Am I the only one not a fan of Shawn Watson?

[bshirt]

The more things change - the more they stay the same. Insert Osborne for Watson and triple option for WCO, and this would be the same discussion as most off-seasons from 1987-1993. Although I don't remember it, I'm willing to bet 1974-1980 were similar.

Please list just "one" year TO's offense was anywhere near as pathetic as last year.

 

[knapplc]

The more things change - the more they stay the same. Insert Osborne for Watson and triple option for WCO, and this would be the same discussion as most off-seasons from 1987-1993. Although I don't remember it, I'm willing to bet 1974-1980 were similar.

Please list just "one" year TO's offense was anywhere near as pathetic as last year.

Osborne racked up the numbers, but RedDenver is spot on - this conversation was going on in both eras he cited, and Osborne was nearly run out of Lincoln in the 70s. Osborne's offenses of those days were comparable to Watson's 08 offense; it would rack up tons of yards against weak opponents, then struggle against the tough ones. Often spectacularly and on a grand stage in our bowl games.

 

[irafreak]

When Watson was held over from the previous staff I thought it was a good move. He fielded an excellent product in 2008. Last year was a mixture of injuries and a decided effort to let the defense win the game when it became obvious the offense couldn't. I'm not saying I even agreed with the strategy, but there were other games where another turnover would have netted us an 8-win season. He called a brilliant game against Arizona. That team was flat run over by both coordinators.

This season will cement Watson's immediate future at least in the minds of fans. I think the offense has something to prove this year. If they phone in another season like last year, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a shakeup. I really hope it doesn't come to that, but you can't allow the Brothers' Pelini defensive genius to be wasted on an offense that can't put two touchdowns on the board.

Really? :facepalm: What great or even good defense did that team beat? Missou? Oklahoma?

When it comes down to it Callahan/Watson offenses have lost to every great defense they ever played.

Even the bowl game how many times did Nebraska have to settle on a FG?

I'd take a 12th ranked offense over 99th

It's not hard being 12th when you havent played anyone. Look at the OU game where NU stats look great, but the game was over before the second quarter.

There used to be a guy on the radio who kept stats of NFL games where

A team that had a QB throw for more then 300 yards would most likely be on the losing end compared to team that had a 100 yard rusher.

The reasoning is that the team that's behind throws every down and take more chances because they have no choice and are compiling yards between the 20's

Remember a decade ago NU played a team that had a receiver catch a ungodly amount of yards against NU in Lincoln.

The Bulldogs, behind the explosive combination of quarterback Tim Rattay and wide receiver Troy Edwards, closed the Husker lead to 35-21. Edwards set an NCAA record with 405 yards on 21 catches, while Rattay completed 46 of 68 passes for 590 yards. Edwards' receiving yards broke the previous NCAA mark of 363 yards held by UNLV's Randy Gatewood against Idaho. Edwards' 21 catches were two shy of Gatewood's NCAA record 23 receptions.

NU had a 35-6 halftime lead and the game was over so did those stats mean anything? I'm betting they finished in the top 15 that year to.

Stats do not tell the whole story

Yes, we understand that, and thank you for the anecdote, but you're lying if you say you wouldn't prefer the 08 offense over last year's.

Their really the same offense and your lying to yourself if you think the outcome against Texas or V tech would have changed if Nebraska still had Ganz at the helm last year since they both had great defenses. I'm willing to say the Iowa State game would have been a win.

Texas Tech? probably same outcome. Remember Ganz scored more td's against the NU defense then any opponents QB.

So you really think if we had the 08 offense with last year's defense the only difference in record is a win over ISU? Ganz couldn't have done better than 17 completions for 175 yds, 34% completion, 0 TDs, and 5 INTs against UT and VaTech? I think you might be in the minority here.

Nope I have complete faith in Watson and Ganz to turn a close game into a blowout for the other team. Example Ganz OU 2008, Missou 2008, Colorado 2007 he even tried Clemson 2008 but good thing they were a 7-5 team and not a great defense.

Virginia Tech got on the board first when Virgil blocked a Dan Titchener punt for a safey with 8:35 remaining in the first quarter. After the Husker defense forced a three-and-out following the free kick, Macho Harris picked off a Ganz pass and returned it to the NU 5. Three plays later, Darren Evans found the end zone on a one-yard touchdown run to give the Hokies an early 9-0 lead.

