Callahan's Legacy

HuskerJen said:
robsker said:
HuskerJen said:
robsker said:
JTrain said:
As much as I hate to dedhoarse , and I don't even necessarily dislike the guy, but it is really surprising to see how poorly his recruits turned out, at least considering the hype he had as a great recruiter.
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I'm with you --- nothing personal against Callahan --- but, he was not a good recruiter --- the proof is plain to see already, few --- very few -- of his recruits have been drafted
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Our former coach's legacy is one of sheer, complete and utter failure...that we agree on.

Where we disagree is on the cause...

You think he wasn't a good recruiter because of what we saw in the draft this past weekend.

I know our former coach was a very good recruiter...he simply sucked at player development.

How many times did we, as fans, see a player come in, and under the instruction our former head coach, get worse as his career progressed?

How many times did we see the team, as the season went on, get worse under the former head coach?

With Nebraska '05-'07, "talent" was never the issue...lack of player development was, among a myriad of other issues but I digress, and that's what we're seeing now the fruits of four years of almost no player development.
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HuskerJen:

We don't entirely disagree --- I too think he was terrible (well, he and his staff were collectively terrible) at developing players. But... he has a poor recruiter.... or, to be fair... a modest recruiter too. I defend that by saying that even with bad coaching true NFL types by sheer talent alone get drafted --- we just had very, very little of such talent.
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Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from...

If the guys that were drafted this year, and/or signed free agent contracts, actually make an NFL roster...that will go a long way in determing just how much talent was really there.

Consider this: Under Bo, Suh's draft status has skyrockted and he's now about as close to a top 10 pick as you can get. I've heard speculation that Suh might, just might, be the #1 pick next year. Granted a lot of things need to go right for that to happen, but the potential is certainly there.

Can you honestly say that if the previous coaching staff was still here that Suh would be the player he is now? Methinks not. Player development is absolutely crucial.
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I agree a 100% that the difference Bo, and his staff --- these guys all seem really top notch --- makes is huge in player development. You are correct Suh would not be as far along, so soon as he is now. Bo and staff took NFL talent in Suh and made him even more of an impact player (how much was Bo/staff and how much was natural development is hard to say, but, like you, I give Bo/staff kudos here --- they helped a great deal I surmose).

This is why NU is much better now than two years ago --- development.

 
JTrain said:
Jen and Fro, I think you might be overemphasizing the importance of player development. The fact is, a whole lot of whether someone has NFL type talent is determined the day he's conceived (aka genetics). That's not to say hard work, determination, film study, weight training, etc. doesn't factor in, but the biggest thing is if the kid has the physical tools.

Callahan probably wasn't a very good player developer, but I don't think that makes a whole lot of difference on whether his kids are drafted in the NFL. Look at the kids that are made into great college players who accomplish big things during their college careers, but never really get much of a look in the pros (Graham Harrell might be a good example). Mike Leach seems to be pretty good at player development, but that didn't seem to do much to help Harrell in the NFL draft. On the other hand, you have the case of Josh Freeman, who had an absolutely horrible coach in charge of him (Prince) and most would agree did not have a great college career. And yet he goes in the first round!

My point being, four to five years in college football generally does not make or break whether the player is talented enough to get a serious chance in the NFL. So the fact that Callahan's players are not getting drafted is more of a sign that he isn't a good talent scout/recruiter than a sign that he isn't a good player developer.
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I am with you, either you have it or you dont. But the diffence between draft pick and no draft pick can be the development of those skills that your momma and daddy gave you :)

 
Callahan's legacy includes guys like Shawn Watson, a well-stocked O-line, a smooth offensive system that produced guys such as Taylor and Ganz, and incredibly sluggish defensive play. He had success for two years, especially in that 3rd season when we took many top 10 teams to the wire, but will always be remembered for being at the head of the giant implosion of '07.

Let the bitterness end already. Take the good with the bad; we are where we are now, and it's partly thanks to him. In the end he couldn't cut it as the helmsman of this team and take us to the promised land, so that'll be up to Bo. Don't lie: before the implosion, we looked pretty darn promising.

