Case FOR Watson staying

huskerpilot

huskerpilot

Special Teams Player
Let me start by saying I'm not a Watson supporter or hater. .

1. Skills: There are 2 types of offensive attacks in football, run and pass. Right now a majority of our players were recruited for an NFL style pass offense with speed running. Not necessarily a bad choice (I would personally prefer power running), except for one problem. In a passing offense, your production is as good as your quarterback. Unfortunately recruiting the pewees hasn't panned out for us as well as we might have hoped in that position. Simple: We can't pass because our QB's aren't good enough. Green is too green, and Lee is always a few feet off every pass, making the receiver stop in his routes. It causes drops, annuls big plays, and becomes a significant interception threat.

"Fine", Watson says, "we'll run the ball"; again, wrong personnel. Helu, as much as I love the guy, is not really a power runner. He's shifty, and does great any time he can get a descent block or gets into open space. Our O-Line does a *descent* job giving the QB time to pass (which we can't do), but doesn't appear to be strong enough to open up good lanes for Helu. Burkhead will probably be a descent power runner in the future, but again, but like Green is still just a freshman.

2. Callahan: I have a hard time believing that our offense in 06 & 07 (which was honestly pretty good), is a direct result of Callahan. I just can't give him that much credit. I remember complaining about some play calling back then too. However, the offense performed. With guys like Swift and descent (not great) quarterbacks we consistently had one of the best offenses in the nation. By saying Watson needs to go, you're giving Callahan a lot of credit.

3. Alternatives: What is SW supposed to do different? I hear so many people saying he should have run more misdirection last night, or thrown a pass play for a first down on our last possession. When he calls a pass play, it gets intercepted, when he runs the ball, we get stuffed against any legit defense. Trick plays? Really? Misdirection? The gamble may have paid off once, but if we can't even pull off a simple pass, do you really think he wants to risk trick plays?

I agree, its his job as a OC to make sure the O works, and so yes the responsibility does fall to him, but given what he has to work with, I'm not sure I'm ready to call for his head yet. Pelini has a lot more at stake here than any of us do, I'm sure he'll make the right call. If he fires I'm I'll totally support it, but if he keeps him, I'm also not going to throw the team under the bus. My two cents.

 
MCAT800 said:
Watson stays, unless he leaves on his own accord.
Click to expand...

Maybe we can throw a sweater vest on him and shop him around the Big Televen.. :dunno

watson.jpg
jim-tressel.jpg


 
huskerpilot said:
Let me start by saying I'm not a Watson supporter or hater. .

1. Skills: There are 2 types of offensive attacks in football, run and pass. Right now a majority of our players were recruited for an NFL style pass offense with speed running. Not necessarily a bad choice (I would personally prefer power running), except for one problem. In a passing offense, your production is as good as your quarterback. Unfortunately recruiting the pewees hasn't panned out for us as well as we might have hoped in that position. Simple: We can't pass because our QB's aren't good enough. Green is too green, and Lee is always a few feet off every pass, making the receiver stop in his routes. It causes drops, annuls big plays, and becomes a significant interception threat.

"Fine", Watson says, "we'll run the ball"; again, wrong personnel. Helu, as much as I love the guy, is not really a power runner. He's shifty, and does great any time he can get a descent block or gets into open space. Our O-Line does a *descent* job giving the QB time to pass (which we can't do), but doesn't appear to be strong enough to open up good lanes for Helu. Burkhead will probably be a descent power runner in the future, but again, but like Green is still just a freshman.

2. Callahan: I have a hard time believing that our offense in 06 & 07 (which was honestly pretty good), is a direct result of Callahan. I just can't give him that much credit. I remember complaining about some play calling back then too. However, the offense performed. With guys like Swift and descent (not great) quarterbacks we consistently had one of the best offenses in the nation. By saying Watson needs to go, you're giving Callahan a lot of credit.

3. Alternatives: What is SW supposed to do different? I hear so many people saying he should have run more misdirection last night, or thrown a pass play for a first down on our last possession. When he calls a pass play, it gets intercepted, when he runs the ball, we get stuffed against any legit defense. Trick plays? Really? Misdirection? The gamble may have paid off once, but if we can't even pull off a simple pass, do you really think he wants to risk trick plays?

