Talent Level

Pedro Guerrero

Pedro Guerrero

Team HuskerBoard
Alright all I’ve been hearing since the butt kicking is how we don’t have talent and the cupboards are bare. We may not have Top 15 talent but I think you have to be kidding yourself if you believe we don’t have at least enough talent to field a bottom half of the Top 25 team. I know some folks like to say that the recruiting sites and the previous staff duped us into believing he were getting Top Notch kids, which I think we did in a few instances however our short comings are the bottom halves of our classes. We brought in kids that other Top 25 teams wanted and that is a fact no matter how you look at it. Were all of them those types? No and only the Top Programs do that, however there were enough of them that we should be able to compete and not roll over against good teams. We had a few kids that USC wanted; some were wanted by OU, some by Kansas, Missouri, Florida, Oregon, and some others. So top to bottom do we have the talent we need? Probably not but we have enough to be competitive. IMO

Now that being said I think the real problem is the fact that some of those talented kids that we brought in weren’t developed into the players they should be. Some of them might be getting actual coaching for the first time since arriving on Campus. However I also believe that some kids have taken steps backwards with the Position coach they have this year. (Not naming names of either players or coaches) I also wonder about some of the kid’s ability to grasp things mentally for whatever reason. I think this has a lot to do with why some kids are playing on Defense now that have no business being on a Big 12 starting defense. I think they can pick up things in practice quicker and thus are rewarded with P.T. even if it means the play on the field will suffer.

Anyway I think we have enough talent to put up fights with people and win freaking games, but top to bottom we can’t match up with the Top Notch teams. So I guess we do need more talent but if you ask me it isn’t as much as some people want you to believe.

Like I said just because it is underdeveloped talent doesn’t mean it isn’t talent.

 
newearthhusker said:
Alright all I’ve been hearing since the butt kicking is how we don’t have talent and the cupboards are bare. We may not have Top 15 talent but I think you have to be kidding yourself if you believe we don’t have at least enough talent to field a bottom half of the Top 25 team. I know some folks like to say that the recruiting sites and the previous staff duped us into believing he were getting Top Notch kids, which I think we did in a few instances however our short comings are the bottom halves of our classes. We brought in kids that other Top 25 teams wanted and that is a fact no matter how you look at it. Were all of them those types? No and only the Top Programs do that, however there were enough of them that we should be able to compete and not roll over against good teams. We had a few kids that USC wanted; some were wanted by OU, some by Kansas, Missouri, Florida, Oregon, and some others. So top to bottom do we have the talent we need? Probably not but we have enough to be competitive. IMO

Now that being said I think the real problem is the fact that some of those talented kids that we brought in weren’t developed into the players they should be. Some of them might be getting actual coaching for the first time since arriving on Campus. However I also believe that some kids have taken steps backwards with the Position coach they have this year. (Not naming names of either players or coaches) I also wonder about some of the kid’s ability to grasp things mentally for whatever reason. I think this has a lot to do with why some kids are playing on Defense now that have no business being on a Big 12 starting defense. I think they can pick up things in practice quicker and thus are rewarded with P.T. even if it means the play on the field will suffer.

Anyway I think we have enough talent to put up fights with people and win freaking games, but top to bottom we can’t match up with the Top Notch teams. So I guess we do need more talent but if you ask me it isn’t as much as some people want you to believe.

Like I said just because it is underdeveloped talent doesn’t mean it isn’t talent.
Click to expand...

One of the more telling aspects of talent is the simple assessment of speed, quickness, and strength. There is, of course, more to it than that. Yet, in this regard, NU is nowhere near top 25 in these areas. Not even close. In terms of speed, our defensive team speed is very, very poor. Top 25? No. Top 40? maybe, but probably not. Offensive skill position athletes? Top 25 speed? No. In fact, in terms of defensive team speed and offensive skill position speed, NU barely cracks the top 10 in the Big 12 conference.

