Something to chew on re: competitive divisions

ESPY said:
BOJ said:
knapplc said:
BOJ said:
I'll go with the winning % but don't let those championship numbers fool you, two of those for tOSU are made up and about seven for Michigan.
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Yeah, I'm skeptical about lots of the MNC's teams claim from way back when there were several handed out each year.

How did Minnesota get six MNC's? That seems impossible.
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Minny was actually a powerhouse until about 1970, I don't think all 6 are legit but 4 of them definitely are.
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Actually I think all 6 are legit. They 3-peated as the most dominant team from '34-'36. And each of their last 3 ('40, '41, '60) were AP titles.
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From what I am gathering, the titles between 36-60 were AP titles and legit titles (if that's how we are going to measure it). The AP wiki page says they started in 1934, Minny claims titles in 34' and 35' yet the AP does not recognize them. The AP does state Minny as National Champions in 36', 40' 41' and 60'.

I don't know what the politics are behind it but the AP does not claim Minny titles for the previous two years. Here's the kicker though, no one in 1970 thought that Minny would fall off the NCAA football radar, but they did somehow. I have no clue b/c they were one of the perennial powerhouses.

 
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When Iowa won theirs in 1958 there record was 8-1-1 and I don't think the AP even voted for them as National Champions

 
BOJ said:
Minny was actually a powerhouse until about 1970, I don't think all 6 are legit but 4 of them definitely are.
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That's why you don't stray from geography when establishing divisions. If they had done this in the 1960s, Minnesota and Michigan State would be perennial powerhouses, incapable of fading into obscurity and in dire need of balanced distribution.

East-West all the way. Never stray. Hey hey hey.

 
huKSer said:
BOJ said:
huskerjock said:
When Iowa won theirs in 1958 there record was 8-1-1 and I don't think the AP even voted for them as National Champions
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Correct, it was the "Football Writer's Association of America"
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Interesting aside: according to the "Football Writer's Association of Nebraska" the Huskers have 63 national championships!
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:laughpound :laughpound :laughpound

11 time national champions...if we count like iowa

 
It's debatable just what divisional makeup will give the best balance. It's by no means clear that Nebraska/Iowa/Wisconsin doesn't balance out OSU/Michigan/PSU. If we are to forgo the obvious east-west split, the evidence needs to be pretty compelling. There is insufficient reason to think that Iowa and Wisconsin will not be able to keep up their quality of play.

Minnesota has won 6 national championships, but no one factors that in, for example, nor should they. If we must not focus too much on the recent, we must also not focus too much on the past. As someone else observed, Priceton was once a power. Besides, the Big Ten is likely to expand further anyway, and there will be an opportunity to reconsider divisions at that point.

Congratulations on joining the Big Ten, it will be fun when Nebraska comes up to Minnesota. (At least more fun than the last time! :)

 
The best analysis of prestige I have ever seen comes from this unbelievable thread at buckeyeplanet: Which College Football Team Is The Most Prestigious?

Here are some excerpts:

The formula is as follows:
1 point for each net win (total wins minus total losses).

5 points for each perfect season (8 games minimum).

2.5 points for each undefeated (but not perfect) season (8 games minimum).

10 points for each retroactive (pre-1936) national championship (CFRA, HAF, NCF)

50 points for each AP national championship between 1936 and 1949 (pre-coaches' poll)

25 points for each AP national championship from 1950 to date.

25 points for each CP national championship.

5 points for each minor national championship (FWAA, NCF).

5 points for each conference championship.

5 points for each major bowl win (Rose, Sugar, Orange, Fiesta1, Cotton2).

4 points for each major bowl tie.

2 points for each major bowl loss.

3 points for each minor bowl win.

2 points for each minor bowl tie.

1 point for each minor bowl loss.

10 points for each Heisman.

5 points for each other major award (Maxwell, Outland, Lombardi, and AFCA-COY).

2.5 points for each minor award.

1 point for each Walter Camp All American.

5 points for each CFB Hall of Famer.
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(TOP TEN MOST PRESTIGIOUS TEAMS)

....................Notre Dame...Southern Cal...Oklahoma..Ohio State..Michigan...Alabama...Nebraska.........Texas ...Penn State...Tennessee

...

...

...

TOTAL PRESTIGE.........1684.........1598..........1545.. ....1448.......1445.5.....1394.....1387........... 1276.5......1024.........949.5
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i like psu being in our division (i don't really know what this thread is about anymore). PSU and NU are the relative newcomers and they have a bit of history together. they share in common that neither really have much ties to OSU, UM, MSU. i would love NU's division to be: NU, PSU, Iowa, Minn., Wiscon., Illinois (or whoever at that point).

 
Manhattan said:
The best analysis of prestige I have ever seen comes from this unbelievable thread at buckeyeplanet: Which College Football Team Is The Most Prestigious?

Here are some excerpts:

The formula is as follows:
1 point for each net win (total wins minus total losses).

5 points for each perfect season (8 games minimum).

2.5 points for each undefeated (but not perfect) season (8 games minimum).

10 points for each retroactive (pre-1936) national championship (CFRA, HAF, NCF)

50 points for each AP national championship between 1936 and 1949 (pre-coaches' poll)

25 points for each AP national championship from 1950 to date.

25 points for each CP national championship.

5 points for each minor national championship (FWAA, NCF).

5 points for each conference championship.

5 points for each major bowl win (Rose, Sugar, Orange, Fiesta1, Cotton2).

4 points for each major bowl tie.

2 points for each major bowl loss.

3 points for each minor bowl win.

2 points for each minor bowl tie.

1 point for each minor bowl loss.

10 points for each Heisman.

5 points for each other major award (Maxwell, Outland, Lombardi, and AFCA-COY).

2.5 points for each minor award.

1 point for each Walter Camp All American.

5 points for each CFB Hall of Famer.
Click to expand...
(TOP TEN MOST PRESTIGIOUS TEAMS)

....................Notre Dame...Southern Cal...Oklahoma..Ohio State..Michigan...Alabama...Nebraska.........Texas ...Penn State...Tennessee

...

...

...

TOTAL PRESTIGE.........1684.........1598..........1545.. ....1448.......1445.5.....1394.....1387........... 1276.5......1024.........949.5
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These are interesting exercises - but completely artificial. Is a major bowl win really worth the same as CFB Hall of Famer? And since the assigning points is arbitrary, you can manipulate to some degree how your team rates. Sort of like "best town to live". The minor bowl points actually hurt the Big Ten - for a long time it was the Rose Bowl or no bowl. And don't forget the "east coast bias" on voting.

 
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i think you do west plus penn state if they can work it out, but maybe it would be an alright idea to not just set conferences in stone, and you can alter them based on power once in a while? Although it would get tricky trying to do that and keep rivalry games

 
i dont want penn st. in the west division and i dont think it makes ANY sense to have them there. Nebraska/Iowa/Wisconsin is easily enough to keep up with the east side.

having penn st. in the west division really skyrockets their travel costs as well as making the entire west division have higher travel costs than the east division. it just doesnt make sense and it wont happen.

 
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