I agree, its his job as a OC to make sure the O works, and so yes the responsibility does fall to him, but given what he has to work with, I'm not sure I'm ready to call for his head yet. Pelini has a lot more at stake here than any of us do, I'm sure he'll make the right call. If he fires I'm I'll totally support it, but if he keeps him, I'm also not going to throw the team under the bus. My two cents.

When you say this in summary "I agree, its his job as a OC to make sure the O works, and so yes the responsibility does fall to him, but given what he has to work with, I'm not sure I'm ready to call for his head yet.
Click to expand...
You are being disingenuous. The offense has stats that emabarass the program. Me thinks its not at all the quality of players but the quality of the coaching. No other quality team looks as ugly as NU, most of our ugliness stems from a complete ineptitude in schemeing player mismatches. Just as our defense outplays other offenses, the offensive side should be performing at or near the same level, but cant with a game coach like watson.

No passses to TE last night...geeesh...the details of the entire season are down right disgusting to anyone who saw the games reads the stats and has any knowledge of the players skill sets.

If one were to go out on a limb to really search for a rational reason for this, one could take the high road, claiming its the players fault....thats plausible denyability, an attempt to try and cover for a terrible year of production, or one could take the low road and suggest something much worse.

The data of the season is reflected in the situational stimulus response of play calling to scheme situations.

Frankly only a brain dead fan could replay any game and not recognize how poorly coached up the players were for the situations presented.

Its not on the players,its on the coaches. Watson and Cotton should be the first to go, gilmore next....

Watson showed no creativity, no coaching up, and no adaptability, other than to flip back and forth finding some identity he had not prepared himself to find. His schemes illustrated inept planning for a mediocre performance.

He did little substitution of OL all year looking for winning combinations, he did nothing for the team and the teams offsensive production proves it. The data along with the film contain the information....so stop kidding yourselves that this guy has value beyond what the data show.

 
You have to run an offense that fits the players that we have. I don't think that Watson does a good job with it. I'm also not convinced that we're getting the best players on the field. I gotta believe that we have some good players on offense, but maybe not Watson's offense.

I think he needs to go.

 
This is how coaching coups start. People begin asking themselves the question, when do you start believing the stats are what they say you are? For Watson will it be tomorrow, next week, next season? Remember it took him a third of a season last year to find something that worked. For the second straight year NU has had to 'redefine' itself.

I'm not quite ready to scream for Watson's head, but I wouldn't bat an eye if Pelini had a "Shawn, come into my office" moment.

 
dawhuskerkc said:
You are being disingenuous. The offense has stats that emabarass the program. Me thinks its not at all the quality of players but the quality of the coaching. No other quality team looks as ugly as NU, most of our ugliness stems from a complete ineptitude in schemeing player mismatches. Just as our defense outplays other offenses, the offensive side should be performing at or near the same level, but cant with a game coach like watson.

No passses to TE last night...geeesh...the details of the entire season are down right disgusting to anyone who saw the games reads the stats and has any knowledge of the players skill sets.

If one were to go out on a limb to really search for a rational reason for this, one could take the high road, claiming its the players fault....thats plausible denyability, an attempt to try and cover for a terrible year of production, or one could take the low road and suggest something much worse.

The data of the season is reflected in the situational stimulus response of play calling to scheme situations.

Frankly only a brain dead fan could replay any game and not recognize how poorly coached up the players were for the situations presented.

Its not on the players,its on the coaches. Watson and Cotton should be the first to go, gilmore next....

Watson showed no creativity, no coaching up, and no adaptability, other than to flip back and forth finding some identity he had not prepared himself to find. His schemes illustrated inept planning for a mediocre performance.

He did little substitution of OL all year looking for winning combinations, he did nothing for the team and the teams offsensive production proves it. The data along with the film contain the information....so stop kidding yourselves that this guy has value beyond what the data show.
Click to expand...
Well if any braindead fan can really tell all that so easily, them I'm sure Pelini can too and he won't be around next year.

 
I've got to say that the biggest problem that I see with this offense is that the receivers can't get open. Tight ends are good, but you can't rely on tight end play. We can all name teams that had great tight ends, but name me one team that hung thier hat on throws to the tight end. The tight end was always that extra element that made good defenses harder to defend. Backs coming out of the backfield, i.e. Brian Westbrook, create nightmares for people too, but w/o a good wide out, well, check out the Eagles offense year in and year out.

The biggest case for Watson to stay is that we were VERY green at WR this year. We didn't realize how much we would miss Nate and Todd. Let's face it, if they were still on the team, we might be unbeaten and taking a trip to play the Crimson Tide.

