I'm officially not worried about our offense next year

[husker_99]

I am one of Shawn Watson's biggest detractors. My friends know the vitriol I will spew on game day when things don't work out for the offense. But after thinking for awhile, I'm OK with him staying on, and feel good about the offense for the coming season. Here's why:

Take one look at the players we're recruiting for offense. QB Bubba Starling and Jamal Turner are two of the fastest prospects at their position in a very long time. Sure, we're likely to only get Turner in the end, but I see what the coaches are trying to build. They want a 3 deep of Taylor Martinez's. Super athletic guys that can absolutely devastate a defense with their legs. Brion Carnes fits the mold as well, though he is less of a burner and more of a "quick" player. Think about why our offense REALLY struggled this year. After Martinez got injured, we lost that entire dimension of the offense. We had no other QB that was fast enough to run the same plays as Taylor. We can hem and haw about how Watson should be able to gameplan for the differing styles of Martinez and Green, but we all seem to forgot how truly difficult that is. No one does that. Not in college, not in the NFL. You build your program around a certain style, and you perfect it. That's impossible to do if you have to attempt to master two different skillsets, just because your #1 might get injured. I'm rambling now, but tl;dr We'll have more QBs that can run the same type of offense, which will make it vastly easier for the offense to start to click through practice.

The same applies to our RB recruits. We've targeted two explosive "scat-back" types (much in the vein of LaMichael James) to pair with our existing "superman" at RB (who started with more of a scatback body-type, but filled out due to lacking top end speed). Aaron Green is lightning in a bottle, and Ameer Abdullah is amazingly underrated. I've only watched his 1 on 1 matchup videos from camps, but if he can translate any of that to the field- he'll be a good one for us. 3* scrubs don't get the offer lists that Ameer had before committing.

And we're building a solid base for all of those playmakers with the absolute stud OL class that is coming in. They won't all pan out. Some may never even play a down, but when you've got an entire second string of 4* recruits, you're going to get 1 or 2 studs out of them.

So there it is friends, the house is not burning down, the sky is not falling, Bo Pelini isn't leaving, and the Huskers will kick some a$$ in the Big 10 next year.

I feel you are only optomistic cause you haven't seen a live husker game in about a month and having to live through Watson's crappy decisions. Until Martinez can throw really well and look off of receivers he is just a one trick pony. I wouldn't want a 3 deep Martinez's at qb.

That's the rub, though. One trick ponies can work at the college level, provided that one trick is good enough. Was Crouch a talented passer? Vince Young? Michael Vick? Heck, Oregon's QB isn't much of a passer either. When Martinez was healthy and the QB run threat was fully realized, he was a successful (if not technically proficient) passer. Don't get me wrong, there are many problems with our offense, but if we actually ARE recruiting for a specific mold (obviously, none of us can truly know, we're outsiders), filling out our roster with QBs that can run that mold should alleviate many of our woes.

The difference is that Crouch wasn't running the option read. Young and Vick could pass but wasn't as strong as running. Oregon's QB can pass. Otherwise they would have never made it to the Championship Game and went undefeated all season long. Our offense requires a good passer and good runner. Once you take one away it blows up unless your Qb can pass the ball pretty well. Let's face it once Martinez got hurt and couldn't run we were screwed.

 

[ADS]

Its too much to ask for all of those recruits to come in and make an immediate impact on the D1 level. Especially the QB's and RB's.

 

[bulletbait]

Its too much to ask for all of those recruits to come in and make an immediate impact on the D1 level. Especially the QB's and RB's.

Is it? Many players play as true freshman these days, and contribute immediately. The QBs I expect to redshirt if all goes well (I expect Martinez #1, Carnes #2, Green #3), and only see the field in a true emergency. For the RBs, however, I expect to Green to play extensively, and unless someone steps up, Abdullah as well. OL, I don't expect any of them except perhaps Moore to see the field their freshman year. But once again, I'm not saying that these new players will be the saving grace of our offense. The saving grace will be picking a system (spread run) and sticking to it, making it easier for each position to practice and perfect their schemes.

