FInal Shake Out

[AR Husker Fan]

no chance OSU and Michigan are split up. also unlikely Michigan and Michigan State are split up. Northwestern is further west than Indiana, so that wouldn't make much sense either. anyways i like the idea of 4 groups of 4 teams in the Big Ten. then there is a 4 team 'miniature playoff' for the conference title.

From the Big Ten Blog write on ESPN.

"Division alignment: The Big Ten also must figure out divisions in the coming months. Delany listed three main criteria for sorting them out: competitive fairness, maintenance of rivalries and geography. He stressed that competitive fairness is the No. 1 priority, which I believe to be the correct approach. Geography shouldn't determine divisions. You don't want another Big 12 South scenario. "

Not saying they will split OSU/UM but what other options? Sending PSU to the "west" doesn't make sense but perhaps that is the only option. Personally I don't see why they can't be in separate divisions and still play yearly.

I'm not sure that competitive fairness is actually what should be the prime criteria. If the Big 12 showed anything, it's that the power shifts from one division to another over time - and back - and that teams can rise and fall over the period of a few years. What's "competitive fairness" in 2011 could be an unbalanced conference in 2021.

 

[Nexus]

no chance OSU and Michigan are split up. also unlikely Michigan and Michigan State are split up. Northwestern is further west than Indiana, so that wouldn't make much sense either. anyways i like the idea of 4 groups of 4 teams in the Big Ten. then there is a 4 team 'miniature playoff' for the conference title.

From the Big Ten Blog write on ESPN.

"Division alignment: The Big Ten also must figure out divisions in the coming months. Delany listed three main criteria for sorting them out: competitive fairness, maintenance of rivalries and geography. He stressed that competitive fairness is the No. 1 priority, which I believe to be the correct approach. Geography shouldn't determine divisions. You don't want another Big 12 South scenario. "

Not saying they will split OSU/UM but what other options? Sending PSU to the "west" doesn't make sense but perhaps that is the only option. Personally I don't see why they can't be in separate divisions and still play yearly.

I'm not sure that competitive fairness is actually what should be the prime criteria. If the Big 12 showed anything, it's that the power shifts from one division to another over time - and back - and that teams can rise and fall over the period of a few years. What's "competitive fairness" in 2011 could be an unbalanced conference in 2021.

:yeah

BTW, nice Big Ten banner, AR. :thumbs

 

[AR Husker Fan]

BTW, nice Big Ten banner, AR.

Credit to huskeraddict - he came up with the design. I just put 'em up as he created them, and linked them to each school's official site. But glad you like it - we hope it makes our new Big 10 bretheren feel welcome, and helps Husker fans learn of the great traditions and rivalries of what is now the REAL Big 12.

 

[abox03]

no chance OSU and Michigan are split up. also unlikely Michigan and Michigan State are split up. Northwestern is further west than Indiana, so that wouldn't make much sense either. anyways i like the idea of 4 groups of 4 teams in the Big Ten. then there is a 4 team 'miniature playoff' for the conference title.

From the Big Ten Blog write on ESPN.

"Division alignment: The Big Ten also must figure out divisions in the coming months. Delany listed three main criteria for sorting them out: competitive fairness, maintenance of rivalries and geography. He stressed that competitive fairness is the No. 1 priority, which I believe to be the correct approach. Geography shouldn't determine divisions. You don't want another Big 12 South scenario. "

Not saying they will split OSU/UM but what other options? Sending PSU to the "west" doesn't make sense but perhaps that is the only option. Personally I don't see why they can't be in separate divisions and still play yearly.

I'm not sure that competitive fairness is actually what should be the prime criteria. If the Big 12 showed anything, it's that the power shifts from one division to another over time - and back - and that teams can rise and fall over the period of a few years. What's "competitive fairness" in 2011 could be an unbalanced conference in 2021.

you are new to the big ten...so I will show you why I dont think that is right...as it stands now

Big Ten titles won by the would be west team past 20 years (* shared by an east team)

2004 Iowa *Michigan

2002 Iowa *Ohio State

2001 Illinois

2000 NW, Purdue, *Michigan

1999 Wisconsin

1998 Wisconsin *Ohio State, *Michigan

1996 NW *Ohio State

1995 NW

1993 Wisconsin *Ohio State

Only 9 seasons did a would be east team win the title and only 3 (15%) won it without sharing it with an east team. It get's worse the more you go back and then its pretty much only OSU and UM. The big ten is very much an east heavy conference.

