Gun Control

DefenderAO said:
The US has a moral decay and cultural issue where certain types of violence is almost celebrated (get and maintain respect, or whatever) within these areas. 
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You keep saying our country is in moral decay. Then you keep saying that that moral decay is a result of relativistic mob rule of democracies. Then you keep saying our country isn't a democracy but is a Constitutional Republic that doesn't allow the moral decay of mob rule.

You're chasing your own tail trying to put together a coherent narrative.

DefenderAO said:
I can hold two positions at once.  Ache for the families of this horrific tragedy and also listen to my grandmother in-laws stories of her family's encampment and slaughter..
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Careful, you're starting to sound a bit pluralistic.

 
Also, to note, although it seems I'm the contrarian on many points I do appreciate the general sense of civility.  These are difficult, emotional topics that aren't started or contained solely here...good to see each other's views and change/strengthen our own through them being leaned on.

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
You're trying to claim that mental illness or bad intentions leave the US with disproportionate death rates by guns. Higher gun ownership leads to more gun deaths you say. 

While simultaneously confessing that gun ownership is therefore bad and in need of regulation - which I'm assuming your voting behavior does not do - this argument is bad.

Consider intentional homicide rates (per the United Nations):

US - 6.5 (per 100k)

Filthy Progressive Countries poisoning the minds of Children:

Denmark - 1.0

UK - 1.1

Finland - 1.6

Canada - 2.0

Germany - 0.8

France - 1.3

Sweden - 1.2

Children being taken to drag shows is such a small issue that is stupid and disingenuous to bring it up. Was this a concern of yours in say 2018 before Fox News made it a culture war talking point? No, because it's not a problem. It's so far from being a problem relevant to mass shootings that it strikes me as delusional to think it's related whatsoever.

A mentally deranged person had easy access to a gun, full stop. No different than when a straight white kid commits the same acts of violence. 
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QFT

 
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Lorewarn said:
You keep saying our country is in moral decay. Then you keep saying that that moral decay is a result of relativistic mob rule of democracies. Then you keep saying our country isn't a democracy but is a Constitutional Republic that doesn't allow the moral decay of mob rule.

You're chasing your own tail trying to put together a coherent narrative.

Careful, you're starting to sound a bit pluralistic.
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The country is in a moral free fall, yes.  It's due to a broken human, individual condition.  When these broken conditions become a mob, it operates as a democracy though, by definition (not how it currently looks) we're a Constitutional Republic.  Because we're defined as such does not mean we're actualizing it as intended.  

Holding those two points is sympathy, not pluralism.  Had my children been victims in that school, or I had been encamped watching others thrown into ovens, I could say empathy.  I'm grateful I cannot go to empathy for those tragic events.

 
Lorewarn said:
You keep saying our country is in moral decay. Then you keep saying that that moral decay is a result of relativistic mob rule of democracies. Then you keep saying our country isn't a democracy but is a Constitutional Republic that doesn't allow the moral decay of mob rule.

You're chasing your own tail trying to put together a coherent narrative.

Careful, you're starting to sound a bit pluralistic.
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Not to mention his argument that progressive filth leads to this moral decay and presumably our epidemic of violence, but he can't respond to why European hellholes have 600% less violent crime.

Or heck, if you exclude liberal states and only compare puritan Conservative utopia's to Progressives European Children Indoctrination Machines, those violent crime statistics become even MORE disproportionate. 

In addition to this, his reasoning of the existence of the 2A, which in typical conservative fashion is completely undermined by a simple look at the Federalist Papers, which Conservative Patriotic Americans seem to never even know exists.

 
I will agree that broken people are a problem. If there's a common thread it's typically the feeling of powerlessness. People who feel they don't have power --- whether they are socially and romantically inept, or feel a newcomer or "other" is taking their place in the social order -- they turn on the people they think are laughing at them. The elitists. 

There is one incredibly easy shortcut to power: a gun and a deathwish. 

This is sad and dangerous. If you think you can trace it to a larger moral decline, be careful assuming its origin. 

 
I learned something very interesting last night.

The republican party was founded by socialists.

Crazy, right???

The "Little White Schoolhouse" where it all started was built by an immigrant socialist community that wanted to focus giving people ownership in the community.

 
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DefenderAO said:
No.  I'm stating the issues we're seeing now are a manifestation of the human condition.  The normalization of misgendering people (who have great value, intrinsically), mass shooting (the predominance of shootings are not sensationalized because they don't enhance an agenda), and other mess come from a root issue.

I do believe in the wisdom of separating church and state as broken people are at the core of both.  
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So....violent crimes have drastically reduced over the past 30+ years.

Does that mean our society has gotten better, as far as the human condition goes?

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
Not to mention his argument that progressive filth leads to this moral decay and presumably our epidemic of violence, but he can't respond to why European hellholes have 600% less violent crime.

Or heck, if you exclude liberal states and only compare puritan Conservative utopia's to Progressives European Children Indoctrination Machines, those violent crime statistics become even MORE disproportionate. 

In addition to this, his reasoning of the existence of the 2A, which in typical conservative fashion is completely undermined by a simple look at the Federalist Papers, which Conservative Patriotic Americans seem to never even know exists.
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Those countries don't have the cultural (vastly different than racial) issues our country faces as well.  A plurality of violent crimes, if not majority, show this to be the case.

I also provided higher fidelity, and more relevant, data to your assertion red states are the problem.  

 
DefenderAO said:
I can hold two positions at once.  Ache for the families of this horrific tragedy and also listen to my grandmother in-laws stories of her family's encampment and slaughter..the latter could've been written a little differently had there been a means for those people to defend themselves.  

I believe there is an element where freedom is scary.  I believe the alternative is a dystopia the word scary well understates.  
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This seems pretty dystopian to me 
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DefenderAO said:
A little deeper.  Top 10 cities by murder/manslaughter rates:

1. St Louis

2. Baltimore

3. Detroit

4. New Orleans

5. Baton Rouge

6. Kansas City

7. Cleveland

8. Memphis

9. Newark

10. Cincinnati

But, again, party lines as they exist today aren't going to fix this IMO.
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Why are you only looking at cities?

 
DefenderAO said:
I haven't claimed it's the truth I derived.  It's one I'll bow to as all the "truths" I've adopted, or seen other follow through on, seem to lead to pain and lifelessness at some point.  Without fail.
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But what if it is fail? What if you're 100% wrong about the 1% of people with some form of gender conflict, a condition that appears to have existed throughout history and across nations and cultures, not simply 2023 America?  Why should your gut feeling and anecdotal evidence override a mountain of evidence and the people who live with the consequences? And why does it keep coming up in a thread about gun ownership? 

 
BigRedBuster said:
So....violent crimes have drastically reduced over the past 30+ years.

Does that mean our society has gotten better, as far as the human condition goes?
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A don't view violent crimes as the measuring stick for decay towards ruin.  How is the trend for child abuse through genital mutilation trending?  

If violent crimes have drastically decreased, why not put even more focus on the isolated (and lessening) conditions where they do occur vs. punishing or restricting the law abiding of this country?

 
funhusker said:
I learned something very interesting last night.

The republican party was founded by socialists.

Crazy, right???

The "Little White Schoolhouse" where it all started was built by an immigrant socialist community that wanted to focus giving people ownership in the community.
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Joe Biden on former KKK member Robert Byrd: "He was a mentor and a friend, and for a lot of us, he was a guide."

Both sides seem a bit broken, huh?

 
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