 

[ADS]

Its too much to ask for all of those recruits to come in and make an immediate impact on the D1 level. Especially the QB's and RB's.

Is it? Many players play as true freshman these days, and contribute immediately. The QBs I expect to redshirt if all goes well (I expect Martinez #1, Carnes #2, Green #3), and only see the field in a true emergency. For the RBs, however, I expect to Green to play extensively, and unless someone steps up, Abdullah as well. OL, I don't expect any of them except perhaps Moore to see the field their freshman year. But once again, I'm not saying that these new players will be the saving grace of our offense. The saving grace will be picking a system (spread run) and sticking to it, making it easier for each position to practice and perfect their schemes.

I'm not syaing they wont play, but play and make enough of an impact to generate some better offensive production? Hard for a 18 year old kid to come in learn the system, and get up to game speed. This wont be highschool football anymore, this will be BIG 10 football. IMO.

 

[bulletbait]

I am one of Shawn Watson's biggest detractors. My friends know the vitriol I will spew on game day when things don't work out for the offense. But after thinking for awhile, I'm OK with him staying on, and feel good about the offense for the coming season. Here's why:

Take one look at the players we're recruiting for offense. QB Bubba Starling and Jamal Turner are two of the fastest prospects at their position in a very long time. Sure, we're likely to only get Turner in the end, but I see what the coaches are trying to build. They want a 3 deep of Taylor Martinez's. Super athletic guys that can absolutely devastate a defense with their legs. Brion Carnes fits the mold as well, though he is less of a burner and more of a "quick" player. Think about why our offense REALLY struggled this year. After Martinez got injured, we lost that entire dimension of the offense. We had no other QB that was fast enough to run the same plays as Taylor. We can hem and haw about how Watson should be able to gameplan for the differing styles of Martinez and Green, but we all seem to forgot how truly difficult that is. No one does that. Not in college, not in the NFL. You build your program around a certain style, and you perfect it. That's impossible to do if you have to attempt to master two different skillsets, just because your #1 might get injured. I'm rambling now, but tl;dr We'll have more QBs that can run the same type of offense, which will make it vastly easier for the offense to start to click through practice.

The same applies to our RB recruits. We've targeted two explosive "scat-back" types (much in the vein of LaMichael James) to pair with our existing "superman" at RB (who started with more of a scatback body-type, but filled out due to lacking top end speed). Aaron Green is lightning in a bottle, and Ameer Abdullah is amazingly underrated. I've only watched his 1 on 1 matchup videos from camps, but if he can translate any of that to the field- he'll be a good one for us. 3* scrubs don't get the offer lists that Ameer had before committing.

And we're building a solid base for all of those playmakers with the absolute stud OL class that is coming in. They won't all pan out. Some may never even play a down, but when you've got an entire second string of 4* recruits, you're going to get 1 or 2 studs out of them.

So there it is friends, the house is not burning down, the sky is not falling, Bo Pelini isn't leaving, and the Huskers will kick some a$$ in the Big 10 next year.

I feel you are only optomistic cause you haven't seen a live husker game in about a month and having to live through Watson's crappy decisions. Until Martinez can throw really well and look off of receivers he is just a one trick pony. I wouldn't want a 3 deep Martinez's at qb.

That's the rub, though. One trick ponies can work at the college level, provided that one trick is good enough. Was Crouch a talented passer? Vince Young? Michael Vick? Heck, Oregon's QB isn't much of a passer either. When Martinez was healthy and the QB run threat was fully realized, he was a successful (if not technically proficient) passer. Don't get me wrong, there are many problems with our offense, but if we actually ARE recruiting for a specific mold (obviously, none of us can truly know, we're outsiders), filling out our roster with QBs that can run that mold should alleviate many of our woes.