 
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
Vince from ShamWOW said:
This sums things up pretty well.

http://www.huskerlocker.com/blogs/view/bid...he_callahan_era
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That article is drivel and full of assumptions and libel (or is it slander). I don't like what the guy did more than anyone else, but at least I try being fair to him in retrospect.
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Libel is...
An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community. Libel
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So you tell me, what exactly did the guy say in his blog that fits the legal definition?

 
HuskerJen said:
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
Vince from ShamWOW said:
This sums things up pretty well.

http://www.huskerlocker.com/blogs/view/bid...he_callahan_era
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That article is drivel and full of assumptions and libel (or is it slander). I don't like what the guy did more than anyone else, but at least I try being fair to him in retrospect.
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Libel is...
An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community. Libel
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So you tell me, what exactly did the guy say in his blog that fits the legal definition?
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First of all, as a former Head Coach of the University of Nebraska in this region he would be considered a public figure therefore free of libel especially in a website blog.

Secondly, I would say that is exactly what happened during the Callahan era.

 
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I pretty much stopped memorizing all the stats I could get my hands on after I moved out of state back in 1990, but we rarely led the league (Big-8) in NFLers..Usually we seemed to fall behind OU and Colorado every year..I'd guess we may have fared a little better in the mid to late '90's, but even the guys that got drafted..seemed to have peaked durring their college years.

You even talk to guys on those older teams, and we rarely had the most talented teams..We were just spoiled with a coach with some mighty great assistants that were better than probably anyone at getting the most production out of the least amount of talent..Getting the players to want to go through walls for you..

Looks like we may be getting that back again.

We'll probably never be able to replicate history..we're not going to be able to make sudden discoveries in the Training Table/Weight Program/Substance Enhancement that haven't already been caught up with by other programs..But still..this is entertainment..hold on for the great ride.

 
Disagree completely.

Callahan was a good coach and good recruiter, just all to loyal to his assistants.

Just for the upcoming years, I'll list players who have a legitimate shot at being drafted that were recruited by him.

Seniors:

Barry Turner

Ndamukong Suh

Larry Asante (will get drafted because he is a freak of nature physically)

Chris Brooks (if he has the year he is expected to)

Menelik Holt

*Note: We only have 14 seniors on the roster

Juniors:

Keith Williams

Mike Smith

Niles Paul

Mike McNeill

Zac Lee

Eric Hagg

Roy Helu

Quentin Castille

Alex Henery

DJ Jones (if he continues to step up)

Prince Amukamara

Anthony West

Pierre Allen

I can count at least 10 guys on that list, barring nothing odd happening, that will be playing on Sundays without a doubt in my mind.

 
BigWillie said:
Disagree completely.

Callahan was a good coach and good recruiter, just all to loyal to his assistants.

Just for the upcoming years, I'll list players who have a legitimate shot at being drafted that were recruited by him.

Seniors:

Barry Turner

Ndamukong Suh

Larry Asante (will get drafted because he is a freak of nature physically)

Chris Brooks (if he has the year he is expected to)

Menelik Holt

*Note: We only have 14 seniors on the roster

Juniors:

Keith Williams

Mike Smith

Niles Paul

Mike McNeill

Zac Lee

Eric Hagg

Roy Helu

Quentin Castille

Alex Henery

DJ Jones (if he continues to step up)

Prince Amukamara

Anthony West

Pierre Allen

I can count at least 10 guys on that list, barring nothing odd happening, that will be playing on Sundays without a doubt in my mind.
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I'm not sure what you are saying here. If you are saying what I think you are saying, then I must disagree. Just because they are his recruits doesn't mean he should be credited for them getting to the NFL, especially if they are Juniors. If they don't opt for the draft early, and stay for their senior season, that will be 3 full years with Pelini, and at most 2 if they were lucky enough to redshirt (one if they played their Freshman year, since last year they were all sophomores). 3>2, therefore Pelini should get credit. And if Suh dominates next year, that should be thanks to Pelini too, because Cosgrove was nowhere near as good as the Pelini's.