Missouri's high-powered offense operated with machine-like precision, as the No. 4 Tigers ended a 30-year losing streak in Lincoln with a 52-17 victory over Nebraska on Homecoming at Memorial Stadium on Saturday night. How does a team that rated in the top 15 in offense not score more then 17 at home in a night game?

On NU's possession, Ganz overshot wide receiver Nate Swift on his first attempt, before running from heavy pressure on the Huskers' second play of the drive. Ganz flipped the ball up the field in an attempt to avoid the sack, but his pass was intercepted by Texas Tech to end the game and NU's hopes of an impressive upset. The interception was the only turnover of the game by either team and it ended an otherwise impressive performance by Ganz.

Norman, Okla. - No. 4 Oklahoma capitalized on a pair of early mistakes by Nebraska and rolled to a 62-28 victory over the Huskers at Gaylord Family-Memorial Stadium on Saturday.

This is what this offense does.

I think you make a valid point here. Missouri's defense was not a powerhouse. Of course with the game quickly getting out of hand we changed our gameplan and become a little one-dimensional.

I also think you can't guarantee a NT with the 08 offense on last year's team. We don't know that they score points against Texas Tech. We also don't know if ganz throws a crippling int early in the OU, Texas, VT game. We also don't know if the defense gets tired in the OU or texas game because we are playing more wide-open with the offense. Our combination last year may have provided us the best outcome.

 

[74Hunter]

I also lay it at Barney's feet. As unqualified as Bill Callahan was as our program's HC, he was simply a masterful OL technician and our OL play benefited from his presence here. In comes Barney and he directly criticize's the master's approach, telling his OL to not focus on techniques and details and just play hard. I'll bet the players loved that, but everyone paid for it on Saturdays. Good thing too we have seen (I think) a change of approach and some consulting from Milt Tenopir with the OLs. So in both cases the future looks bright, although from my uneducated perspective I would say the OL's future looks brighter - given the recent and current recruiting and the consulting from Milt Tenopir. Our resident insider BigWillie has been thoroughly critical of Gilmore's abilities both as a recruiter and as a coach for his whole tenure here, so I'll take his word on that, a little sadly

While I am not sold on Cotton, I believe that our OL problems started with Callahan. His O-Lines never were very good, and the mistakes that we see now with false starts or missing assignments are fallout from his tenure. He may be a great NFL technician, but his techniques did not work well at the college level.

This year is judgement day for both Cotton and Watson, imo.

 

[RockyMountainOySker]

This has been a really fun read as I catch up on this discussion. A few points to make:

1) You are crazy if you don't think Ganz could have led last years team to probably three more wins. Va Tech, Texas, and maybe ISU. To me, the ISU game had little to do with Lee but late in the game when we were desperate for a score, Ganz could have delivered. Ganz probably did lose the Va Tech game in '08 with the early pick but he certainly wasn't the only reason. Lee was hurt the entire year, the only consistency the Oline had last year was being injured, and our WRs were mostly new.....that being said, Ganz's knowledge of the playbook and ability to execute would have taken the '09 team much farther. I won't say the NC game but I will say conference champs. Stats don't tell the whole story but I will guarantee Zach Lee could not have produced the number 12 overall offense if he was the guy in '08.

2) Someone above talked about the '08 OU game - particularly the first play of the game. That had more to do with Watson than Ganz. I don't hate the play call, I hate the timing of the play call. IMO, this point has little wait in the Ganz vs. Lee debate.

3) Watson - two sides to this story. IMO, you have to throw out last year entirely. Watson had no choice but to reel in the playbook and be as conservative as possible. This year will be the key year when we find out just how good of an offensive coordinator Watson is. The other side to this story is Watson actually hasn't put together amazing offenses at any point in his career outside of a couple years.....'08 Nebraska - playbook was wide open as we were coming from behind a lot (#12 overall).....and 01' Colorado - great rushing team that got to the conference champ game. He killed us on the ground for 60+ points but remember Cosgrove opened the whole more than their Oline.

This is why I say this year the year to start judging Watson. If he can't produce a decent offense this year then IMO people can start to get uneasy. We have the most Oline depth he's had and return our top 3 QBs, RBs, and WRs. So hold your judgement until this season gets going....specifically the Washington game or conference play.

