NBA 2023-24

[JJ Husker]

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Nuggets appear to be rounding into form.  I honestly had last night chalked up as a loss (even took the Warriors in a pick em before the game) to a hot Warriors team trying to avoid the seconds straight season sweep.  Warriors jumped out with Klay turning back the clock.  Nuggets just kind of imposed their will and fell into their 2 man game and 3v2 high-low.  Look pretty locked in at the moment.

The Nuggets reminded me of the vintage Warriors. Trailing by double-digits means nothing. Just hang in, stay true to your game, chip away, and then pull away at the end because you are the superior team. 

 

[Jason Sitoke]

The Nuggets reminded me of the vintage Warriors. Trailing by double-digits means nothing. Just hang in, stay true to your game, chip away, and then pull away at the end because you are the superior team. 

Really enjoyed Steph burying the suns a couple weeks ago. Cannot stand Phoenix. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

On 2/27/2024 at 7:37 AM, JJ Husker said:

I was at the game for that last clip: Westbrook walks seven steps up court without dribbling. Like it's a perfectly normal thing. You couldn't believe it just happened. Place was howling. 

But I'm certainly not gonna hate on the NBA for missing a few calls. There are plenty of traveling calls every game, and last night I actually saw them call Jordan Poole for palming. 

 

[JJ Husker]

I was at the game for that last clip: Westbrook walks seven steps up court without dribbling. Like it's a perfectly normal thing. You couldn't believe it just happened. Place was howling. 

But I'm certainly not gonna hate on the NBA for missing a few calls. There are plenty of traveling calls every game, and last night I actually saw them call Jordan Poole for palming. 

I don’t care enough about the NBA to hate on them. But the traveling, double dribbles and palming is out of control. These are the best players and best refs in the world and they can’t seem to get these basic easy things correct. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I don’t care enough about the NBA to hate on them. But the traveling, double dribbles and palming is out of control. These are the best players and best refs in the world and they can’t seem to get these basic easy things correct. 

There are about 500,000 possessions in NBA games a year. They get it right often enough. When they get it wrong we get to laugh at it on Shaqtin a Fool. There were some issues with looser traveling calls during the Allen Iverson era. Actually seems a bit better now.

NBA moves faster than NFL or MLB, closer to NHL. I don't know any sport that doesn't have a ref problem, given that we only notice them when they get things wrong. 

 

[Mavric]

But I'm certainly not gonna hate on the NBA for missing a few calls. There are plenty of traveling calls every game, and last night I actually saw them call Jordan Poole for palming. 

I feel fairly confident that they aren't "missing" those calls.  They are instructed not to call them.

 

[JJ Husker]

There are about 500,000 possessions in NBA games a year. They get it right often enough. When they get it wrong we get to laugh at it on Shaqtin a Fool. There were some issues with looser traveling calls during the Allen Iverson era. Actually seems a bit better now.

NBA moves faster than NFL or MLB, closer to NHL. I don't know any sport that doesn't have a ref problem, given that we only notice them when they get things wrong. 

We’re going to have to disagree a bit here. Yes it’s a fast game with a whole bunch of opportunities to miss some trivial calls. But it does happen too often, often enough that it’s apparent that the league doesn’t want them all called and with more leeway for star players.

My problem with it is I used to play bball and I reffed for quite a few years following high school. Did lots of Nebraska high school varsity, jv, junior high, youth, boys and girls and mens league games. Switching pivot feet and taking 4+ steps with the ball is the easiest thing in the world to see no matter the speed of the game. I will grant you that sometimes that third step is tough in a high paced game. I don’t fault them for those. But time after time I see 4-5-6 steps and blatant carries and double dribbles. It’s way more than can be accounted for by the speed of the game.  
 

The toughest games for me personally were girls jr high games. Inevitably one of the coaches would ask us before the game to overlook an extra step on traveling. I was kind of a d!(k. Told them that if it was a problem they should work more on fundamentals and that I could call the game right or completely ignore all traveling calls. There wasn’t going to be any halfass enforcement.  The coaches always agreed that traveling should be called according to the rules. And yeah, it was painful to watch. But it wasn’t ever a problem at the HS level. Not sure why it needs to be dumbed down for the greatest players in the world.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I feel fairly confident that they aren't "missing" those calls.  They are instructed not to call them.

Where does that confidence come from? 

You could say that the NBA thinks traveling makes the game more exciting for fans, or that they're trying to protect certain favored players from calls given lesser players. But the evidence doesn't really confirm that. The evidence does suggests different ref crews have slightly different styles of calling games. And occasionally individual refs have individual beefs with individual players. They get reviewed every game. If you miss too many calls, you don't get to be on a playoff crew. 