 
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I'm not sure what you are saying here. If you are saying what I think you are saying, then I must disagree.
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I believe he is saying that Billy C was a good coach and a good recruiter he just surrounded himself with some jokers. Then he wouldn’t get rid of those jokers and it cost him his job. I also believe he listed players that Callahan brought in that have a chance to make in the NFL thus saying that he brought in decent talent when he was here and was standing up for him as a recruiter instead of saying how crappy he was like what was being said in this thread.

Maybe I’m wrong but that is the way I took his post.

Just because they are his recruits doesn't mean he should be credited for them getting to the NFL, especially if they are Juniors. If they don't opt for the draft early, and stay for their senior season, that will be 3 full years with Pelini, and at most 2 if they were lucky enough to redshirt (one if they played their Freshman year, since last year they were all sophomores). 3>2, therefore Pelini should get credit. And if Suh dominates next year, that should be thanks to Pelini too, because Cosgrove was nowhere near as good as the Pelini's.
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So then with this part of the post: Do you give Billy C. credit for Daniel Bullocks, Adam Carriker, Stew Bradley, Chris Patrick, Bo Ruud, Cory Ross, LeKevin Smith, Titus Adams and any other guy that Solich brought in but played at least 2 years under Callahan? I was just wondering because they would fall under this same kind of scenario.

Also who gets credit for Cody Glenn, Murtha, Slauson, Lucky, Swift, Peterson, Steinkuhler, Potter, and “The Golden Boy” Ganz? Does Callahan because he coached them for 3-4 years or does it go to Bo? As far as Suh goes does he count half since he played 2 years for each of them? This is all so confusing to me. :wacko:

 
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BigWillie said:
Disagree completely.

Callahan was a good coach and good recruiter, just all to loyal to his assistants.

Just for the upcoming years, I'll list players who have a legitimate shot at being drafted that were recruited by him.

Seniors:

Barry Turner

Ndamukong Suh

Larry Asante (will get drafted because he is a freak of nature physically)

Chris Brooks (if he has the year he is expected to)

Menelik Holt

*Note: We only have 14 seniors on the roster

Juniors:

Keith Williams

Mike Smith

Niles Paul

Mike McNeill

Zac Lee

Eric Hagg

Roy Helu

Quentin Castille

Alex Henery

DJ Jones (if he continues to step up)

Prince Amukamara

Anthony West

Pierre Allen

I can count at least 10 guys on that list, barring nothing odd happening, that will be playing on Sundays without a doubt in my mind.
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On this list only Suh is certain NFL; Helu is high probability, Castille, Turner and Williams are maybes --- the others are all unlikely. Now, for some, too little has been seen to know (guys like Zac Lee for example)

So, of the 18 players listed, if 5 of them live out a year in the NFL that would be good. And that would be over a two year recruiting period. Such would be below historic NU averages and fringe top 25 at best. If, somehow, a few people really blossom and perhaps we have say 7 or 8 of the 18 make it in the NFL well... that is now top 20ish or so with 3.5 a year making an NFL squad. Either way, the recruiting was neither excellent nor can it be deemed really good --- if really good is defined as top 10-15 and excellent as top 5-7.

 
newearthhusker said:
I'm not sure what you are saying here. If you are saying what I think you are saying, then I must disagree.
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I believe he is saying that Billy C was a good coach and a good recruiter he just surrounded himself with some jokers. Then he wouldn’t get rid of those jokers and it cost him his job. I also believe he listed players that Callahan brought in that have a chance to make in the NFL thus saying that he brought in decent talent when he was here and was standing up for him as a recruiter instead of saying how crappy he was like what was being said in this thread.

Maybe I’m wrong but that is the way I took his post.