EDIT: And notice which two teams are usually the sharing culprit. OSU and UM.

 

[Manhattan]

No.

Great insight!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need more minds like you!

I'm sorry. I just wrote that in a spasm of reorganization headache.

 

[AR Husker Fan]

no chance OSU and Michigan are split up. also unlikely Michigan and Michigan State are split up. Northwestern is further west than Indiana, so that wouldn't make much sense either. anyways i like the idea of 4 groups of 4 teams in the Big Ten. then there is a 4 team 'miniature playoff' for the conference title.

From the Big Ten Blog write on ESPN.

"Division alignment: The Big Ten also must figure out divisions in the coming months. Delany listed three main criteria for sorting them out: competitive fairness, maintenance of rivalries and geography. He stressed that competitive fairness is the No. 1 priority, which I believe to be the correct approach. Geography shouldn't determine divisions. You don't want another Big 12 South scenario. "

Not saying they will split OSU/UM but what other options? Sending PSU to the "west" doesn't make sense but perhaps that is the only option. Personally I don't see why they can't be in separate divisions and still play yearly.

I'm not sure that competitive fairness is actually what should be the prime criteria. If the Big 12 showed anything, it's that the power shifts from one division to another over time - and back - and that teams can rise and fall over the period of a few years. What's "competitive fairness" in 2011 could be an unbalanced conference in 2021.

you are new to the big ten...so I will show you why I dont think that is right...as it stands now

Big Ten titles won by the would be west team past 20 years (* shared by an east team)

2004 Iowa *Michigan

2002 Iowa *Ohio State

2001 Illinois

2000 NW, Purdue, *Michigan

1999 Wisconsin

1998 Wisconsin *Ohio State, *Michigan

1996 NW *Ohio State

1995 NW

1993 Wisconsin *Ohio State

Only 9 seasons did a would be east team win the title and only 3 (15%) won it without sharing it with an east team. It get's worse the more you go back and then its pretty much only OSU and UM. The big ten is very much an east heavy conference.

Oh, I agree that given the history it makes sense; and the Big 10 doesn't want to create a situation in which one division is clearly superior to the other. But expansion can do funny things - again, witness the (former) Big 12.

What I would hate to see is that the conference locks in to divisional setups that, 10 years from now, are out-of-whack. I know they could realign if that happens, but it becomes a lot of trouble.

But you're right - I'm brining a "Big 12" bias and an admitted lack of knowledge of the Big 10, hence the concern.

 

[abox03]

The only problem is that OSU and Michigan have won 34 and 42 big ten titles respectively. The next CLOSEST is Minnesota with 18 whose last one was in 1967........yes 1967.

I have always thought this was going to be a huge problem with expanding the Big Ten. OSU and UM must play each year. If it decides a division, then it is hardly fair for the other 6 teams in the east (cuse, rutgers, indiana, msu, purdue) which I don't think are ever going to compete yearly for the title. Add PSU to the mix and now you have a very very very heavy east division. While the west certainly improves with Nebraska (I cannot bring myself to say NU because thats Northwestern haha), it is just very hard to argue that the west is equal to the east.

Bring in Notre Dame...and that adds another issue all together. ND has rivalaries with MSU, UM, Purdue, Syracuse that moving them to play in the "west" is illogical. Now you add ND to OSU, UM, PSU

haha...

So what to do?

 

[huKSer]

no chance OSU and Michigan are split up. also unlikely Michigan and Michigan State are split up. Northwestern is further west than Indiana, so that wouldn't make much sense either. anyways i like the idea of 4 groups of 4 teams in the Big Ten. then there is a 4 team 'miniature playoff' for the conference title.

From the Big Ten Blog write on ESPN.

"Division alignment: The Big Ten also must figure out divisions in the coming months. Delany listed three main criteria for sorting them out: competitive fairness, maintenance of rivalries and geography. He stressed that competitive fairness is the No. 1 priority, which I believe to be the correct approach. Geography shouldn't determine divisions. You don't want another Big 12 South scenario. "

Not saying they will split OSU/UM but what other options? Sending PSU to the "west" doesn't make sense but perhaps that is the only option. Personally I don't see why they can't be in separate divisions and still play yearly.