Strength in the trenches? Watch film. Our OL line is soft, slow and is routinely overpowered. Our Dl is blown off the ball with regularity. Strength in the trenches is clearly not top 25 caliber.

As for any game breakers on offense? Not one. Game-controlling type defensive players? Not one. NFl-caliber players on offense? Hmnn... I don't see any certain NFL types. Maybe there is one, but anybody confidant we have a Sunday player on our offense? On defense? Not sure we have an NFL guy there either. Now look at the top 25 programs and see how many NFL types they have.

No... our talent level is down and has been down. Look at our production of drafted players these past two years and extrapolate into the next few years. many draftable players? A few --- but any top 2 round type players? No. None are in sight.

It is true that NU is not maximizing the potential of the players they do have. But also true is the players they do have are not top 25 talent.

I'll admit that NU should be better than they are --- but in no way is their talent where they could remotely be expected to be ranked.

 
robsker said:
newearthhusker said:
Alright all I’ve been hearing since the butt kicking is how we don’t have talent and the cupboards are bare. We may not have Top 15 talent but I think you have to be kidding yourself if you believe we don’t have at least enough talent to field a bottom half of the Top 25 team. I know some folks like to say that the recruiting sites and the previous staff duped us into believing he were getting Top Notch kids, which I think we did in a few instances however our short comings are the bottom halves of our classes. We brought in kids that other Top 25 teams wanted and that is a fact no matter how you look at it. Were all of them those types? No and only the Top Programs do that, however there were enough of them that we should be able to compete and not roll over against good teams. We had a few kids that USC wanted; some were wanted by OU, some by Kansas, Missouri, Florida, Oregon, and some others. So top to bottom do we have the talent we need? Probably not but we have enough to be competitive. IMO

Now that being said I think the real problem is the fact that some of those talented kids that we brought in weren’t developed into the players they should be. Some of them might be getting actual coaching for the first time since arriving on Campus. However I also believe that some kids have taken steps backwards with the Position coach they have this year. (Not naming names of either players or coaches) I also wonder about some of the kid’s ability to grasp things mentally for whatever reason. I think this has a lot to do with why some kids are playing on Defense now that have no business being on a Big 12 starting defense. I think they can pick up things in practice quicker and thus are rewarded with P.T. even if it means the play on the field will suffer.

Anyway I think we have enough talent to put up fights with people and win freaking games, but top to bottom we can’t match up with the Top Notch teams. So I guess we do need more talent but if you ask me it isn’t as much as some people want you to believe.

Like I said just because it is underdeveloped talent doesn’t mean it isn’t talent.
Click to expand...

One of the more telling aspects of talent is the simple assessment of speed, quickness, and strength. There is, of course, more to it than that. Yet, in this regard, NU is nowhere near top 25 in these areas. Not even close. In terms of speed, our defensive team speed is very, very poor. Top 25? No. Top 40? maybe, but probably not. Offensive skill position athletes? Top 25 speed? No. In fact, in terms of defensive team speed and offensive skill position speed, NU barely cracks the top 10 in the Big 12 conference.

Strength in the trenches? Watch film. Our OL line is soft, slow and is routinely overpowered. Our Dl is blown off the ball with regularity. Strength in the trenches is clearly not top 25 caliber.

As for any game breakers on offense? Not one. Game-controlling type defensive players? Not one. NFl-caliber players on offense? Hmnn... I don't see any certain NFL types. Maybe there is one, but anybody confidant we have a Sunday player on our offense? On defense? Not sure we have an NFL guy there either. Now look at the top 25 programs and see how many NFL types they have.

No... our talent level is down and has been down. Look at our production of drafted players these past two years and extrapolate into the next few years. many draftable players? A few --- but any top 2 round type players? No. None are in sight.

It is true that NU is not maximizing the potential of the players they do have. But also true is the players they do have are not top 25 talent.