By the way, I completely agree with all the Cotton comments. The best news I've heard in years is that Milt is helping out.

 

[billdozer15]

My 2 cents. This is the put-up or shut-up time for Wats. If he cant get an O going this year then its time to move on. Consistency is key and Wats has been consistent at being inconsistant. I am tired of seeing the offense have to be retooled halfway through the season. Shouldnt our offensive identity be solved in the off-season? Watsons O better come out from the gate lighting people up otherwise his seat is going to be getting warm.

 

[huKSer]

I still don't think we can sit here and blame this on the O-line. Our O-line did just fine in the bowl game. Now I don't know if we returned anyone from injuries for that game, but I'm going to go ahead and say it was essentially the same O-line we saw all year. I find it hard to believe the line was that bad the whole year. We dominated that game on offense because we FINALLY mixed it up a little bit. We finally did something that defenses weren't used to seeing. The difference showed and everyone saw it.

I personally think it's mind-boggling that Barney is so easily let off the hook and Watson is routinely roasted. My theory is that Barney is seen as a 'Nebraska guy' and Wats is seen as 'a Callahan holdover.' Very unfortunate if that is the case, because I think the amount of criticism directed at these two should be reversed. DB this isn't directed at you by the way, just a general observation.

Our o-line plays ONE good game - and the whole offense played well that game - and Barney's alright? While Watson's offense not performing up to par against "great defenses" means he's no good.

With the 2008 offense, I don't know why people like to put it down so much. Yeah, it didn't do well against the best D's we faced. One, that's not particularly unusual. Two, Bo's 2003 defense was supposed to be so great, and it was, but it was still gashed by all the top offenses we faced that year. That was a defense that had plenty of stalwarts on it, too. What did we have in 2008? Undersized, noodle armed Joe Ganz, who was just some guy that happened to grow up in the system and was a mad gamer who knew it really well. 4.7-40 Nate Swift and Todd Peterson as our receivers, who couldn't stretch the field and intimidate defenses. We made hay from nothing, or very little at least. That's why what we did in '08 was impressive.

Anyway...

I think I remember that for a series of games their were only 5 o-line players healthy enough to play, and several of them were dinged up. If that is so I can understand offensive under performing

HOWEVER, with the quality of new recruits, players coming off red-shirts, 10 returning starters, increased depth and the off season to get healthy I am hopeful (expecting?) Holiday Bowl-ish results

 

[typ3kal]

Just re-watched the season.

Ever notice how Bo was in Barney Cotton's face 95% of the time and not Watson's?

The penalties and terrible line play is what killed the offense. Not to mention that knowing now that Zac was injured all year, Watson was probably calling plays that could be executed with the dinged up lack luster personnel. If anything, I see this as the Put up or shut up season for Cotton and Marcel Jones, not Watson.

 

[EZ-E]

I love all of this crap about Watson. Did anyone not realize how banged up we were on the OL last season? What about losing a huge part of your offense before the season even started? What about the injuries to Burkhead and Helu? What about Zac Lee's arm? It was shot; he couldnt get a clean grip on the ball. He tore what is thought of as the ACL of your arm. Would you be giving as much sh#t to a RB that tore his ACL as you would Zac Lee and Watson? No.

Bo pulled the leash on Watson awful tight after the Iowa State game. The staff knew what had to be done and that was to chuck the egos and simplify the offense, play field position and let the defense win us games.

1) And you know this how?

2) And we can expect a great offense this year due to great QB/OL play?

The truth is we sucked on O last year and we sucked badly. Any true fan is just hoping for improvement and not making excuses. I hope we are better but I'll believe it when I see it!

Answer to number 1

-Where the hell were you all last season? That was all we heard about.

Answer to number 2

-Well, I am not doctor but I think if you get a surgery to FIX something that greatly hampered your ability to throw the ball I would imagine it couldnt possibly be any worse.

Reply to the essay

-Yes we did suck. As you can see our offense was also stuck between a rock in a hard place. What could we have expected given the situation that we found ourselves in? Based on that the coaches were forced to throw the egos out the window and do what they needed to to win ball games. Anyone who actually paid attention last year saw how much the staff simplified our offense.