I'm not sure that competitive fairness is actually what should be the prime criteria. If the Big 12 showed anything, it's that the power shifts from one division to another over time - and back - and that teams can rise and fall over the period of a few years. What's "competitive fairness" in 2011 could be an unbalanced conference in 2021.

you are new to the big ten...so I will show you why I dont think that is right...as it stands now

Big Ten titles won by the would be west team past 20 years (* shared by an east team)

2004 Iowa *Michigan

2002 Iowa *Ohio State

2001 Illinois

2000 NW, Purdue, *Michigan

1999 Wisconsin

1998 Wisconsin *Ohio State, *Michigan

1996 NW *Ohio State

1995 NW

1993 Wisconsin *Ohio State

Only 9 seasons did a would be east team win the title and only 3 (15%) won it without sharing it with an east team. It get's worse the more you go back and then its pretty much only OSU and UM. The big ten is very much an east heavy conference.

Oh, I agree that given the history it makes sense; and the Big 10 doesn't want to create a situation in which one division is clearly superior to the other. But expansion can do funny things - again, witness the (former) Big 12.

What I would hate to see is that the conference locks in to divisional setups that, 10 years from now, are out-of-whack. I know they could realign if that happens, but it becomes a lot of trouble.

But you're right - I'm brining a "Big 12" bias and an admitted lack of knowledge of the Big 10, hence the concern.

This is what I said here

Will they re-seed the conference line up every 10 years?

When the Big 12 started using this guy's criteria (just not going back 25 years) putting NU, Colo and K-St in the the same division was daft. And keeping rivalries intact would only mean that NU - OU - UTerus - aTm would need to be in the same division and that would have been the weakest so to even it up you would have to throw in MU and OSU The other division would be Colo, K-St, Kansas, IsU, Baylor and Tech.

The order probably should be 1: rivalries b: geography and then 3rd: strength - because it will change with time, the others will not.

EDIT: that is why we pay a conference commissioner lots of money - to competently make these decisions, which somehow is I feel is going from Peddy to TO

 

[AR Husker Fan]

The only problem is that OSU and Michigan have won 34 and 42 big ten titles respectively. The next CLOSEST is Minnesota with 18 whose last one was in 1967........yes 1967.

I have always thought this was going to be a huge problem with expanding the Big Ten. OSU and UM must play each year. If it decides a division, then it is hardly fair for the other 6 teams in the east (cuse, rutgers, indiana, msu, purdue) which I don't think are ever going to compete yearly for the title. Add PSU to the mix and now you have a very very very heavy east division. While the west certainly improves with Nebraska (I cannot bring myself to say NU because thats Northwestern haha), it is just very hard to argue that the west is equal to the east.

So what to do?

It's going to be interesting (BTW, the old Chinese curse is, "May you live in interesting times"). But then again, when you compare titles, the situation was similar in the old Big 8. For the longest times, it was mockingly called "The Big 2 and Little 6" as most titles went to OU and the Huskers. When expanson to the Big 12 occurred, the North was the stronger division. A decade later - it's the South.

I absolutely do not want to see Big 10 rivalries die. When the Big 12 separated OU and NU, it killed one of the best rivalries in all sports. I want to see Michigan-Ohio State each year. Period.

I don't know - a lot may depend on how much further expansion occurs. If the Big 10 stands at 12 schools, we could do what the SEC did to maintain rivalries - have a couple of permanent opponents from the opposite division, and rotate one or two more each year or two. If you put Michigan and Ohio State in different divisions, and make them permanent inter-divisional rivals, that takes care of one case - but what of the rest?

Again - going to be interesting...

 

[abox03]

As a Big ten Guy for my while life...

you cannot convince me that OSU, UM, PSU, ND, MSU in one division is not absurd. I realize your big 12 experience and I understand that...but that was a haphazzard marriage. Big ten has about 100 years of proof that while strength can change year by year...overall OSU and UM have won almost 75% of the championships. Having them and then adding tradiontal powers of PSU and ND along with occasional upstart MSU....Nebraska, Iowa, Wisky and Minnesota will NEVER match that. Never.

EDIT: by Never I do NOT mean to say that those schools cannot win the conf...thats ridiculous. I say that those 4 schools will never match the overall collective power on a consistent basis of OSU, UM, PSU, ND. They never have.