The difference is that Crouch wasn't running the option read. Young and Vick could pass but wasn't as strong as running. Oregon's QB can pass. Otherwise they would have never made it to the Championship Game and went undefeated all season long. Our offense requires a good passer and good runner. Once you take one away it blows up unless your Qb can pass the ball pretty well. Let's face it once Martinez got hurt and couldn't run we were screwed.

I think we disagree here (I would say our offense needs a GREAT runner and an adequate passer, which Martinez qualifies as when healthy), but otherwise I think we're arguing the same thing at each other. You are saying that the QB needs to be able to pass so that if he gets injured and cannot run, we aren't in a hole.

I am saying that we need more players at QB that are great runners, so that if the QB1 gets dinged and cannot run effectively enough to open up the passing game, we move to the next healthy guy and keep going, without having to change our offense.

 

[bulletbait]

Its too much to ask for all of those recruits to come in and make an immediate impact on the D1 level. Especially the QB's and RB's.

Is it? Many players play as true freshman these days, and contribute immediately. The QBs I expect to redshirt if all goes well (I expect Martinez #1, Carnes #2, Green #3), and only see the field in a true emergency. For the RBs, however, I expect to Green to play extensively, and unless someone steps up, Abdullah as well. OL, I don't expect any of them except perhaps Moore to see the field their freshman year. But once again, I'm not saying that these new players will be the saving grace of our offense. The saving grace will be picking a system (spread run) and sticking to it, making it easier for each position to practice and perfect their schemes.

I'm not syaing they wont play, but play and make enough of an impact to generate some better offensive production? Hard for a 18 year old kid to come in learn the system, and get up to game speed. This wont be highschool football anymore, this will be BIG 10 football. IMO.

That's fair. We have no idea if they will be effective at the college level yet. But the spread run system is something that is quite prevalent at the high school level, and our system isn't too dissimilar. For most kids that we recruit, this won't be a complete reconstruction of their football experience, just building more wrinkles into it. On top of that, RBs in a spread run system are not required to make very many reads, as all of that falls on the QB's shoulders. The RB just has to know which hole he should aim for, and then take the ball if he gets it. From high school to college to the NFL, RB is one of the easiest positions to jump right in to. I am confident that Green, at least, will have a productive year in 2011 in a backup role. Abdullah is more of a question, as his last reported weight is much lower than Green's, and he may need some time to fill out to ~190lbs.

 

[lionsfan93]

Its too much to ask for all of those recruits to come in and make an immediate impact on the D1 level. Especially the QB's and RB's.

I strongly disagree...yes some are not ready. But what about players like Pat White or Colt McCoy and on the RB side LaMichael or someone called Rex Burkehead. I'd say they all did a pretty good job. It just takes a special player to come in and make an impact. We have a few players that I think can be these kind of special players.

 

[husker_99]

Its too much to ask for all of those recruits to come in and make an immediate impact on the D1 level. Especially the QB's and RB's.

I strongly disagree...yes some are not ready. But what about players like Pat White or Colt McCoy and on the RB side LaMichael or someone called Rex Burkehead. I'd say they all did a pretty good job. It just takes a special player to come in and make an impact. We have a few players that I think can be these kind of special players.

Colt McCoy sat on the sidelines for a year. Big difference.

 

[ADS]

Its too much to ask for all of those recruits to come in and make an immediate impact on the D1 level. Especially the QB's and RB's.

I strongly disagree...yes some are not ready. But what about players like Pat White or Colt McCoy and on the RB side LaMichael or someone called Rex Burkehead. I'd say they all did a pretty good job. It just takes a special player to come in and make an impact. We have a few players that I think can be these kind of special players.

LaMichael james sat on the bench for a year, as well as Pat White.

