Decision to Bench Taylor

[Jason Sitoke]

Pulling Martinez was idiotic. There was absolutely no reason for it. Perhaps Martinez was making mistakes in the running game, and a couple of his passes were off, but how exactly were we envisioning picking up 3 scores with Zac fing Lee?

You think all a QB does is run the ball or throw the ball? Martinez was making mistakes in all facets of the game. He was consistently making mistakes with nearly every snap. And he was frazzled out there instead of leading.

It was 2 scores, and if you need to ask 'how exactly we envisioned it', you need to go back and look at those 2 drives, both of which nearly ended in touchdowns.

Don't really care what kind of message it sends, he has to earn the right to be on the field, and with play like that, he earned the right to be hooked.

Zac Lee is not big or slow by any stretch of the imagination. I don't know where this misconception keeps coming from.

It also says something when Watson and Bo say 'the offense doesn't change, no matter which quarterback is in the game'.

Complete and utter coachspeak.

How does Lee solve the running game problem? How can Lee put passes into Burkhead's, Paul's hands any better than Martinez had to that point?

Because Martinez will need a wide open receiver, or else he'll shuffle around into the pocket until he bumps into an OL, destroying the play and trying to make the best of it with a scramble. When he finds his man, he'll throw it behind him when he could be hitting the guy in stride. And as for the running game, Lee solves it by making the right calls on the zone read, the kind that doesn't involve handing the ball to a RB already being tackled by the DT.

These are all things that Taylor could grow to become proficient in, but it isn't going to happen in the middle of the season.

I'm sorry. 20-3 is a 3 score game, my friend and that's when Lee entered the game. Check the archives. They NEARLY ended in TDs? One drive was mostly penalty yards, the other ended the same way Taylor's NEARLY ended in TDs.....a dropped pass by a WR. Lee led a drive that ended in 3 pts. Martinez led a drive that ended in 3 points. Eric Haag scored 6.

Coachspeak? I've seen the offense when all 3 QBs are in the game. I don't see any difference in the philosophy.

Zac Lee is not a good runner. WHEN has Zac Lee EVER been good at the zone read? I watched last season. Did you?

You're obviously a Lee apologist, so I know I'm not going to convince you of anything.

 

[zoogs]

I think if the reciever had caught just two of the three tds he put in their hands, we'd all be atlking about how well taylor threw the ball

We might be but it wouldn't be accurate.

What would be accurate, had that happened, is talking about how Taylor's threat running the ball keys our receivers to be wide open or in single coverage downfield so much. And how that allows Taylor to get away with poor throwing sometimes. There were many other occasions where he needed to lead the receiver or hit him in stride and he didn't come close to doing it. One of these lead to an incompletion when Paul was wide open with running room. Another time, Paul was wide open and fell down in the process of adjusting to and making the catch. And at least two or three occasions flat out it was a dreadful pass.

We could live with this type of offense if we'd finish those plays. Some of those plays were made in the past, but not against Texas they weren't.

I'm no expert but perhaps someone who is can tell us about those two deep lobs Martinez made. They looked awkward to my amateur eye. Thrown up into the sky to drop like a rock out of the sun. Maybe I'm wrong, would love to hear a comment on this.

 

[zoogs]

I'm sorry. 20-3 is a 3 score game, my friend and that's when Lee entered the game. Check the archives. They NEARLY ended in TDs? One drive was mostly penalty yards, the other ended the same way Taylor's NEARLY ended in TDs.....a dropped pass by a WR. Lee led a drive that ended in 3 pts. Martinez led a drive that ended in 3 points. Eric Haag scored 6.

Coachspeak? I've seen the offense when all 3 QBs are in the game. I don't see any difference in the philosophy.

Zac Lee is not a good runner. WHEN has Zac Lee EVER been good at the zone read? I watched last season. Did you?

You're obviously a Lee apologist, so I know I'm not going to convince you of anything.

My bad, you're correct, it was a 3 score game.

If you can't see how we had a different attack with Lee in the game, or Green in the game compared to Martinez, I don't know what to say. Martinez can't run everything the other guys can. He compensates with his feet. Whether that compensation is enough is the big question.

I did not say Zac Lee was a good runner. You said he was slow, and I called you out on it. Zac is fast. Not as fast as Taylor, but he's not lumbering. Zac has been good at making the right reads in the zone read, including last season. See the Arizona game.