 

[Nexus]

BTW, nice Big Ten banner, AR.

Credit to huskeraddict - he came up with the design. I just put 'em up as he created them, and linked them to each school's official site. But glad you like it - we hope it makes our new Big 10 bretheren feel welcome, and helps Husker fans learn of the great traditions and rivalries of what is now the REAL Big 12.

Kudos to huskeraddict, wherever you are?! :lol:

 

[roundegotrip]

The only problem is that OSU and Michigan have won 34 and 42 big ten titles respectively. The next CLOSEST is Minnesota with 18 whose last one was in 1967........yes 1967.

I have always thought this was going to be a huge problem with expanding the Big Ten. OSU and UM must play each year. If it decides a division, then it is hardly fair for the other 6 teams in the east (cuse, rutgers, indiana, msu, purdue) which I don't think are ever going to compete yearly for the title. Add PSU to the mix and now you have a very very very heavy east division. While the west certainly improves with Nebraska (I cannot bring myself to say NU because thats Northwestern haha), it is just very hard to argue that the west is equal to the east.

Bring in Notre Dame...and that adds another issue all together. ND has rivalaries with MSU, UM, Purdue, Syracuse that moving them to play in the "west" is illogical. Now you add ND to OSU, UM, PSU

haha...

So what to do?

Not that I want to sound conceited or anything, but there's also the issue of Nebraska potentially steamrolling the western division on a regular basis. As a Husker fan I'd love it, but does it serve the conference if Nebraska ends up in the championship game 4 out of every 5 years?

 

[huKSer]

As a Big ten Guy for my while life...

you cannot convince me that OSU, UM, PSU, ND, MSU in one division is not absurd. I realize your big 12 experience and I understand that...but that was a haphazzard marriage. Big ten has about 100 years of proof that while strength can change year by year...overall OSU and UM have won almost 75% of the championships. Having them and then adding tradiontal powers of PSU and ND along with occasional upstart MSU....Nebraska, Iowa, Wisky and Minnesota will NEVER match that. Never.

EDIT: by Never I do NOT mean to say that those schools cannot win the conf...thats ridiculous. I say that those 4 schools will never match the overall collective power on a consistent basis of OSU, UM, PSU, ND. They never have.

What traditional Big 10 power is ND?

If you are referring to Notre Lame, Nebraska lead the series 8-7-1, including 3-0 in the modern era, we were the only team to defeat the 4 horsemen two times, and they dumped Nebraska for for an easier USC matchup.

BTW I personally despise Notre Dumb

 

[MichiganMan]

no chance OSU and Michigan are split up. also unlikely Michigan and Michigan State are split up. Northwestern is further west than Indiana, so that wouldn't make much sense either. anyways i like the idea of 4 groups of 4 teams in the Big Ten. then there is a 4 team 'miniature playoff' for the conference title.

this would be different and could be very interesting. but how would this mini play off go? 1vs4,2vs3 on friday night then the winners on saturday night?

 

[MichiganMan]

As a Big ten Guy for my while life...

you cannot convince me that OSU, UM, PSU, ND, MSU in one division is not absurd. I realize your big 12 experience and I understand that...but that was a haphazzard marriage. Big ten has about 100 years of proof that while strength can change year by year...overall OSU and UM have won almost 75% of the championships. Having them and then adding tradiontal powers of PSU and ND along with occasional upstart MSU....Nebraska, Iowa, Wisky and Minnesota will NEVER match that. Never.

EDIT: by Never I do NOT mean to say that those schools cannot win the conf...thats ridiculous. I say that those 4 schools will never match the overall collective power on a consistent basis of OSU, UM, PSU, ND. They never have.

ND is not joining a conference anytime soon. And it does change year to year. its not that long ago PSU went 4-7 in 2004. If you havent heard yet this season could be ugly for the Lions. The don't have a QB that can throw (watch the spring game if you have access to espn360.) Michigan? 5-7 last year and who even knows how this season is going to go for us. MSU i think they finished 6-7 last year. Far from helping "stack the east division"

east: psu, osu, mich, pur, ind, msu

west: neb, minn, wisc, iowa, northwestern, ill

now look at the 2009 Big Ten standings. http://www.bigtennetwork.com/sports/football/bigtenstandings.asp

as you can see its evenly matched.