Gun Control

DefenderAO said:
HBO documentary "Transhood."  The examples are not hard to find even through media that generally celebrates it as good.

It's filth and now normalized.  

Gun control - take the guns, make sheep of the law-abiding, and the criminals get more brazen...

Gun violence is a symptom.  Treating the symptom doesn't bring reform.  Transgenderism is another symptom.  In this recent shooting case, we have both prevalent.   

Mutilated kids and gun violence will continue if the root is not understood and worked through.  
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Fair enough.  I asked for one, and you provided one.  I have not seen that documentary, so I will take your "word" for it.  I did some quick research, and I found this study.  https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

It shows that ~120,000 of children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria.  This represents about 0.17% of the US population under the age of 18.  That's not even the number of youths who are actually going through gender re-affirming surgery (or genital mutilation, as you call it) that you think is such a prevalent problem in the United States.  Again, it's just throwing out the buzz words to get people all worked up about what are the "problems" with US society.  It's deflection of what the true problems in the US.

 
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DefenderAO said:
Straw men?  Kids are being mutilated to change genders.  That's reality.  Objective truth isn't a high ground, it's understanding subjective truth is chaos.  If this point makes you upset or contemptuous, I cannot help you there.  

I'll take the America I'm in today with all of its good and bad.  
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Hold up. You think trans healthcare is "mutilation?"

You probably don't know, but before gender altering surgery takes place there are years of counseling, consultations and parental involvement (in some cases, but not all). Trans care is healthcare. You're trying to deny people basic healthcare because you don't understand it, it's different than your "normal," and you're therefore vilifying it.

Trans people don't affect your life in any way. Disabuse yourself of the notion that you should have a say in their healthcare because you don't think like them. That's not your decision in a democracy. That's autocratic thinking.

 
And I think the mass killings af Americans by Americans with guns has gotten sideswiped in this thread by a focus on gender identity.  Theres' another thread on this board for that topic.

Perhaps we can focus on the fact that typically consistent in a mass shooters history is trauma in their childhood - like sexual assaults, bullying, violence in the home and that the majority of them are committed by white, christian, male, loners, many of whom have targeted folks based on religion, race or where they are in proximity to a location that means something to the shooter.  These men are looking for acceptance and approval, and have decided that this suicide, and taking others out with them is the way to gain that.  

Of the 135 mass shootings in the US since 1985 only 4 were done by women.   .03%

Most of these shooters got their guns "legally".

Most of the recent shootings have involved AR15 as the main weapon.

So the problem isn't gender identity.  It's access to guns (mostly high velocity) and lack of stop gap measures to identify the folks that should have access to them.  Most of whom are men.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/27/981803154/why-nearly-all-mass-shooters-are-men

 
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DefenderAO said:
Gun violence is a symptom.  Treating the symptom doesn't bring reform.  Transgenderism is another symptom.  In this recent shooting case, we have both prevalent.   

Mutilated kids and gun violence will continue if the root is not understood and worked through.  
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Dude, we have literally hundreds of mass shootings in this country, and we are always struggling to understand what drove the person to do it. 

The vast majority of shooters are young white guys, many who fit the incel profile (involuntary celibate heterosexuals), yet for some reason you have latched on to trangenderism as the root. Picking today to join the gun control debate is obviously no coincidence.

I know this is going to hurt your brain, but transgenderism is a complex issue. You have reduced it to mutated four year olds, a problem that is literally non-existent. There is genuine debate among liberals, conservatives, parents, kids, medical professionals and policy makers about the lines being crossed, and they will likely continue as we learn more. That comes with the complicated territory. 

Full disclosure: as the father of a 22 year old nonbinary child, I still have a s#!tload of questions and I am emotionally opposed to chemical and surgical options for the person I still consider my daughter. I counted on the medical community to have my back on this, but the research was conclusive; gender reassignment was highly preferable -- both mentally and physically - to not being allowed to transition. My kid actually isn't transitioning — they just seem to like flouting gender norms --- but they have schooled me on the subject. Hate trying to remember the pronouns, but love my kid. Full disclosure II?  I think the world is going through a phase. Gender freedom is here to stay, but things might look a little different as the pendulum swings back and forth, and risk factors and success rates get larger sample sizes. As mentioned, it affects less than 1% of the population, and poses zero risk to the remaining 99%

i.e. we're on the slippery slope to learning more and getting better about it. 

By the way, it's not parents who are lobbying to let their kids lob off their parts. It's always driven by the kid, usually at a high risk of bullying and rejection. Even then, it's considered highly preferable to their current unhappiness. The stats back them up. 

There are no cars. There is no traffic. It's not like letting your kid play in traffic. 

 
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Guy Chamberlin said:
Dude, we have literally hundreds of mass shootings in this country, and we are always struggling to understand what drove the person to do it. 

The vast majority of shooters are young white guys, many who fit the incel profile (involuntary celibate heterosexuals), yet for some reason you have latched on to trangenderism as the root. Picking today to join the gun control debate is obviously no coincidence.

I know this is going to hurt your brain, but transgenderism is a complex issue. You have reduced it to mutated four year olds, a problem that is literally non-existent. There is genuine debate among liberals, conservatives, parents, kids, medical professionals and policy makers about the lines being crossed, and they will likely continue as we learn more. That comes with the complicated territory. 