 

[husker_99]

I am one of Shawn Watson's biggest detractors. My friends know the vitriol I will spew on game day when things don't work out for the offense. But after thinking for awhile, I'm OK with him staying on, and feel good about the offense for the coming season. Here's why:

Take one look at the players we're recruiting for offense. QB Bubba Starling and Jamal Turner are two of the fastest prospects at their position in a very long time. Sure, we're likely to only get Turner in the end, but I see what the coaches are trying to build. They want a 3 deep of Taylor Martinez's. Super athletic guys that can absolutely devastate a defense with their legs. Brion Carnes fits the mold as well, though he is less of a burner and more of a "quick" player. Think about why our offense REALLY struggled this year. After Martinez got injured, we lost that entire dimension of the offense. We had no other QB that was fast enough to run the same plays as Taylor. We can hem and haw about how Watson should be able to gameplan for the differing styles of Martinez and Green, but we all seem to forgot how truly difficult that is. No one does that. Not in college, not in the NFL. You build your program around a certain style, and you perfect it. That's impossible to do if you have to attempt to master two different skillsets, just because your #1 might get injured. I'm rambling now, but tl;dr We'll have more QBs that can run the same type of offense, which will make it vastly easier for the offense to start to click through practice.

The same applies to our RB recruits. We've targeted two explosive "scat-back" types (much in the vein of LaMichael James) to pair with our existing "superman" at RB (who started with more of a scatback body-type, but filled out due to lacking top end speed). Aaron Green is lightning in a bottle, and Ameer Abdullah is amazingly underrated. I've only watched his 1 on 1 matchup videos from camps, but if he can translate any of that to the field- he'll be a good one for us. 3* scrubs don't get the offer lists that Ameer had before committing.

And we're building a solid base for all of those playmakers with the absolute stud OL class that is coming in. They won't all pan out. Some may never even play a down, but when you've got an entire second string of 4* recruits, you're going to get 1 or 2 studs out of them.

So there it is friends, the house is not burning down, the sky is not falling, Bo Pelini isn't leaving, and the Huskers will kick some a$$ in the Big 10 next year.

I feel you are only optomistic cause you haven't seen a live husker game in about a month and having to live through Watson's crappy decisions. Until Martinez can throw really well and look off of receivers he is just a one trick pony. I wouldn't want a 3 deep Martinez's at qb.

That's the rub, though. One trick ponies can work at the college level, provided that one trick is good enough. Was Crouch a talented passer? Vince Young? Michael Vick? Heck, Oregon's QB isn't much of a passer either. When Martinez was healthy and the QB run threat was fully realized, he was a successful (if not technically proficient) passer. Don't get me wrong, there are many problems with our offense, but if we actually ARE recruiting for a specific mold (obviously, none of us can truly know, we're outsiders), filling out our roster with QBs that can run that mold should alleviate many of our woes.

The difference is that Crouch wasn't running the option read. Young and Vick could pass but wasn't as strong as running. Oregon's QB can pass. Otherwise they would have never made it to the Championship Game and went undefeated all season long. Our offense requires a good passer and good runner. Once you take one away it blows up unless your Qb can pass the ball pretty well. Let's face it once Martinez got hurt and couldn't run we were screwed.

I think we disagree here (I would say our offense needs a GREAT runner and an adequate passer, which Martinez qualifies as when healthy), but otherwise I think we're arguing the same thing at each other. You are saying that the QB needs to be able to pass so that if he gets injured and cannot run, we aren't in a hole.

I am saying that we need more players at QB that are great runners, so that if the QB1 gets dinged and cannot run effectively enough to open up the passing game, we move to the next healthy guy and keep going, without having to change our offense.

If Martinez was a good passer we would've won the last 3 games we lost. A good passing qb can take enough pressure off so the rb's can do their job. You can't have a qb shuffle otherwise you have no consistency when one qb gets injured. Our offense changing has to do with the coaching staff who obviously can't coach(offense). Green still being raw as he is is on the coaches. the last thing that doesn't need to happen is have an offense that relies on the qb for most of the offense. I don't want see another Crouch qb or offense. The best offense is a balanced attack. When you can only do one you get screwed cause the defense can just call plays for either running or passing.