I am just dealing with a reality where Martinez isn't a savior, and Zac Lee doesn't suck, because neither of those (or their opposites) are the truth.

 

[Huskurz]

Should of benched him sooner.

 

[Jason Sitoke]

I'm sorry. 20-3 is a 3 score game, my friend and that's when Lee entered the game. Check the archives. They NEARLY ended in TDs? One drive was mostly penalty yards, the other ended the same way Taylor's NEARLY ended in TDs.....a dropped pass by a WR. Lee led a drive that ended in 3 pts. Martinez led a drive that ended in 3 points. Eric Haag scored 6.

Coachspeak? I've seen the offense when all 3 QBs are in the game. I don't see any difference in the philosophy.

Zac Lee is not a good runner. WHEN has Zac Lee EVER been good at the zone read? I watched last season. Did you?

You're obviously a Lee apologist, so I know I'm not going to convince you of anything.

My bad, you're correct, it was a 3 score game.

If you can't see how we had a different attack with Lee in the game, or Green in the game compared to Martinez, I don't know what to say. Martinez can't run everything the other guys can. He compensates with his feet. Whether that compensation is enough is the big question.

I did not say Zac Lee was a good runner. You said he was slow, and I called you out on it. Zac is fast. Not as fast as Taylor, but he's not lumbering. Zac has been good at making the right reads in the zone read, including last season. See the Arizona game.

I am just dealing with a reality where Martinez isn't a savior, and Zac Lee doesn't suck, because neither of those (or their opposites) are the truth.

I was referring to Green when I said slow and lumbering. I referred to Lee when I spoke of the QB that runs like a scared little girl. I think that's accurate.

I don't believe Martinez is a QB prodigy or a savior. I'm saying that he's our clear #1. He provides a dimension that neither of the other guys gives us. He also is not a great passing QB, although as you pointed out, he is afforded that because he'll be working with one on one coverage due to his homerun running ability.

Zac Lee is a known commodity. He is not going to strike fear in the hearts of any defensive coordinator. Which is why he's a puzzling guy to call a 'spark' in the 3rd quarter of a 17 point ball game.

So we've got one game where Zac Lee ran decent, or 5 games where Martinez has shown some serious explosiveness, and you think that means Lee should replace Martinez? If Taylor is making the wrong reads, and still playing QB for the #2 rushing offense in the NCAA, then let's go with that. He'll improve, and the way he'll improve is in game situation against a fast, disciplined defense that he can't just outrun. Lee led an offense last year that was embarrassingly atrocious. That's what I"VE got to go on as far as Lee's ability. A full season of ineptness.

 

[huskerscott]

I'm sorry. 20-3 is a 3 score game, my friend and that's when Lee entered the game. Check the archives. They NEARLY ended in TDs? One drive was mostly penalty yards, the other ended the same way Taylor's NEARLY ended in TDs.....a dropped pass by a WR. Lee led a drive that ended in 3 pts. Martinez led a drive that ended in 3 points. Eric Haag scored 6.

Coachspeak? I've seen the offense when all 3 QBs are in the game. I don't see any difference in the philosophy.

Zac Lee is not a good runner. WHEN has Zac Lee EVER been good at the zone read? I watched last season. Did you?

You're obviously a Lee apologist, so I know I'm not going to convince you of anything.

My bad, you're correct, it was a 3 score game.

If you can't see how we had a different attack with Lee in the game, or Green in the game compared to Martinez, I don't know what to say. Martinez can't run everything the other guys can. He compensates with his feet. Whether that compensation is enough is the big question.

I did not say Zac Lee was a good runner. You said he was slow, and I called you out on it. Zac is fast. Not as fast as Taylor, but he's not lumbering. Zac has been good at making the right reads in the zone read, including last season. See the Arizona game.

I am just dealing with a reality where Martinez isn't a savior, and Zac Lee doesn't suck, because neither of those (or their opposites) are the truth.

Despite the free yards in penalties, Lee did move the ball down the field. Yes it only ended 3 pts, BUT it took almost 3 quarters to get 3 points with Martinez running the show. Im not saying Martinez is a terrible QB, but I think starting as a redshirt freshman in this offense is a mistake. I could give 2 craps how many yards per game or rush he has, he faced a good defense and got stuffed big time. All those other teams had terrible defenses, personally i wouldve surprised to see Martinez run loose against Texas.