I'll admit that NU should be better than they are --- but in no way is their talent where they could remotely be expected to be ranked.
Click to expand...

i thought that was exactly what newearth said.

 
newearthhusker said:
Like I said just because it is underdeveloped talent doesn’t mean it isn’t talent.
Click to expand...
well if it's coaching, they may turn around a bit this season. or not.

two coaching staffs, mostly the same kids...

...mostly the same results so far.

granted it's early, only five games in.

GO BO!!

 
robsker said:
newearthhusker said:
Alright all I’ve been hearing since the butt kicking is how we don’t have talent and the cupboards are bare. We may not have Top 15 talent but I think you have to be kidding yourself if you believe we don’t have at least enough talent to field a bottom half of the Top 25 team. I know some folks like to say that the recruiting sites and the previous staff duped us into believing he were getting Top Notch kids, which I think we did in a few instances however our short comings are the bottom halves of our classes. We brought in kids that other Top 25 teams wanted and that is a fact no matter how you look at it. Were all of them those types? No and only the Top Programs do that, however there were enough of them that we should be able to compete and not roll over against good teams. We had a few kids that USC wanted; some were wanted by OU, some by Kansas, Missouri, Florida, Oregon, and some others. So top to bottom do we have the talent we need? Probably not but we have enough to be competitive. IMO

Now that being said I think the real problem is the fact that some of those talented kids that we brought in weren’t developed into the players they should be. Some of them might be getting actual coaching for the first time since arriving on Campus. However I also believe that some kids have taken steps backwards with the Position coach they have this year. (Not naming names of either players or coaches) I also wonder about some of the kid’s ability to grasp things mentally for whatever reason. I think this has a lot to do with why some kids are playing on Defense now that have no business being on a Big 12 starting defense. I think they can pick up things in practice quicker and thus are rewarded with P.T. even if it means the play on the field will suffer.

Anyway I think we have enough talent to put up fights with people and win freaking games, but top to bottom we can’t match up with the Top Notch teams. So I guess we do need more talent but if you ask me it isn’t as much as some people want you to believe.

Like I said just because it is underdeveloped talent doesn’t mean it isn’t talent.
Click to expand...

One of the more telling aspects of talent is the simple assessment of speed, quickness, and strength. There is, of course, more to it than that. Yet, in this regard, NU is nowhere near top 25 in these areas. Not even close. In terms of speed, our defensive team speed is very, very poor. Top 25? No. Top 40? maybe, but probably not. Offensive skill position athletes? Top 25 speed? No. In fact, in terms of defensive team speed and offensive skill position speed, NU barely cracks the top 10 in the Big 12 conference.

Strength in the trenches? Watch film. Our OL line is soft, slow and is routinely overpowered. Our Dl is blown off the ball with regularity. Strength in the trenches is clearly not top 25 caliber.

As for any game breakers on offense? Not one. Game-controlling type defensive players? Not one. NFl-caliber players on offense? Hmnn... I don't see any certain NFL types. Maybe there is one, but anybody confidant we have a Sunday player on our offense? On defense? Not sure we have an NFL guy there either. Now look at the top 25 programs and see how many NFL types they have.

No... our talent level is down and has been down. Look at our production of drafted players these past two years and extrapolate into the next few years. many draftable players? A few --- but any top 2 round type players? No. None are in sight.

It is true that NU is not maximizing the potential of the players they do have. But also true is the players they do have are not top 25 talent.

I'll admit that NU should be better than they are --- but in no way is their talent where they could remotely be expected to be ranked.
Click to expand...
NewEarth and I seem to agree --- to a degree --- though he posits that we have "bottom of the top 25" talent. I counter by saying that we do not --- that we are closer to #40 or so. The two of us do agree however on under-developed players and that we should be more competitive than we are.

 
The story is told in the trenches. Inability to sustain a pass rush, lack of depth, and an inability to run the ball. Mentally insecure athletes in the backfield on the defensive side and so-so performances from most of our running backs.

We've got a lot of work to do.