 

[bulletbait]

RE: True freshman discussion, I found this article about true freshman contributions on the top 10 teams of the year. I was a bit surprised at the number of true freshman that played for top teams this year: http://newsok.com/how-true-freshmen-impacted-college-footballs-top-teams/article/3534710

A few examples for those who don't want to read the whole article. Auburn played 16 true freshman including RB Michael Dyer. Stanford had RB Anthony Wilkerson contribute 400 yards on the ground. Wisconsin RB James White led the team in rushing as a true frosh. To round out the RBs, Oklahoma State had Joseph Randle contribute 1,161 all purpose yards.

 

[bulletbait]

I am one of Shawn Watson's biggest detractors. My friends know the vitriol I will spew on game day when things don't work out for the offense. But after thinking for awhile, I'm OK with him staying on, and feel good about the offense for the coming season. Here's why:

Take one look at the players we're recruiting for offense. QB Bubba Starling and Jamal Turner are two of the fastest prospects at their position in a very long time. Sure, we're likely to only get Turner in the end, but I see what the coaches are trying to build. They want a 3 deep of Taylor Martinez's. Super athletic guys that can absolutely devastate a defense with their legs. Brion Carnes fits the mold as well, though he is less of a burner and more of a "quick" player. Think about why our offense REALLY struggled this year. After Martinez got injured, we lost that entire dimension of the offense. We had no other QB that was fast enough to run the same plays as Taylor. We can hem and haw about how Watson should be able to gameplan for the differing styles of Martinez and Green, but we all seem to forgot how truly difficult that is. No one does that. Not in college, not in the NFL. You build your program around a certain style, and you perfect it. That's impossible to do if you have to attempt to master two different skillsets, just because your #1 might get injured. I'm rambling now, but tl;dr We'll have more QBs that can run the same type of offense, which will make it vastly easier for the offense to start to click through practice.

The same applies to our RB recruits. We've targeted two explosive "scat-back" types (much in the vein of LaMichael James) to pair with our existing "superman" at RB (who started with more of a scatback body-type, but filled out due to lacking top end speed). Aaron Green is lightning in a bottle, and Ameer Abdullah is amazingly underrated. I've only watched his 1 on 1 matchup videos from camps, but if he can translate any of that to the field- he'll be a good one for us. 3* scrubs don't get the offer lists that Ameer had before committing.

And we're building a solid base for all of those playmakers with the absolute stud OL class that is coming in. They won't all pan out. Some may never even play a down, but when you've got an entire second string of 4* recruits, you're going to get 1 or 2 studs out of them.

So there it is friends, the house is not burning down, the sky is not falling, Bo Pelini isn't leaving, and the Huskers will kick some a$$ in the Big 10 next year.

I feel you are only optomistic cause you haven't seen a live husker game in about a month and having to live through Watson's crappy decisions. Until Martinez can throw really well and look off of receivers he is just a one trick pony. I wouldn't want a 3 deep Martinez's at qb.

That's the rub, though. One trick ponies can work at the college level, provided that one trick is good enough. Was Crouch a talented passer? Vince Young? Michael Vick? Heck, Oregon's QB isn't much of a passer either. When Martinez was healthy and the QB run threat was fully realized, he was a successful (if not technically proficient) passer. Don't get me wrong, there are many problems with our offense, but if we actually ARE recruiting for a specific mold (obviously, none of us can truly know, we're outsiders), filling out our roster with QBs that can run that mold should alleviate many of our woes.

The difference is that Crouch wasn't running the option read. Young and Vick could pass but wasn't as strong as running. Oregon's QB can pass. Otherwise they would have never made it to the Championship Game and went undefeated all season long. Our offense requires a good passer and good runner. Once you take one away it blows up unless your Qb can pass the ball pretty well. Let's face it once Martinez got hurt and couldn't run we were screwed.

I think we disagree here (I would say our offense needs a GREAT runner and an adequate passer, which Martinez qualifies as when healthy), but otherwise I think we're arguing the same thing at each other. You are saying that the QB needs to be able to pass so that if he gets injured and cannot run, we aren't in a hole.