Nate and Todd simply know how to get open. They saw weaknesses in the D and exploited them.

We saw a little flash of Brandon Kinne last night in the late going. Niles has shown flashes as well. If those guys develop into go-to guys and other guys work hard enough to push them, well, maybe the O will take a major leap forward.

You guys have any ideas on who might be ready to step up after an intense offseason? Maybe a recruit that you guys think might come up big quick?

 
dawhuskerkc said:
huskerpilot said:
Let me start by saying I'm not a Watson supporter or hater. .

1. Skills: There are 2 types of offensive attacks in football, run and pass. Right now a majority of our players were recruited for an NFL style pass offense with speed running. Not necessarily a bad choice (I would personally prefer power running), except for one problem. In a passing offense, your production is as good as your quarterback. Unfortunately recruiting the pewees hasn't panned out for us as well as we might have hoped in that position. Simple: We can't pass because our QB's aren't good enough. Green is too green, and Lee is always a few feet off every pass, making the receiver stop in his routes. It causes drops, annuls big plays, and becomes a significant interception threat.

"Fine", Watson says, "we'll run the ball"; again, wrong personnel. Helu, as much as I love the guy, is not really a power runner. He's shifty, and does great any time he can get a descent block or gets into open space. Our O-Line does a *descent* job giving the QB time to pass (which we can't do), but doesn't appear to be strong enough to open up good lanes for Helu. Burkhead will probably be a descent power runner in the future, but again, but like Green is still just a freshman.

2. Callahan: I have a hard time believing that our offense in 06 & 07 (which was honestly pretty good), is a direct result of Callahan. I just can't give him that much credit. I remember complaining about some play calling back then too. However, the offense performed. With guys like Swift and descent (not great) quarterbacks we consistently had one of the best offenses in the nation. By saying Watson needs to go, you're giving Callahan a lot of credit.

3. Alternatives: What is SW supposed to do different? I hear so many people saying he should have run more misdirection last night, or thrown a pass play for a first down on our last possession. When he calls a pass play, it gets intercepted, when he runs the ball, we get stuffed against any legit defense. Trick plays? Really? Misdirection? The gamble may have paid off once, but if we can't even pull off a simple pass, do you really think he wants to risk trick plays?

I agree, its his job as a OC to make sure the O works, and so yes the responsibility does fall to him, but given what he has to work with, I'm not sure I'm ready to call for his head yet. Pelini has a lot more at stake here than any of us do, I'm sure he'll make the right call. If he fires I'm I'll totally support it, but if he keeps him, I'm also not going to throw the team under the bus. My two cents.

When you say this in summary "I agree, its his job as a OC to make sure the O works, and so yes the responsibility does fall to him, but given what he has to work with, I'm not sure I'm ready to call for his head yet.
Click to expand...
You are being disingenuous. The offense has stats that emabarass the program. Me thinks its not at all the quality of players but the quality of the coaching. No other quality team looks as ugly as NU, most of our ugliness stems from a complete ineptitude in schemeing player mismatches. Just as our defense outplays other offenses, the offensive side should be performing at or near the same level, but cant with a game coach like watson.

No passses to TE last night...geeesh...the details of the entire season are down right disgusting to anyone who saw the games reads the stats and has any knowledge of the players skill sets.

If one were to go out on a limb to really search for a rational reason for this, one could take the high road, claiming its the players fault....thats plausible denyability, an attempt to try and cover for a terrible year of production, or one could take the low road and suggest something much worse.

The data of the season is reflected in the situational stimulus response of play calling to scheme situations.

Frankly only a brain dead fan could replay any game and not recognize how poorly coached up the players were for the situations presented.

Its not on the players,its on the coaches. Watson and Cotton should be the first to go, gilmore next....

Watson showed no creativity, no coaching up, and no adaptability, other than to flip back and forth finding some identity he had not prepared himself to find. His schemes illustrated inept planning for a mediocre performance.

He did little substitution of OL all year looking for winning combinations, he did nothing for the team and the teams offsensive production proves it. The data along with the film contain the information....so stop kidding yourselves that this guy has value beyond what the data show.
Click to expand...