Just because they are his recruits doesn't mean he should be credited for them getting to the NFL, especially if they are Juniors. If they don't opt for the draft early, and stay for their senior season, that will be 3 full years with Pelini, and at most 2 if they were lucky enough to redshirt (one if they played their Freshman year, since last year they were all sophomores). 3>2, therefore Pelini should get credit. And if Suh dominates next year, that should be thanks to Pelini too, because Cosgrove was nowhere near as good as the Pelini's.
Click to expand...
So then with this part of the post: Do you give Billy C. credit for Daniel Bullocks, Adam Carriker, Stew Bradley, Chris Patrick, Bo Ruud, Cory Ross, LeKevin Smith, Titus Adams and any other guy that Solich brought in but played at least 2 years under Callahan? I was just wondering because they would fall under this same kind of scenario.

Also who gets credit for Cody Glenn, Murtha, Slauson, Lucky, Swift, Peterson, Steinkuhler, Potter, and “The Golden Boy” Ganz? Does Callahan because he coached them for 3-4 years or does it go to Bo? As far as Suh goes does he count half since he played 2 years for each of them? This is all so confusing to me. :wacko:
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I think Callahan could recruit, he certainly had some good Rivals ratings in his tenure, and I think in some areas he was/is a good coach as Bigwillie mentions. He is considered a very good O-Line coach, heck even Slauson mentioned him as "the best" as far as O-Line Coaches go when asked about rejoining Bill as a NYJ. I think Bill struggles when it comes to running an entire team. His repitition style practices may work well for QB's or even offenses in general, but he didn't ensure all positions were developing in the proper manner. Coupled with the practice style, he didn't supplement what he wasn't allowing to get done in practice by getting coaches that were very strong teachers. Hence the team seemed to regress through out his tenure. He went after JUCOs way too often, even after the 2005 class where you figured he would to help change over the Offensive Personnel, overall he took 28 JUCOs out of 101 players signed for nearly 28% of his recruited players. He chose a player strength and conditioning development idealogy that was based upon old Big X ideaology and the team never developed the speed necessary to play in the Big XII these days. Maybe the most damning tale is how many draft picks he produced. Below is the average per year under each coach's watch, note that I didn't give them credit or discredit for the first draft in their tenures since those drafts were the by products of the season prior and the previous regime.

3.75 Callahan

5.00 Solich

6.72 Osborne

5.43 Devaney

 
newearthhusker said:
I'm not sure what you are saying here. If you are saying what I think you are saying, then I must disagree.
Click to expand...
I believe he is saying that Billy C was a good coach and a good recruiter he just surrounded himself with some jokers. Then he wouldn’t get rid of those jokers and it cost him his job. I also believe he listed players that Callahan brought in that have a chance to make in the NFL thus saying that he brought in decent talent when he was here and was standing up for him as a recruiter instead of saying how crappy he was like what was being said in this thread.

Maybe I’m wrong but that is the way I took his post.

Just because they are his recruits doesn't mean he should be credited for them getting to the NFL, especially if they are Juniors. If they don't opt for the draft early, and stay for their senior season, that will be 3 full years with Pelini, and at most 2 if they were lucky enough to redshirt (one if they played their Freshman year, since last year they were all sophomores). 3>2, therefore Pelini should get credit. And if Suh dominates next year, that should be thanks to Pelini too, because Cosgrove was nowhere near as good as the Pelini's.
Click to expand...
So then with this part of the post: Do you give Billy C. credit for Daniel Bullocks, Adam Carriker, Stew Bradley, Chris Patrick, Bo Ruud, Cory Ross, LeKevin Smith, Titus Adams and any other guy that Solich brought in but played at least 2 years under Callahan? I was just wondering because they would fall under this same kind of scenario.

Also who gets credit for Cody Glenn, Murtha, Slauson, Lucky, Swift, Peterson, Steinkuhler, Potter, and “The Golden Boy” Ganz? Does Callahan because he coached them for 3-4 years or does it go to Bo? As far as Suh goes does he count half since he played 2 years for each of them? This is all so confusing to me. :wacko:
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I think credit should be given to which coach the player blossomed under, and not so much how long like I said before. I mean, we can all flat out agree that Pelini is a better HC compared to Callahan, but Callahan still had some players blossom under his tenure (like Carriker). Suh didn't truly blossom till Pelini came along, so I think it is fair to give the credit to Pelini.

 
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