Here in Warrior-land, we point to how Steph Curry is constantly fouled but gets fewer calls than any superstar in the NBA. I'm trying to weave that into a conspiracy, but can't figure out how it works or who it serves. 

And according to LeBron James, no player in the NBA is more victimized by refs than LeBron James. 

It may be like holding in football. Supposedly happens on every play, but the game would grind to a halt if you called it every time. 

 

[JJ Husker]

Where does that confidence come from? 

You could say that the NBA thinks traveling makes the game more exciting for fans, or that they're trying to protect certain favored players from calls given lesser players. But the evidence doesn't really confirm that. The evidence does suggests different ref crews have slightly different styles of calling games. And occasionally individual refs have individual beefs with individual players. They get reviewed every game. If you miss too many calls, you don't get to be on a playoff crew. 

Here in Warrior-land, we point to how Steph Curry is constantly fouled but gets fewer calls than any superstar in the NBA. I'm trying to weave that into a conspiracy, but can't figure out how it works or who it serves. 

And according to LeBron James, no player in the NBA is more victimized by refs than LeBron James. 

The confidence and evidence is in the games and the sheer number of ignored calls. It doesn’t require some tin-foil hat conspiracy theory. It’s blatantly evident that the league doesn’t want simple infractions like traveling, double dribble and palming called according to the rules. If they did, there would not be so many skipped calls and such blatant no calls. Why you ask. IDK you would have to ask the NBA. I suspect because it’s a better fan experience to not have the game slowed down with play stoppages.

 

[Mavric]

Where does that confidence come from? 

Pretty much what @JJ Husker said.

You could say that the NBA thinks traveling makes the game more exciting for fans

This seems pretty obvious.

or that they're trying to protect certain favored players from calls given lesser players.

Not part of my argument but possible.

But the evidence doesn't really confirm that.

What evidence?

The evidence does suggests different ref crews have slightly different styles of calling games. And occasionally individual refs have individual beefs with individual players. They get reviewed every game. If you miss too many calls, you don't get to be on a playoff crew. 

OK.  But that wouldn't have anything to do with it if the league is telling all refs to let stuff go.

Here in Warrior-land, we point to how Steph Curry is constantly fouled but gets fewer calls than any superstar in the NBA. I'm trying to weave that into a conspiracy, but can't figure out how it works or who it serves. 

Pretty sure every fan thinks everyone else gets more calls than their players do.

And according to LeBron James, no player in the NBA is more victimized by refs than LeBron James. 

No one in the NBA might whine as much as LeBron.  But I digress.

It may be like holding in football. Supposedly happens on every play, but the game would grind to a halt if you called it every time. 

I think it is similar but not the same.  In football there is always "holding" but it is more of a judgement call if it creates an unfair advantage or not.  If you're "holding" in a normal blocking position, it's part of the block.  If you're holding as the guy is getting away from you, it's a hold.  With traveling or double dribbling, it is supposedly very clear cut what is allowed and what is not.  It just seems incredibly obvious that it is the implementation of the rule is significantly different from what the rule actually says.  

As I've said for years, the NBA is not basketball.  It's a business meant to resemble the game of basketball.  They want entertainment value and that's one way they get it.

 

[Lorewarn]

100% on the side, generally speaking over the last 25 years or so, that it's not 'missed' calls as much as a deliberate lack of care or emphasis on the calls.

But with that being said, the NBA made an offseason point to focus more on traveling, palming and carrying, and the rates those have been called have gone up quite a whole lot this season. Still nowhere even in the same universe as what little you can get away with in high school and college, but better than it has historically been.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

As I've said for years, the NBA is not basketball.  It's a business meant to resemble the game of basketball.  They want entertainment value and that's one way they get it.

The other way to get entertainment is to have some of the best athletes in the world playing exciting games to the enjoyment of millions.

I'm not sure where the NBA lost you, but if your cynicism runs that deep, I don't know what you're doing on an NBA thread. 

 

[Mavric]

The other way to get entertainment is to have some of the best athletes in the world playing exciting games to the enjoyment of millions.

And it's easier for them to show off their athleticism if you decide to ignore rules designed to keep them in place.

I'm not sure where the NBA lost you, but if your cynicism runs that deep, I don't know what you're doing on an NBA thread. 

It's not cynicism.  It's observation.

You said you had evidence to the contrary.  Do you?

 

[admo]

Over the last 20+ years the game changed from NBA to National Basketball Entertainment and loads of money.

And the highly paid officials/Referees must adhere to the commissioners demands.  

 It's mafia entertainment with some basketball.  If you know, you know.