Side note for extra credit:

Billyball - what is your issue with me? You seem to always be cynical about everything that I post. I realize this is a message board but I think that once in awhile I get something right. :dunno You have seemed to have a personal vendetta against me. :box :box :box

 

[BigWillie]

I love all of this crap about Watson. Did anyone not realize how banged up we were on the OL last season? What about losing a huge part of your offense before the season even started? What about the injuries to Burkhead and Helu? What about Zac Lee's arm? It was shot; he couldnt get a clean grip on the ball. He tore what is thought of as the ACL of your arm. Would you be giving as much sh#t to a RB that tore his ACL as you would Zac Lee and Watson? No.

Bo pulled the leash on Watson awful tight after the Iowa State game. The staff knew what had to be done and that was to chuck the egos and simplify the offense, play field position and let the defense win us games.

1) And you know this how?

2) And we can expect a great offense this year due to great QB/OL play?

The truth is we sucked on O last year and we sucked badly. Any true fan is just hoping for improvement and not making excuses. I hope we are better but I'll believe it when I see it!

Answer to number 1

-Where the hell were you all last season? That was all we heard about.

Answer to number 2

-Well, I am not doctor but I think if you get a surgery to FIX something that greatly hampered your ability to throw the ball I would imagine it couldnt possibly be any worse.

Reply to the essay

-Yes we did suck. As you can see our offense was also stuck between a rock in a hard place. What could we have expected given the situation that we found ourselves in? Based on that the coaches were forced to throw the egos out the window and do what they needed to to win ball games. Anyone who actually paid attention last year saw how much the staff simplified our offense.

Side note for extra credit:

Billyball - what is your issue with me? You seem to always be cynical about everything that I post. I realize this is a message board but I think that once in awhile I get something right. :dunno You have seemed to have a personal vendetta against me. :box :box :box

All I'm gonna say about this subject is that EZ is right on in saying Bo handcuffed Watson quite a bit last season.

Bo figured with a busted up QB, busted up RBs (Helu and Burkhead were never 100% throughout the season), busted up o-line, that we had little choice but to rely on our defense. He really believed our defense would get us a short field often enough to get us cheap points along with our offense putting together a couple drives a game, would be enough to win alot of ballgames. And he was right for the most past. Damm you TTech!

 

[irafreak]

This has been a really fun read as I catch up on this discussion. A few points to make:

1) You are crazy if you don't think Ganz could have led last years team to probably three more wins. Va Tech, Texas, and maybe ISU. To me, the ISU game had little to do with Lee but late in the game when we were desperate for a score, Ganz could have delivered. Ganz probably did lose the Va Tech game in '08 with the early pick but he certainly wasn't the only reason. Lee was hurt the entire year, the only consistency the Oline had last year was being injured, and our WRs were mostly new.....that being said, Ganz's knowledge of the playbook and ability to execute would have taken the '09 team much farther. I won't say the NC game but I will say conference champs. Stats don't tell the whole story but I will guarantee Zach Lee could not have produced the number 12 overall offense if he was the guy in '08.

2) Someone above talked about the '08 OU game - particularly the first play of the game. That had more to do with Watson than Ganz. I don't hate the play call, I hate the timing of the play call. IMO, this point has little wait in the Ganz vs. Lee debate.

3) Watson - two sides to this story. IMO, you have to throw out last year entirely. Watson had no choice but to reel in the playbook and be as conservative as possible. This year will be the key year when we find out just how good of an offensive coordinator Watson is. The other side to this story is Watson actually hasn't put together amazing offenses at any point in his career outside of a couple years.....'08 Nebraska - playbook was wide open as we were coming from behind a lot (#12 overall).....and 01' Colorado - great rushing team that got to the conference champ game. He killed us on the ground for 60+ points but remember Cosgrove opened the whole more than their Oline.

This is why I say this year the year to start judging Watson. If he can't produce a decent offense this year then IMO people can start to get uneasy. We have the most Oline depth he's had and return our top 3 QBs, RBs, and WRs. So hold your judgement until this season gets going....specifically the Washington game or conference play.

By the way, I completely agree with all the Cotton comments. The best news I've heard in years is that Milt is helping out.

