Michigan and Harbaugh under NCAA investigation

[JJ Husker]

IF Purdue, OSU and Rutgers had Michigan's signals last year,  was there a competitive advantage in those games? 

This isn’t even remotely the correct question to be posing.

There are perfectly acceptable ways to determine and acquire other teams signals. And there are ways to do it that are against the current rules.

I won’t argue for or against the rule even if I do find it misguided. But that is a completely different discussion than the current issue of whether or not Michigan broke the rules or cheated.

 

[Mavric]

What is wrong with posting what they are thinking or writing about? the bloggers and insiders might not be correct, so I try and preface the posts with the word 'IF'. 

What's wrong with telling to do the same thing you're admonishing others to do?

 

[Mavric]

[No message]

 

[GSG]

 

[nic]

What's wrong with telling to do the same thing you're admonishing others to do?

Did I accuse someone of something? I think I am just posting what other boards are saying (the bloggers and insiders could be wrong about a lot of it). What I think I know for sure is that Stallions is an odd duck and trust fund baby that paid people to film games and used that video to help him get better at stealing signs for Michigan. This violated the NCAA rule against scouting or paying people to scout future opponents in the same season. NCAA is investigating. Big10 served M with the allegations and M responded. M is also leaking their own allegations of sign stealing done by other teams. M probably has no intention of self punishment like they did for the cheeseburgers, and it seems like they are gearing up to fight it.

 

[nic]

This isn’t even remotely the correct question to be posing.

In this case, I am not asking about whether Michigan broke rules. I suspect there is enough evidence to link Stalions to paying people to video tape games for the purpose of helping him get better at stealing signs, and Michigan used him for that skill set. This beaks the NCAA rule for scouting or paying people to scout future opponents in the same season.  

Now, for question my last question:

IF Purdue, OSU and Rutgers had Michigan's signals last year,  was there a competitive advantage in those games? 

Notice I didn't mention the accusation that OSU and Rutgers shared what the had developed with Purdue. Coaches would share game tape all the time when I played. There have been comments on X that suggest this signal stealing was a huge advantage for M over other teams, but some of those teams are accused of having Michigan's signals too. So where is the advantage? Maybe it is that Stalions had more material to work with so it didn't take him as long to figure out the signals? 

 

[Mavric]

This is the most bulls#!t response possible.

First, why did they waste all that time and effort if it wasn't doing any good?  Why were all they players in on it if it wasn't doing any good?

Second, "there is no evidence" of it?  Then provide a transcript for everything Stalions was saying in the ear of the DC that got the whole bench to jump up and down and point.

Third, what is the "this season" qualifier for?

 

[Mavric]

Why would a running back who is probably getting paid more than he will in the NFL investing in a vacuum cleaner business? That is just weird. BI did see something about Stalions neighbors complaining about vacuums outside of his new house. That dude was really weird and has very rich parents that enable him. I am not sure how he made it through boot camp at Pendleton.

 

[JJ Husker]

In this case, I am not asking about whether Michigan broke rules. I suspect there is enough evidence to link Stalions to paying people to video tape games for the purpose of helping him get better at stealing signs, and Michigan used him for that skill set. This beaks the NCAA rule for scouting or paying people to scout future opponents in the same season.  

Now, for question my last question:

Notice I didn't mention the accusation that OSU and Rutgers shared what the had developed with Purdue. Coaches would share game tape all the time when I played. There have been comments on X that suggest this signal stealing was a huge advantage for M over other teams, but some of those teams are accused of having Michigan's signals too. So where is the advantage? Maybe it is that Stalions had more material to work with so it didn't take him as long to figure out the signals? 

To answer your question, sort of, is obviously the more information a team has about their opponents signals, the more advantage they have. I mean that’s pretty self explanatory. It doesn’t matter if it’s Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan or the Lincoln East junior varsity.

And once again, it has absolutely nothing to do with determining if Michigan broke the rules and cheated.

 

[teachercd]

The players have no idea about contracts they signed with Connor.

Jim has no idea who Connor is

CMU has no idea who was on their sideline

At what point do you just say "look, we don't need hard evidence, it is clear you are all lying, we are just going to use common sense"

 

[Lorewarn]

This is the most bulls#!t response possible.

First, why did they waste all that time and effort if it wasn't doing any good?  Why were all they players in on it if it wasn't doing any good?

Second, "there is no evidence" of it?  Then provide a transcript for everything Stalions was saying in the ear of the DC that got the whole bench to jump up and down and point.

Third, what is the "this season" qualifier for?

This just reads as "lawyers always start with every defense under the sun and are fine to abandon them later" to me, nothing to take seriously other than billable hours.

 

[jaws]

I would like to give Nic credit for defending his team.....right or wrong

 

[nic]

To answer your question, sort of, is obviously the more information a team has about their opponents signals, the more advantage they have. I mean that’s pretty self explanatory. It doesn’t matter if it’s Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan or the Lincoln East junior varsity.

And once again, it has absolutely nothing to do with determining if Michigan broke the rules and cheated.

It's more about what is the proper punishment. If it is forfeit all games and awards for the past 2.5 years I would fight it.  If it's a show cause for Stalions and some punishment for the head coach because the NCAA can hold them completely responsible, that seems fine.  If the head coach punishment is indefinite suspension I would fight that too. The NCAA punishment would be for illegally scouting future opponents. The Big10 is a sportsmanship penalty. No idea what that has been for that in the past. 

 

[JJ Husker]

It's more about what is the proper punishment. If it is forfeit all games and awards for the past 2.5 years I would fight it.  If it's a show cause for Stalions and some punishment for the head coach because the NCAA can hold them completely responsible, that seems fine.  If the head coach punishment is indefinite suspension I would fight that too. The NCAA punishment would be for illegally scouting future opponents. The Big10 is a sportsmanship penalty. No idea what that has been for that in the past. 

I really seriously doubt that the punishment would be as severe as an indefinite suspension for Harbaugh. There definitely should be a show cause for Stalions and some punishment for the team and Harbaugh. IDK about vacating wins and going back 2-3 years….does anybody really care about that? I’d say make it stiff enough that they won’t want to cheat again and not much more than that….but they aren’t going to ask for my opinion.

Welcome to the added scrutiny of being a top ten team.

 

[Loe Doesnt Know]

My opinion regarding punishment:

Hit the offenders where it hurts.. If the evidence exists that a team (or group of teams) violated the "fairness of the game" 

Hypothetical let's say Nebraska is the abuser of the fairness article:

• The first offense penalty is a portion of that game day payout taken from the abuser (Nebraska) and paid to the opponent. (Say 10% of what ever the game day payout winds up being) Stiff penalty but not severe. No other disciplinary action is taken by the B1G and if the offending team decides to take disciplinary action on their coach(s), so be it.
  
• Second offense becomes more severe and can include suspension of coach's as well as additional % in fines paid to the opponent.
  
• Third offense, head coach is suspended, internal investigation is done, significant increase in % in fines increase. 
  

However, in the current scenario with Michigan, it is simply not ethical to consider past years so, this would be their first and only offense.