Ive said this from the start of fall camp. Start Lee, let Martinez come in a get some snaps, whether its at running back, wide receiver, or quarterback.

 

[Jason Sitoke]

I'm sorry. 20-3 is a 3 score game, my friend and that's when Lee entered the game. Check the archives. They NEARLY ended in TDs? One drive was mostly penalty yards, the other ended the same way Taylor's NEARLY ended in TDs.....a dropped pass by a WR. Lee led a drive that ended in 3 pts. Martinez led a drive that ended in 3 points. Eric Haag scored 6.

Coachspeak? I've seen the offense when all 3 QBs are in the game. I don't see any difference in the philosophy.

Zac Lee is not a good runner. WHEN has Zac Lee EVER been good at the zone read? I watched last season. Did you?

You're obviously a Lee apologist, so I know I'm not going to convince you of anything.

My bad, you're correct, it was a 3 score game.

If you can't see how we had a different attack with Lee in the game, or Green in the game compared to Martinez, I don't know what to say. Martinez can't run everything the other guys can. He compensates with his feet. Whether that compensation is enough is the big question.

I did not say Zac Lee was a good runner. You said he was slow, and I called you out on it. Zac is fast. Not as fast as Taylor, but he's not lumbering. Zac has been good at making the right reads in the zone read, including last season. See the Arizona game.

I am just dealing with a reality where Martinez isn't a savior, and Zac Lee doesn't suck, because neither of those (or their opposites) are the truth.

Despite the free yards in penalties, Lee did move the ball down the field. Yes it only ended 3 pts, BUT it took almost 3 quarters to get 3 points with Martinez running the show. Im not saying Martinez is a terrible QB, but I think starting as a redshirt freshman in this offense is a mistake. I could give 2 craps how many yards per game or rush he has, he faced a good defense and got stuffed big time. All those other teams had terrible defenses, personally i wouldve surprised to see Martinez run loose against Texas.

Ive said this from the start of fall camp. Start Lee, let Martinez come in a get some snaps, whether its at running back, wide receiver, or quarterback.

Tell me exactly what Zac Lee does differently in the 1st half that gets us more points?

 

[zoogs]

I don't think Martinez inspired any fear yesterday. Not when he has no credibility to pass the ball. Sorry, I missed that you were talking about Green, but Green is, if anything, faster than Lee. Not the best runner either, but anyway...

 

[huskerscott]

I'm sorry. 20-3 is a 3 score game, my friend and that's when Lee entered the game. Check the archives. They NEARLY ended in TDs? One drive was mostly penalty yards, the other ended the same way Taylor's NEARLY ended in TDs.....a dropped pass by a WR. Lee led a drive that ended in 3 pts. Martinez led a drive that ended in 3 points. Eric Haag scored 6.

Coachspeak? I've seen the offense when all 3 QBs are in the game. I don't see any difference in the philosophy.

Zac Lee is not a good runner. WHEN has Zac Lee EVER been good at the zone read? I watched last season. Did you?

You're obviously a Lee apologist, so I know I'm not going to convince you of anything.

My bad, you're correct, it was a 3 score game.

If you can't see how we had a different attack with Lee in the game, or Green in the game compared to Martinez, I don't know what to say. Martinez can't run everything the other guys can. He compensates with his feet. Whether that compensation is enough is the big question.

I did not say Zac Lee was a good runner. You said he was slow, and I called you out on it. Zac is fast. Not as fast as Taylor, but he's not lumbering. Zac has been good at making the right reads in the zone read, including last season. See the Arizona game.

I am just dealing with a reality where Martinez isn't a savior, and Zac Lee doesn't suck, because neither of those (or their opposites) are the truth.

Despite the free yards in penalties, Lee did move the ball down the field. Yes it only ended 3 pts, BUT it took almost 3 quarters to get 3 points with Martinez running the show. Im not saying Martinez is a terrible QB, but I think starting as a redshirt freshman in this offense is a mistake. I could give 2 craps how many yards per game or rush he has, he faced a good defense and got stuffed big time. All those other teams had terrible defenses, personally i wouldve surprised to see Martinez run loose against Texas.