This was kind of the point I was driving at. Ganz in the game we see watson open things up more which could've caused more plays like this one. Who's to say that a poor play call (from an OC confident in his qb) couldn't knock us out of a game real fast? I just can't say for certain that mixing the two units together would've won the big12. Too many variables.

 

[Nexus]

The new Central Michigan HC, Dan Enos cites Watson as a major influence on him from an X's and O's standpoint. FWIW, Enos was a former QB for Michigan State from '87-'90, which is interesting since Coach Bo was playing at Ohio St. during that same stretch of time.

If Dan Enos had a nickle for every time someone asked him what his offense was going to look like, he wouldn't need to be a college football coach anymore.

From the day he was introduced, the fear of the Central Michigan football fan base was that the spread was dead and the Chippewas were going to revert back to a power running game that was made famous in previous decades.

Now, in part two of The Morning Sun's three-part series where Enos answers your questions, the new coach tries to put the offensive concerns to rest once and for all as he discusses his coaching influences and just what a "wide open offense" will look like.

Morning Sun: Alright Dan it is time to talk about your coaching strategy and as you can imagine, the offense is the focal point.

Dan Enos: I can imagine.

MS: FreznoChip asks which coach has been your biggest influence from an X's and O's standpoint?

DE: There has been so many. Morris Watts was my quarterback coach and he is now a coordinator at Miami of Ohio.

There is Shawn Watson, Offensive Coordinator at Nebraska, he has been very influential on me.

Pat Shurmur, Offensive Coordinator of the St. Louis Rams, he has been very influential as well.

Greg Olson, who has been a coordinator with the Bills and was at Purdue with Drew Brees.

I would say those guys are guys that I have met with on multiple occasions and formed a lot of ideas, and I have to be honest with you too, Dave Baldwin, a guy who was at Michigan State with Drew Stanton for those year, I was with him in 2006 when we were all spread and several of the concepts we do now are things I learned from him.

I would say all those guys are my influences. They all have different backgrounds and different styles but you can learn from anybody.

Those guys have really taken time with me and taught me a lot of different way to do things and that is why when people ask "what is your offense going to look like," some of those guys are west coast guys and some guys are spread guys and some guys like to run. We take all of those concepts, and a lot of them are passing concepts, and mix them all into one.

All those guys, when they sat down with me, they had great progression of teaching, they all had answers to different coverages and different blitzes. Their stuff was very detailed and very thorough.

I always look at things in terms of the quarterback and I think "if I get this or I get that, what do I do?" And sometimes when you talk to some coaches, they don't have an answer for that, but these guys always had those answers and were ready for anything. Those are the people that I gravitate to and talk to and what to learn from.

In college football you are constantly evolving, so you are always looking for and learning new things and sometimes we evolve into things we did 10 years ago. Football is funny that way.

One time, when I was talking to Morris Watts several years ago, he coached me and I used to see him all the time, and one time I met with him and said "hey coach, remember that one play we use to run when I was a player", and we drew it up.

He looked at it and remembered it and got all excited. I told him we ran that play three times a game and it was one of our biggest gainers. Next thing I know Morris is drawing it up and asking me what other formations we ran it out of and I ended up showing him the play that he taught me. It is funny how that all worked out and he used the play again.

LINK

 

[REDSTEEL]

The new Central Michigan HC, Dan Enos cites Watson as a major influence on him from an X's and O's standpoint. FWIW, Enos was a former QB for Michigan State from '87-'90, which is interesting since Coach Bo was playing at Ohio St. during that same stretch of time.

If Dan Enos had a nickle for every time someone asked him what his offense was going to look like, he wouldn't need to be a college football coach anymore.

From the day he was introduced, the fear of the Central Michigan football fan base was that the spread was dead and the Chippewas were going to revert back to a power running game that was made famous in previous decades.

Now, in part two of The Morning Sun's three-part series where Enos answers your questions, the new coach tries to put the offensive concerns to rest once and for all as he discusses his coaching influences and just what a "wide open offense" will look like.

Morning Sun: Alright Dan it is time to talk about your coaching strategy and as you can imagine, the offense is the focal point.

Dan Enos: I can imagine.

MS: FreznoChip asks which coach has been your biggest influence from an X's and O's standpoint?

DE: There has been so many. Morris Watts was my quarterback coach and he is now a coordinator at Miami of Ohio.