 
Nebraska's talent may not be top 20 or 25 talent but if you look at the top 25 does Ball State from top to bottom have top 25 talent? NO! They have a great QB in Nate Davis and a few decent position players but the only top 25 talnet they have is Davis. Look at Pitt, North Carolina, Northwestern come on these teams have little to no top 25 talent but they are ranked or near being ranked. On some of the plays that Nebraska does not make it is simple fundamentals that are broken not talent. Missed tackles comes from coaching not an assesment in tackling. That is something that can be worked on in practice and needs to be. I also do not know why the D-line and some of the o-line lost all of the weight they did. Potter was one of the better d players last year and this year he is decent but not playing at the same level as last year. In regards to NFL players on offense Marlon Lucky will be a third down back who is drafted, in the future youll have Javario Burkes, Helu will be, Marcus Mendoza has not played this year but he will be in the NFL someday. If you look at last years recruting class (2008) Bo does not have to much speed. Cameron Merdith is faster than Kreikemeier who is a LB. flash to the 09 recruting class and the fastest guy yuo have runs a 4.47 40. That is not blazing! The conditioning program needs to be examined because I thought that would all help but clearly it has not and I believe that it has made some players get pushed all over the field more.

 
For the record I don’t think assessing how many players on a College Roster will play on Sundays equates to Talent level. Some players are unbelievable College Talents but never or will never sniff a spot on a NFL team. Look at a lot of the IB over the years that have come through NU, solid college talent but for some reason or another to it didn’t turn into solid NFL talent. Or it could go the other way as well were someone isn’t that great of a College player but turn into a solid pro, like Scott Shanle.

I do see what you are pointing out though.

As far as the speed and weight training go couldn’t that be attributed to the old staffs inability to develop this kids from maturing teenagers to fully developed young men. I think the proper weight training can enhance quickness and football speed.

Something else I noticed: Last year it was “We have the talent the coaching just stinks” and this year it is “We have the coaching the talent just stinks” I ask that crowd what did we lose from last years team aside from Nunn, Purify and Nicks on Offense and Grixby and Ruud on defense. ( I would throw Keller in there but would get killed by some and I don’t have the energy to argue about it)

Huskerfan511 I was going to bring up the new recruits and last years class but I figured I would get jumped on by some around here.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
newearthhusker said:
For the record I don’t think assessing how many players on a College Roster will play on Sundays equates to Talent level. Some players are unbelievable College Talents but never or will never sniff a spot on a NFL team. Look at a lot of the IB over the years that have come through NU, solid college talent but for some reason or another to it didn’t turn into solid NFL talent. Or it could go the other way as well were someone isn’t that great of a College player but turn into a solid pro, like Scott Shanle.

I do see what you are pointing out though.

As far as the speed and weight training go couldn’t that be attributed to the old staffs inability to develop this kids from maturing teenagers to fully developed young men. I think the proper weight training can enhance quickness and football speed.

Huskerfan511 I was going to bring up the new recruits and last years class but I figured I would get jumped on by some around here.
Click to expand...
i am new ill take the hear for it then. Yeah the colelge player to the nfl is a good point... Eric Crouch anyone?? Brad Smith?? Joey Harrington??

And i think that the current strength staff did not help this year like i said before. they are getting pushed all over the place this year (even more than last year)

 
Talent level of individuals means absolutely Zilch if they can't play well with others. A team loaded with 11 walk-ons and one stars that play together as a team will end up having more success than 11 5 five stars running around on a field together but each doing his own thing...