Ive said this from the start of fall camp. Start Lee, let Martinez come in a get some snaps, whether its at running back, wide receiver, or quarterback.

Tell me exactly what Zac Lee does differently in the 1st half that gets us more points?

Well he got positive yards everytime he ran the zone read. It may have been 3-4 yards, but thats about 5 yards more than Taylor was getting. 2nd and 6, is a huge difference than 2nd and 9 or 2nd and 12.

 

[Haspula]

Benching Martinez would ruin our chances of making it to the Big 12 championship

 

[Danimal]

I think if the reciever had caught just two of the three tds he put in their hands, we'd all be atlking about how well taylor threw the ball

We might be but it wouldn't be accurate.

What would be accurate, had that happened, is talking about how Taylor's threat running the ball keys our receivers to be wide open or in single coverage downfield so much. And how that allows Taylor to get away with poor throwing sometimes. There were many other occasions where he needed to lead the receiver or hit him in stride and he didn't come close to doing it. One of these lead to an incompletion when Paul was wide open with running room. Another time, Paul was wide open and fell down in the process of adjusting to and making the catch. And at least two or three occasions flat out it was a dreadful pass.

We could live with this type of offense if we'd finish those plays. Some of those plays were made in the past, but not against Texas they weren't.

I'm no expert but perhaps someone who is can tell us about those two deep lobs Martinez made. They looked awkward to my amateur eye. Thrown up into the sky to drop like a rock out of the sun. Maybe I'm wrong, would love to hear a comment on this.

Of course TM's passing is a work in progress(his reads are too). He's a frosh running qb, if you play him you take some lumps. But most of his passes were catchable(maybe not great but catchable) balls the receiver got two hands on. He didn't have any that could've been picked. He didn't pass well but he passed adequately, receivers have to make some damn plays. Texas gave us the pass to stop the run and we couldn't take advantage primarily because we couldn't hold on to the rock.

 

[zoogs]

The things that Zac does differently is settle down the team and make everyone around him better.

He doesn't hand off to Rex Burkhead to allow him to get stuffed behind the LOS. He keeps it himself, even if he gains just 2-3 yards in the process. When he does give it off to the RB, the RB has space to make something happen. That's one aspect where things are different.

Of course TM's passing is a work in progress(his reads are too). He's a frosh running qb, if you play him you take some lumps. But most of his passes were catchable(maybe not great but catchable) balls the receiver got two hands on. He didn't have any that could've been picked. He didn't pass well but he passed adequately, receivers have to make some damn plays. Texas gave us the pass to stop the run and we couldn't take advantage primarily because we couldn't hold on to the rock.

2 points here...

1) They weren't that adequate, either. When you have a receiver with nobody within 5-10 yards of him, and you don't complete the pass because you throw it behind the receiver on the crossing route, that's on the QB. Leading receivers is a consistent issue here. Receivers got 2 hands on the ball sometimes only after making big adjustments that killed the play. But for sure, there were some dreadful drops yesterday.

2) I agree that he's a work in progress, but the nature of the work isn't the kind you make progress on by taking the lumps now. He needs a dedicated offseason with no games to hone those skills. If we keep riding him, all that will happen is we will keep taking these lumps when we run into these kinds of teams. There's just too much distance to cover; he's not going to develop magically in that category this season.

 

[Jason Sitoke]

I don't think Martinez inspired any fear yesterday. Not when he has no credibility to pass the ball. Sorry, I missed that you were talking about Green, but Green is, if anything, faster than Lee. Not the best runner either, but anyway...

I actually think Martinez inspired a lot of fear as a runner. That's why UT gameplanned for it and singled up their corners. I think the point is that we both agree that neither of them are particularly good runners.

 

[hskerprid]

I'm sorry. 20-3 is a 3 score game, my friend and that's when Lee entered the game. Check the archives. They NEARLY ended in TDs? One drive was mostly penalty yards, the other ended the same way Taylor's NEARLY ended in TDs.....a dropped pass by a WR. Lee led a drive that ended in 3 pts. Martinez led a drive that ended in 3 points. Eric Haag scored 6.

Coachspeak? I've seen the offense when all 3 QBs are in the game. I don't see any difference in the philosophy.