There is Shawn Watson, Offensive Coordinator at Nebraska, he has been very influential on me.

Pat Shurmur, Offensive Coordinator of the St. Louis Rams, he has been very influential as well.

Greg Olson, who has been a coordinator with the Bills and was at Purdue with Drew Brees.

I would say those guys are guys that I have met with on multiple occasions and formed a lot of ideas, and I have to be honest with you too, Dave Baldwin, a guy who was at Michigan State with Drew Stanton for those year, I was with him in 2006 when we were all spread and several of the concepts we do now are things I learned from him.

I would say all those guys are my influences. They all have different backgrounds and different styles but you can learn from anybody.

Those guys have really taken time with me and taught me a lot of different way to do things and that is why when people ask "what is your offense going to look like," some of those guys are west coast guys and some guys are spread guys and some guys like to run. We take all of those concepts, and a lot of them are passing concepts, and mix them all into one.

All those guys, when they sat down with me, they had great progression of teaching, they all had answers to different coverages and different blitzes. Their stuff was very detailed and very thorough.

I always look at things in terms of the quarterback and I think "if I get this or I get that, what do I do?" And sometimes when you talk to some coaches, they don't have an answer for that, but these guys always had those answers and were ready for anything. Those are the people that I gravitate to and talk to and what to learn from.

In college football you are constantly evolving, so you are always looking for and learning new things and sometimes we evolve into things we did 10 years ago. Football is funny that way.

One time, when I was talking to Morris Watts several years ago, he coached me and I used to see him all the time, and one time I met with him and said "hey coach, remember that one play we use to run when I was a player", and we drew it up.

He looked at it and remembered it and got all excited. I told him we ran that play three times a game and it was one of our biggest gainers. Next thing I know Morris is drawing it up and asking me what other formations we ran it out of and I ended up showing him the play that he taught me. It is funny how that all worked out and he used the play again.

LINK

I'm sure someone somewhere gives Cosgrove credit for where they are now. chuckleshuffle

 

[NUance]

This has been a really fun read as I catch up on this discussion. A few points to make:

1) You are crazy if you don't think Ganz could have led last years team to probably three more wins. Va Tech, Texas, and maybe ISU. To me, the ISU game had little to do with Lee but late in the game when we were desperate for a score, Ganz could have delivered. Ganz probably did lose the Va Tech game in '08 with the early pick but he certainly wasn't the only reason. Lee was hurt the entire year, the only consistency the Oline had last year was being injured, and our WRs were mostly new.....that being said, Ganz's knowledge of the playbook and ability to execute would have taken the '09 team much farther. I won't say the NC game but I will say conference champs. Stats don't tell the whole story but I will guarantee Zach Lee could not have produced the number 12 overall offense if he was the guy in '08.

2) Someone above talked about the '08 OU game - particularly the first play of the game. That had more to do with Watson than Ganz. I don't hate the play call, I hate the timing of the play call. IMO, this point has little wait in the Ganz vs. Lee debate.

3) Watson - two sides to this story. IMO, you have to throw out last year entirely. Watson had no choice but to reel in the playbook and be as conservative as possible. This year will be the key year when we find out just how good of an offensive coordinator Watson is. The other side to this story is Watson actually hasn't put together amazing offenses at any point in his career outside of a couple years.....'08 Nebraska - playbook was wide open as we were coming from behind a lot (#12 overall).....and 01' Colorado - great rushing team that got to the conference champ game. He killed us on the ground for 60+ points but remember Cosgrove opened the whole more than their Oline.

This is why I say this year the year to start judging Watson. If he can't produce a decent offense this year then IMO people can start to get uneasy. We have the most Oline depth he's had and return our top 3 QBs, RBs, and WRs. So hold your judgement until this season gets going....specifically the Washington game or conference play.

By the way, I completely agree with all the Cotton comments. The best news I've heard in years is that Milt is helping out.

I'm with ya. Especially the bolded part. This is the year for Wats to silence the naysayers. Or pack.

 

[bshirt]

Even if he does have a good offense this year is having a horribly inept to bad offense every two or three years acceptable? Obviously most posters think that's just fine.

It's funny that it most surely isn't on the other side of the ball. Just ask Bohl or COZ. They combined didn't get 1% of the excuses SW does.

I don't know why....but it is what it is.