So what about all the other success he has had throughout his time as oc. Was it just luck or do you think maybe just maybe he has a general idea of what he is doing. One bad season does not erase years of success. This offense will improve it is very young and lost a lot of players most of them return next year and we have a pretty good recruting class comming in.

 
huskerpilot said:
2. Callahan: I have a hard time believing that our offense in 06 & 07 (which was honestly pretty good), is a direct result of Callahan. I just can't give him that much credit. I remember complaining about some play calling back then too. However, the offense performed. With guys like Swift and descent (not great) quarterbacks we consistently had one of the best offenses in the nation. By saying Watson needs to go, you're giving Callahan a lot of credit.
Click to expand...
Hey fellas, first post here, really dig about 25 percent of the posters...Good discussion on wats...

I've debated long and hard about Wats, and I believe I can state a pretty good case for him to go. I think the offensive ineptitude we're observing is a direct result of Wats being removed from the Callahan umbilical cord. In contrast to the above statement, I will give credit to Callahan for the offensive success of our team the last 4 years. He was brought in here to redefine our football team, and as we've witnessed for better or worse, he succeeded. We had an offense that put up all kinds of gaudy passing stats...the problem was he wasnt cut out to be a head coach, maybe an offensive coordinator, but definitely not a head coach.

So, we reverse course and a hire a defensive coordinator as head coach and figure "the offense aint broke so dont fix it". Well, like it or not we're now seeing the after effects of not having ol' Billy C at the helm of the offense.

A year ago I might have agreed with the argument that Bo needed to get his offensive recruits in place, but I dont buy it now. Evidence: How else do you explain a defense going from bottom 20 to top 20 in 2 years other that coaching? Likewise, how do you explain an offense going from top to bottom other than coaching? We're definitely not getting the cream of the crop in terms of offensive recruits, but were not scraping the bottom of the barrel either.

How many of us were saying we had no talent on Defense 2 years ago? "Talent" is not near as important as recognizing your potential.

 
tmfr15 said:
I've got to say that the biggest problem that I see with this offense is that the receivers can't get open. Tight ends are good, but you can't rely on tight end play. We can all name teams that had great tight ends, but name me one team that hung thier hat on throws to the tight end. The tight end was always that extra element that made good defenses harder to defend. Backs coming out of the backfield, i.e. Brian Westbrook, create nightmares for people too, but w/o a good wide out, well, check out the Eagles offense year in and year out.

The biggest case for Watson to stay is that we were VERY green at WR this year. We didn't realize how much we would miss Nate and Todd. Let's face it, if they were still on the team, we might be unbeaten and taking a trip to play the Crimson Tide.

Nate and Todd simply know how to get open. They saw weaknesses in the D and exploited them.

We saw a little flash of Brandon Kinne last night in the late going. Niles has shown flashes as well. If those guys develop into go-to guys and other guys work hard enough to push them, well, maybe the O will take a major leap forward.

You guys have any ideas on who might be ready to step up after an intense offseason? Maybe a recruit that you guys think might come up big quick?
Click to expand...
This is the case. Moreover, defenses don't worry about our WRs as a threat, and can take the TE out of the game as a result. I miss Nate and Todd.

In response to the above post, I think it is partly the case, but in a different sense: Callahan gave us some great lines while he was here. Cotton, well. I have to wonder if things keep getting worse how we will justify keeping him around.

I'm thankful to Cally for bequeathing us the offense that he did. Watson is a part of that. Funny thing is people want him to go and cut all remaining ties to an offense that was being built into something great when Cotton is the one to blame for the line completely falling apart. And there it's not even a matter of "well, the O line is not performing, and Barney is the OL coach." It's Barney coming out and saying "psh, screw the previous staff teaching things like TECHNIQUE to these guys." The previous HC was not the right man for the program, but they knew what the hell they were doing on offense.

 
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The plain simple fact of the matter is... I've seen teams with a hell of a lot less talent play a hell of a lot better...

Green could be a star by now, given a good coach, an offense that doesn't take a 3 year player to learn, and a O-line that has a coach that can actually put a line together and get them to play together. Every one of our linemen would thrive with better coaching, they are all athletic and huge.

Bo took a bottom of the barrel defense and now look at them. I don't think anyone would argue the difference is coaching. Watsons record as a OC is not good and will not be. Has Cotton ever coached an O-line and the offese got better???? not that I can find!

 
Disagree that Green could be a star by now. A MUCH more talented prospect in Matt Barkley in a terrific system and surrounding cast, is far from a star right now. You're talking about a decent true freshman QB recruit. The fact that he isn't a star sure as heck isn't because of our system.

 
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