's as logical as the post it was based on.

It isn't. Stop trying too hard.

 

[knapplc]

He's telling the truth.  What you posted is a known logical fallacy.

It isn't. We saw the results in 2016. Just stop.

You know what's funny?  I started this election cycle with more than a fair bit of liking for Bernie. But interactions with his supporters have really turned me off.  For all the sanctimonious talk of "Biden needs to court us" his supporters really, really need to look in a mirror when it comes to interacting with other people on their side of the belief spectrum.

 

[RedDenver]

It isn't. We saw the results in 2016. Just stop.

It is. Go back and count up all the eligible voters that didn't vote for Hillary and instead give their votes to Trump as that's how you've suggested they should be counted. Trump would win every single state. Your argument doesn't stand up to simple math.

You know what's funny?  I started this election cycle with more than a fair bit of liking for Bernie. But interactions with his supporters have really turned me off.  For all the sanctimonious talk of "Biden needs to court us" his supporters really, really need to look in a mirror when it comes to interacting with other people on their side of the belief spectrum.

Is this the point where I claim that you're supporting Trump and helping him win because you don't support Bernie as much as I do?

 

[knapplc]

It is. Go back and count up all the eligible voters that didn't vote for Hillary and instead give their votes to Trump as that's how you've suggested they should be counted. Trump would win every single state. Your argument doesn't stand up to simple math.

Is this the point where I claim that you're supporting Trump and helping him win because you don't support Bernie as much as I do?

You can claim whatever you want. I'm done talking Bernie with you. He's a failed candidate and the more his supporters trash Biden the less appealing Bernie or any of his supporters look.

 

[knapplc]

It is.  And you didn't.  You're simplifying an election down into a narrative (2016 is Bernies fault!!!!) that cannot be proven true, has plenty of evidence contrary, and then you're trying to shame people into seeing things your way.

What you've said is that a vote for a third party candidate will help the least desirable candidate become elected over the less desirable (but more probable) candidate.

That's logically unsound and wrong.

Essentially, you're saying "You’re wasting your vote" which completely ignores and denigrates the principles and convictions that other people prioritize more highly than you do when voting.  I'd ask you to just pay attention to yourself...don't try to bully your opinion onto others for voting their conscience.

Honestly, if you can become less supportive of a candidate and his/her platform just based on their followers, you're doing it wrong and you might want to take a step back and ask yourself how you let your decisions become influenced that way.

You continue to show that you completely misunderstand what I've been saying.

 

[knapplc]

Nice rebuttable there Knapp. 

Instead of addressing what I said, you decide to imply that I'm too stupid to understand you.

"Misunderstood" does not mean "too stupid."  It's these kind of off-putting strawmen that makes it so difficult to have a conversation with you.

 

[RedDenver]

You can claim whatever you want. I'm done talking Bernie with you. He's a failed candidate and the more his supporters trash Biden the less appealing Bernie or any of his supporters look.

Nice attempt at moving the goalposts since I'm not even talking about Bernie or Biden. I'm pointing out the flaws in your argument that not voting for Biden (or literally insert any candidate in place of Biden including Bernie) is the same as voting for Trump.

And if you find Bernie supporters trashing Biden off-putting, maybe think about how that applies to your own trashing of anyone not voting for Biden.

 

[Redux]

All Biden has to do is give a few reasons to vote for him.  Thus far, none.  The campaign of "I was Obama's VP" only gets you so far.  At least Al Gore promoted himself as a crazy person.  I find it utterly sad Biden and the Dems have to rely on people on social media preaching that unless they vote Biden out of Default they are voting for Trump.

 

[BigRedBuster]

It isn't. We saw the results in 2016. Just stop.

You know what's funny?  I started this election cycle with more than a fair bit of liking for Bernie. But interactions with his supporters have really turned me off.  For all the sanctimonious talk of "Biden needs to court us" his supporters really, really need to look in a mirror when it comes to interacting with other people on their side of the belief spectrum.

Two things are true.

a)  If Bernie supporters don't vote for Biden, chances are Trump wins another 4 years.

b)  This does not eliminate the need for Biden to prove why they should support him.

I can turn your argument around on you for 2016.  A heck of a lot of people blindly voted for Trump because they refused to want Hillary as President.  They didn't look closely at the type of person Trump was...all they knew is that they didn't want Hillary, so anyone is better than that.  Heck, I still have people say....well, at least we don't have Hillary.

Well.....here we are.

Your view that someone demanding Biden convince them to vote for him is some how lazy or passive is one of the oddest things I've ever seen you say on here.

 

[knapplc]

Your view that someone demanding Biden convince them to vote for him is some how lazy or passive is one of the oddest things I've ever seen you say on here.

I've explained it, but people don't want to hear it.

I've said that this stance is true for only this election. This is an election unlike any other in our lifetimes. As rapidly as Trump is tearing down oversight and the basic structures of government, if we allow him another four years we'll have irreparable harm come 2024.

With that being the case, Biden could be a sack of moldy potatoes and it wouldn't matter - the responsible thing to do would be to vote for him.  Any other vote is irresponsible, and more likely to contribute to another four years of Trump, which would be a disaster.

In any other election, yes, the candidate who wants my vote should express why. Duh, that's the job of a candidate. This election is unique because of Trump.  We've had four years to see who/what he is. Because of Trump's last four years, Biden's burden is lesser.

Of course, duh, ideally he should (and will) be courting votes.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I've explained it, but people don't want to hear it.

That also typically is said about someone who is saying something, that everyone understands, but doesn't agree with.  That doesn't mean they "don't wan to hear it" or that you are right.

I've said that this stance is true for only this election. This is an election unlike any other in our lifetimes. As rapidly as Trump is tearing down oversight and the basic structures of government, if we allow him another four years we'll have irreparable harm come 2024.

Change "Trump" to "Hillary" and you have what a heck of a lot of people were saying 4 years ago.

In any other election, yes, the candidate who wants my vote should express why. Duh, that's the job of a candidate. This election is unique because of Trump.  We've had four years to see who/what he is. Because of Trump's last four years, Biden's burden is lesser.

How about this?  I agree with you that everyone should vote for Biden so we don't have Trump.  That still doesn't eliminate the need for Biden to be out convincing every single person of that just to make sure he wins in a landslide and not just by squeaking by...or god forbid, loses.

I will be voting for him.  But, he still needs to be helping convince everyone else.

But, someone saying they need to hear more....isn't being lazy or passive.

 

[RedDenver]

I've explained it, but people don't want to hear it.

Or people hear you and disagree with your argument.

I've said that this stance is true for only this election. This is an election unlike any other in our lifetimes. As rapidly as Trump is tearing down oversight and the basic structures of government, if we allow him another four years we'll have irreparable harm come 2024.

With that being the case, Biden could be a sack of moldy potatoes and it wouldn't matter - the responsible thing to do would be to vote for him.  Any other vote is irresponsible, and more likely to contribute to another four years of Trump, which would be a disaster.

In any other election, yes, the candidate who wants my vote should express why. Duh, that's the job of a candidate. This election is unique because of Trump.  We've had four years to see who/what he is. Because of Trump's last four years, Biden's burden is lesser.

Of course, duh, ideally he should (and will) be courting votes.

The responsible thing to do would be NOT NOMINATE the sack of moldy potatoes!! Because if the moldy sack of potatoes gets the nomination, it's going to be much, much more difficult to defeat Trump.

And you're simply ignoring that there are going to be voters for whom the default vote of moldy potatoes isn't enough to get them to come out and vote. They just don't dislike Trump as much as you want them to. They need to be convinced to both vote and vote for moldy potatoes.