40 times verses the 10 yard "burst"

For those who haven't seen the Alexander play or have just forgotten ..



Michael Irvin's first show of '4th and Long' had some great insight about a 40 time. Michael said he didn't care about what some guys ran in some spandex with track shoes on, he only cared about what you ran when you put those pads on. That and he only cared how much you could sustain that speed over the course of a game.

On that show Michael had a couple little speedsters and a track athlete, but none of them could break the high 4.5's in pads.

The 40 yard dash as it is done in workouts is absolutely and completely worthless.

 
BigWillie said:
For those who haven't seen the Alexander play or have just forgotten ..

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Naw, not worthless, just overhyped. HuskerJen has it right. 40 times are not entirely meaningless. It’s just another stat to consider.

Besides, there is a correlation between a kid’s speed in spandex with track shoes on, and how fast he runs with pads. And it wouldn’t be practical to time players in pads. Some would game the system with minimal pads and lightweight shoes.

 
nuance said:
For those who haven't seen the Alexander play or have just forgotten ..

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Yes, worthless. When a player puts on spandex to run a fly route versus an NFL caliber CB, you let me know. Then it may be worth something to me.

Even more worthless because this only measures straight line speed. The only time you would see a player using straight line speed is in a breakaway event such as a long run or an INT return. However, those things happen in the NFL infrequently.

You want to measure someones speed, get out the 20 yard shuttle or 3 cone drill. Those are actual drills that show change of direction quickness which is something needed by all NFL players.

And no, you would not get to cheat the system if equipment is provided by the league, the same as it is at the combine. Simple solution.

 
Thank you BigWillie, I needed another voice of reason in this debate. Yes they 40 can give one an idea, of the speed of a kid, but the way it is tested is absolutely BS. Like I said they are in track shoes and nothing but spandex, trust me I have been there.

The shuttle run test, which involves an individuals burst, change of direction, and getting back to top speed is way more of an important test and time than the 40 when evaluating football prospects. This implies to all positions, whereas the 40 may "help" evaluate WR, RB, and DB for breakaway speed, the shuttle and pro agility times are way more important and looked at by coaches and scouts.

It's like the bench press vs. clean/dead lifts arguement, guess which is looked at more closely by coaches and S & C coaches.

 
I can't find the article on HuskerExtra but Boyd Epply a few weeks ago mentioned the 40 myth in a interview. Since he pretty munch invented the strength & conditioning program for the whole nation I believe him. I read somewhere that there is over 40 Heads of strength & conditoning programs that have worked for him at Nebraska

 
if 40 times made a good football player, the Raiders would win the superbowl every year. Overall, my thoughts are that any of the gym shorts workouts need to be placed way behind the game tape.

On that player list there are several WRs, and only Moss is a game changer on there, the others are average at best. And the best WR of all time doesn't make those lists.

 
Red Storm Brewing said:
Thank you BigWillie, I needed another voice of reason in this debate. Yes they 40 can give one an idea, of the speed of a kid, but the way it is tested is absolutely BS. Like I said they are in track shoes and nothing but spandex, trust me I have been there.

The shuttle run test, which involves an individuals burst, change of direction, and getting back to top speed is way more of an important test and time than the 40 when evaluating football prospects. This implies to all positions, whereas the 40 may "help" evaluate WR, RB, and DB for breakaway speed, the shuttle and pro agility times are way more important and looked at by coaches and scouts.

It's like the bench press vs. clean/dead lifts arguement, guess which is looked at more closely by coaches and S & C coaches.
Click to expand...
Agreed, 40 means nothing if you can't get past the person in front of you.

 
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strigori said:
if 40 times made a good football player, the Raiders would win the superbowl every year. Overall, my thoughts are that any of the gym shorts workouts need to be placed way behind the game tape.

On that player list there are several WRs, and only Moss is a game changer on there, the others are average at best. And the best WR of all time doesn't make those lists.
Click to expand...
Jerry Rice had a good 40 time? He didn't have a good one at the combine but he was still fast.

 
redout22 said:
strigori said:
if 40 times made a good football player, the Raiders would win the superbowl every year. Overall, my thoughts are that any of the gym shorts workouts need to be placed way behind the game tape.

On that player list there are several WRs, and only Moss is a game changer on there, the others are average at best. And the best WR of all time doesn't make those lists.
Click to expand...
Jerry Rice had a good 40 time? He didn't have a good one at the combine but he was still fast.
Click to expand...
Rice was a 4.5 or 4.6 40.

 
strigori said:
redout22 said:
strigori said:
if 40 times made a good football player, the Raiders would win the superbowl every year. Overall, my thoughts are that any of the gym shorts workouts need to be placed way behind the game tape.

On that player list there are several WRs, and only Moss is a game changer on there, the others are average at best. And the best WR of all time doesn't make those lists.
Click to expand...
Jerry Rice had a good 40 time? He didn't have a good one at the combine but he was still fast.
Click to expand...
Rice was a 4.5 or 4.6 40.
Click to expand...
Rice ran a 4.7 at the combine.

 
BigWillie said:
For those who haven't seen the Alexander play or have just forgotten ..

Click to expand...

Irwin's probably just repeating some great soundbite he overheard.