Bring in as many high level recruits as you want...if they all want to be the Main Man, they're all going to look and play like fools.

 
huskerfan511 said:
Nebraska's talent may not be top 20 or 25 talent but if you look at the top 25 does Ball State from top to bottom have top 25 talent? NO! They have a great QB in Nate Davis and a few decent position players but the only top 25 talnet they have is Davis. Look at Pitt, North Carolina, Northwestern come on these teams have little to no top 25 talent but they are ranked or near being ranked. On some of the plays that Nebraska does not make it is simple fundamentals that are broken not talent. Missed tackles comes from coaching not an assesment in tackling. That is something that can be worked on in practice and needs to be. I also do not know why the D-line and some of the o-line lost all of the weight they did. Potter was one of the better d players last year and this year he is decent but not playing at the same level as last year. In regards to NFL players on offense Marlon Lucky will be a third down back who is drafted, in the future youll have Javario Burkes, Helu will be, Marcus Mendoza has not played this year but he will be in the NFL someday. If you look at last years recruting class (2008) Bo does not have to much speed. Cameron Merdith is faster than Kreikemeier who is a LB. flash to the 09 recruting class and the fastest guy yuo have runs a 4.47 40. That is not blazing! The conditioning program needs to be examined because I thought that would all help but clearly it has not and I believe that it has made some players get pushed all over the field more.
Click to expand...
Some very good points about Ball State and the others. but those teams will not end up in the top 25 when this season is finished and often teams with weak schedules and good records end up in the top 25 w/o really belonging there.

Your points are all excellent. Nice post.

 
newearthhusker said:
For the record I don’t think assessing how many players on a College Roster will play on Sundays equates to Talent level. Some players are unbelievable College Talents but never or will never sniff a spot on a NFL team. Look at a lot of the IB over the years that have come through NU, solid college talent but for some reason or another to it didn’t turn into solid NFL talent. Or it could go the other way as well were someone isn’t that great of a College player but turn into a solid pro, like Scott Shanle.

I do see what you are pointing out though.

As far as the speed and weight training go couldn’t that be attributed to the old staffs inability to develop this kids from maturing teenagers to fully developed young men. I think the proper weight training can enhance quickness and football speed.

Something else I noticed: Last year it was “We have the talent the coaching just stinks” and this year it is “We have the coaching the talent just stinks” I ask that crowd what did we lose from last years team aside from Nunn, Purify and Nicks on Offense and Grixby and Ruud on defense. ( I would throw Keller in there but would get killed by some and I don’t have the energy to argue about it)

Huskerfan511 I was going to bring up the new recruits and last years class but I figured I would get jumped on by some around here.
Click to expand...

Good questions.

last year I definately said the problem was BOTH low talent and bad coaching. This year it is low talent and, well... too early to tell about coaching. But, what a tough team to adopt --- even if Pelini is not yet getting these guys going, well... that is not enough to impugn him as not doing well. Consider what he inherited. His is a tough, tough job. In due time we'll see what a coach it is that we have.

 
Cy the Cyclone said:
Talent level of individuals means absolutely Zilch if they can't play well with others. A team loaded with 11 walk-ons and one stars that play together as a team will end up having more success than 11 5 five stars running around on a field together but each doing his own thing...

Bring in as many high level recruits as you want...if they all want to be the Main Man, they're all going to look and play like fools.
Click to expand...
If you truly believe this then answer this:

Who would you take in a game against Miami (a bunch of talent yet right now still play more like individuals) against Buffalo (a bunch of No to 2 star guys that might be walk-ons some place else yet play hard)? I would take Miami every time.

I see what you’re saying but the 11 Walk-on thing might be a bit extreme.

 
Seriously, you guys wanna talk talent?

I think it's pretty telling that Bo took a back up RB who hasn't played a down of defense since HS, moves him over to the other side of the line, and he becomes arguably NU's best player.

Patience. I had it with Callahan. Many of you did, too. Bo is doing a lot of things right.

Experts say it takes at least 6 months to break a bad habit. Bo has had 2 weeks in the spring, and now 2 months this fall. His track record speaks for itself. He's had success with his system on a consistent basis. I am confident he will get us there, it will just take more time than I had hoped.

It's only his 6th game ever as a head coach! Was Alabama great last year? No. Was OU very good in Stoops's first year? No. Was KU very good in Mangino's first years? No.

Have some faith. I know everyone wants to win, as do I, but sheesh.

 
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