Zac Lee is not a good runner. WHEN has Zac Lee EVER been good at the zone read? I watched last season. Did you?

You're obviously a Lee apologist, so I know I'm not going to convince you of anything.

My bad, you're correct, it was a 3 score game.

If you can't see how we had a different attack with Lee in the game, or Green in the game compared to Martinez, I don't know what to say. Martinez can't run everything the other guys can. He compensates with his feet. Whether that compensation is enough is the big question.

I did not say Zac Lee was a good runner. You said he was slow, and I called you out on it. Zac is fast. Not as fast as Taylor, but he's not lumbering. Zac has been good at making the right reads in the zone read, including last season. See the Arizona game.

I am just dealing with a reality where Martinez isn't a savior, and Zac Lee doesn't suck, because neither of those (or their opposites) are the truth.

Despite the free yards in penalties, Lee did move the ball down the field. Yes it only ended 3 pts, BUT it took almost 3 quarters to get 3 points with Martinez running the show. Im not saying Martinez is a terrible QB, but I think starting as a redshirt freshman in this offense is a mistake. I could give 2 craps how many yards per game or rush he has, he faced a good defense and got stuffed big time. All those other teams had terrible defenses, personally i wouldve surprised to see Martinez run loose against Texas.

Ive said this from the start of fall camp. Start Lee, let Martinez come in a get some snaps, whether its at running back, wide receiver, or quarterback.

Tell me exactly what Zac Lee does differently in the 1st half that gets us more points?

Lee hands the ball off to his backs w/o the deer in the headlights look. He holds onto the ball until the receiver breaks open and doesn't try to run like said deer.Lee has senior moxie and big game decision making under his belt.

I like Taylor but sometimes you're the bug and sometimes you're the windshield. It's no different than switching up Half-backs. If one guy isn't getting it done he gets the hook. If your psyche is that fragile then you don't need to be in that position.

It's still a team sport, no ones feelings or confidence is more important than anybody elses.

 

[Jason Sitoke]

I'm sorry. 20-3 is a 3 score game, my friend and that's when Lee entered the game. Check the archives. They NEARLY ended in TDs? One drive was mostly penalty yards, the other ended the same way Taylor's NEARLY ended in TDs.....a dropped pass by a WR. Lee led a drive that ended in 3 pts. Martinez led a drive that ended in 3 points. Eric Haag scored 6.

Coachspeak? I've seen the offense when all 3 QBs are in the game. I don't see any difference in the philosophy.

Zac Lee is not a good runner. WHEN has Zac Lee EVER been good at the zone read? I watched last season. Did you?

You're obviously a Lee apologist, so I know I'm not going to convince you of anything.

My bad, you're correct, it was a 3 score game.

If you can't see how we had a different attack with Lee in the game, or Green in the game compared to Martinez, I don't know what to say. Martinez can't run everything the other guys can. He compensates with his feet. Whether that compensation is enough is the big question.

I did not say Zac Lee was a good runner. You said he was slow, and I called you out on it. Zac is fast. Not as fast as Taylor, but he's not lumbering. Zac has been good at making the right reads in the zone read, including last season. See the Arizona game.

I am just dealing with a reality where Martinez isn't a savior, and Zac Lee doesn't suck, because neither of those (or their opposites) are the truth.

Despite the free yards in penalties, Lee did move the ball down the field. Yes it only ended 3 pts, BUT it took almost 3 quarters to get 3 points with Martinez running the show. Im not saying Martinez is a terrible QB, but I think starting as a redshirt freshman in this offense is a mistake. I could give 2 craps how many yards per game or rush he has, he faced a good defense and got stuffed big time. All those other teams had terrible defenses, personally i wouldve surprised to see Martinez run loose against Texas.

Ive said this from the start of fall camp. Start Lee, let Martinez come in a get some snaps, whether its at running back, wide receiver, or quarterback.

Tell me exactly what Zac Lee does differently in the 1st half that gets us more points?

Well he got positive yards everytime he ran the zone read. It may have been 3-4 yards, but thats about 5 yards more than Taylor was getting. 2nd and 6, is a huge difference than 2nd and 9 or 2nd and 12.

Lee: 10 attempts for 28 yards 2.8 ypc

Martinez: 13 attempts for 39 yards 3.0 ypc