So let's see if I got this right:

1) There's few (if any) interception or kickoff returns in the NFL.

2) Running and timing the 40 yard dash has NO value what-so-ever..Because everyone runs them in spandex..or at least could.

I don't think anyone here has stated the 40 is more valuable than the 10..the shuttle, or the pro agility run..but "worthless? maybe Worth Less, but not without any kind of value.

It's pretty safe to assume no one on the HS level tries to get their best time while in pads..shoot, I almost didn't even wear anything but my jockstrap..I even tried running it barefoot the last time I was timed. (I also removed my thighpads and kneepads at halftime durring a game against Broken Bow so I could help out a little better in pass coverage...

So..all things being pretty much equal..(Good hands..field vision) Who would you rather run back Kickoffs? the kid that got timed in his spandex in the 40 at 4.45 or the kid that ran it in 6.0 when he was in spandex?

 
HUSKER 37 said:
Irwin's probably just repeating some great soundbite he overheard.

So let's see if I got this right:

1) There's few (if any) interception or kickoff returns in the NFL.

2) Running and timing the 40 yard dash has NO value what-so-ever..Because everyone runs them in spandex..or at least could.

I don't think anyone here has stated the 40 is more valuable than the 10..the shuttle, or the pro agility run..but "worthless? maybe Worth Less, but not without any kind of value.

It's pretty safe to assume no one on the HS level tries to get their best time while in pads..shoot, I almost didn't even wear anything but my jockstrap..I even tried running it barefoot the last time I was timed. (I also removed my thighpads and kneepads at halftime durring a game against Broken Bow so I could help out a little better in pass coverage...

So..all things being pretty much equal..(Good hands..field vision) Who would you rather run back Kickoffs? the kid that got timed in his spandex in the 40 at 4.45 or the kid that ran it in 6.0 when he was in spandex?
Click to expand...
1.) Yes, there are few if you decide to only read what you want to read. If you read more closely, you know that I am talking about returns that hit the open field. Otherwise, you are getting back into quickness measurements (i.e., 20 yard shuttle, 3 cone drill).

2.) Yes, it has no value whatsoever. Even our current training staff, as well as the old one puts absolutely no value on the 40 yard time. I don't think Dobson even timed for the 40 this winter, IIRC. Most training staffs do not even care, because it has no on the field value. That is besides eye candy to a few off the field viewers.

And your last paragraph is just pure silliness. Why even write that?

 
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BigWillie said:
HUSKER 37 said:
Irwin's probably just repeating some great soundbite he overheard.

So let's see if I got this right:

1) There's few (if any) interception or kickoff returns in the NFL.

2) Running and timing the 40 yard dash has NO value what-so-ever..Because everyone runs them in spandex..or at least could.

I don't think anyone here has stated the 40 is more valuable than the 10..the shuttle, or the pro agility run..but "worthless? maybe Worth Less, but not without any kind of value.

It's pretty safe to assume no one on the HS level tries to get their best time while in pads..shoot, I almost didn't even wear anything but my jockstrap..I even tried running it barefoot the last time I was timed. (I also removed my thighpads and kneepads at halftime durring a game against Broken Bow so I could help out a little better in pass coverage...

So..all things being pretty much equal..(Good hands..field vision) Who would you rather run back Kickoffs? the kid that got timed in his spandex in the 40 at 4.45 or the kid that ran it in 6.0 when he was in spandex?
Click to expand...
1.) Yes, there are few if you decide to only read what you want to read. If you read more closely, you know that I am talking about returns that hit the open field. Otherwise, you are getting back into quickness measurements (i.e., 20 yard shuttle, 3 cone drill).

2.) Yes, it has no value whatsoever. Even our current training staff, as well as the old one puts absolutely no value on the 40 yard time. I don't think Dobson even timed for the 40 this winter, IIRC. Most training staffs do not even care, because it has no on the field value. That is besides eye candy to a few off the field viewers.

And your last paragraph is just pure silliness. Why even write that?
Click to expand...
So what sprints are they doing to evaluate then?

LJS - Pelini: Helu's looked tremendous

Pelini: Helu's looked tremendousBy BRIAN CHRISTOPHERSON / The Associated Press

Saturday, Mar 28, 2009 - 07:05:38 pm CDT

A guy gains a little weight and it’s all the talk. So it goes for Roy Helu, who showed up to spring football looking more Hulkish, toting 222 pounds, 15 more than he had at the end of last season.

For any Husker backers worried the extra bulk might slow the running back and take the hurdling out of his game, the words of Bo Pelini after Saturday’s practice should ease concern.

The Husker head coach was heavy on praise for Helu, saying he has looked tremendous through three spring practices.

“He’s really picked up where he left off,” Pelini said. “I think he’s bigger, he’s faster. I think he’s feeling good. He looks like he’s smaller and he’s actually carrying more weight. Obviously the strength staff did a tremendous job and you got to give credit to Roy. He worked his tail off and it’s paying off for him.”

Coming off a team-best 803 rushing yards as a sophomore last year, Helu recently ran the fastest sprint time he’s had at NU.

“He looks pretty special,” Pelini said.

 
A straightaway 40 yd, run in spandex and track shoes—utterly worthless.

Our coaches run them in a serpentine pattern now.

 
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