Full disclosure: as the father of a 22 year old nonbinary child, I still have a s#!tload of questions and I am emotionally opposed to chemical and surgical options for the person I still consider my daughter. I counted on the medical community to have my back on this, but the research was conclusive; gender reassignment was highly preferable -- both mentally and physically - to not being allowed to transition. My kid actually isn't transitioning — they just seem to like flouting gender norms --- but they have schooled me on the subject. Hate trying to remember the pronouns, but love my kid. Full disclosure II?  I think the world is going through a phase. Gender freedom is here to stay, but things might look a little different as the pendulum swings back and forth, and risk factors and success rates get larger sample sizes.

i.e. we're on the slippery slope to learning more and getting better about it. 

By the way, it's not parents who are lobbying to let their kids lob off their parts. It's always driven by the kid, usually at a high risk of bullying and rejection. Even then, it's considered highly preferable to their current unhappiness. The stats back them up. 

There are no cars. There is no traffic. It's not like letting your kid play in traffic. 
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Thank you for sharing your experience as a parent to your child.  Hopefully, you sharing your experience will drive people to do some research and get a better understanding of transgenderism (which has nothing to do with gun control or gun violence).  That requires people to be empathetic and curious about certain issues.  Unfortunately, people prefer to hide behind their religion, reject and "hate" things that they aren't comfortable with, and that drives further division in this country, and potentially further violence.

 
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knapplc said:
I've flubbed this a few times. It's not always easy, especially if you've known a person as one pronoun their whole life. My experience, if you're obviously not doing it intentionally, people are pretty forgiving.
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True - and although it took some time for me to latch my head around it just as an English language change  "them/they/their" covers everyone without offending anyone.  

 
DefenderAO said:
A majority-view doesn't make something more aligned with truth.  Something widely practiced doesn't either.  The irony on integration, progressivism is so broken you're now seeing demands of segregation from the individuals whose parents and grandparents fought for rightful integration.  

Some of the oldest books written were, in part, informational and others instructional - "this is what was happening" vs "this is what is good."  Just because something was happening doesn't make it right.  Truth is no person has more or less value than another.  Women and men, other races...all valuable.  

Where we're at today?  Celebrating sexualizing and mutilating children, blaming a tool for a horrific tragedy vs. the responsibility of the individual (and others).  Men are competing as women and destroying records.  Men are "woman of the year" winners.  Where's the line?  You can identify as literally anything you want?  

My kids want to play in traffic.  That's their truth that it could be fun.  Allow it as to not infringe on individual (child...smh) liberty?  The four year old wakes up and says "I'm a different gender!"  Cut them up because that's what's good for them?

"Live and let live" is a huge reason why we're here.  North isn't North.  It's wherever you say it is.

Looking forward to these tragedies making your list of finally moving towards what is better.  
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So, he’ll us out here.  You’re speaking in all these high level platitudes that actually, the basis of your argument, probably many agree with. Which is, there are some serious problems in our society. 
 

Where the argument comes is, what are those problems, what are the causes of those problems. 
 

You say majority rule is not good because the majority might support immorality. So, answer me this, who decides what is immoral and, how should society handle it if the majority is deemed immoral?
 

 
ColoradoHusk said:
Fair enough.  I asked for one, and you provided one.  I have not seen that documentary, so I will take your "word" for it.  I did some quick research, and I found this study.  https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

It shows that ~120,000 of children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria.  This represents about 0.17% of the US population under the age of 18.  That's not even the number of youths who are actually going through gender re-affirming surgery (or genital mutilation, as you call it) that you think is such a prevalent problem in the United States.  Again, it's just throwing out the buzz words to get people all worked up about what are the "problems" with US society.  It's deflection of what the true problems in the US.
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I didn't say it is prevalent.  It is certainly relevant to the thread and a representative symptom of a root cause.  What do the suicide rates say?

 
knapplc said:
Hold up. You think trans healthcare is "mutilation?"

You probably don't know, but before gender altering surgery takes place there are years of counseling, consultations and parental involvement (in some cases, but not all). Trans care is healthcare. You're trying to deny people basic healthcare because you don't understand it, it's different than your "normal," and you're therefore vilifying it.

Trans people don't affect your life in any way. Disabuse yourself of the notion that you should have a say in their healthcare because you don't think like them. That's not your decision in a democracy. That's autocratic thinking.
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Not sure you're reading the updates.  I'm against the act and the progressive movement to condone, promote, and/or champion it.  

A trans person sure did impact lives recently.  And not because they're trans, but that is how the real issue manifested.  Before the shooting, does your relativism say all was well as that persons truth was being fully realized?  Then truth became people need to die.  It infringed on other people's truths they want to live.

It's all so terribly tragic.  The shooting, paramount to anything, and then the systems arising in the thread.  

 
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DefenderAO said:
I didn't say it is prevalent.  It is certainly relevant to the thread and a representative symptom of a root cause.  What do the suicide rates say?
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The suicide rates say that closeted homosexuals who feared they would never be accepted by society or family or given the chance to love who they wanted, would often rather kill themselves than come out. Similar for young people with gender dysphoria, for the same reason. As acceptance grows, suicide rates go down.

As a person of moral character I gotta think you'd be rooting for this. 

 
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