I am saying that we need more players at QB that are great runners, so that if the QB1 gets dinged and cannot run effectively enough to open up the passing game, we move to the next healthy guy and keep going, without having to change our offense.

If Martinez was a good passer we would've won the last 3 games we lost. A good passing qb can take enough pressure off so the rb's can do their job. You can't have a qb shuffle otherwise you have no consistency when one qb gets injured. Our offense changing has to do with the coaching staff who obviously can't coach(offense). Green still being raw as he is is on the coaches. the last thing that doesn't need to happen is have an offense that relies on the qb for most of the offense. I don't want see another Crouch qb or offense. The best offense is a balanced attack. When you can only do one you get screwed cause the defense can just call plays for either running or passing.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. I see nothing wrong with relying on the QB for most of the offense. In the vast majority of situations, that is true. Great passing teams need their QB to succeed. Great spread running teams need their QB to succeed. Pretty much the only offense that can get away with not having everything go through the QB would be a Wisconsin style power running team, but even then, you need a QB that is a highly efficient passer. So really I don't see how you CAN'T rely on the QB for most of the offense.

You say that "you get screwed cause the defense can just call plays for either running or passing"-- I don't really get what you're implying here. If you're a great running team, you get the defense to sell out to stop the run, opening up easy passes for the QB (Oklahoma State anyone?). If you're a great passing team, you open up the defense to be soft against the run. No one is saying that Nebraska doesn't need to pass. I just disagree that we even need a "good" passer to be successful. Passing against a defense that loads up to stop a successful run-game does not require Peyton Manning.

 

[zoogs]

Think about why our offense REALLY struggled this year. After Martinez got injured, we lost that entire dimension of the offense. We had no other QB that was fast enough to run the same plays as Taylor. We can hem and haw about how Watson should be able to gameplan for the differing styles of Martinez and Green, but we all seem to forgot how truly difficult that is. No one does that. Not in college, not in the NFL. You build your program around a certain style, and you perfect it. That's impossible to do if you have to attempt to master two different skillsets, just because your #1 might get injured.

Come on now, everyone knows that any competent OC would install two schemes at once every year for different quarterbacks

I think the Taylor talk can be summed up like this. Beginning of the year...

Martinez 'haters': No! You can't start this guy, he is too raw as a passer and way, way too raw as a quarterback at this level. He can't make a lot of necessary reads and is mistake prone. He will need an offseason to address that whole litany of issues.

Others: Doesn't matter, he can run with the ball like greased lightning. Like Eric Crouch or Tommie Frazier. Those guys weren't great passers either, and we won titles with them.

After the season...

Others: Taylor can't pass! He can't read defenses! Our QB coach sucks. It's Watson's fault Taylor hasn't progressed in these areas.

aspeed, I think RB is one position where we might be able to hope for something out of a true freshman RB...but we shall see. It is a good thing we have Rex still.

As far as requiring a good passer vs a good runner goes, I think while it's nice to have a QB that runs really well, it is still more important, even in this offense, for the QB to be a good passer. The difference is that now he has to be an adequate runner, too.

OP, I agree with you in most of it, but I'm not quite as optimistic. I do think the player influx on offense is going to be huge for us...not just this year, but guys coming off of redshirt years, or at least Carnes. We actually haven't had elite athleticism on the offensive side of the ball, apart from a guy or two here and there. We are about to see some dynamite RBs come in for us, and some dynamite QB/athletes...I'm a little past hope for the immensely talented WRs that have come through (like Khiry) as long as that coach is still here, though...

 

[ADS]

RE: True freshman discussion, I found this article about true freshman contributions on the top 10 teams of the year. I was a bit surprised at the number of true freshman that played for top teams this year: http://newsok.com/how-true-freshmen-impacted-college-footballs-top-teams/article/3534710

A few examples for those who don't want to read the whole article. Auburn played 16 true freshman including RB Michael Dyer. Stanford had RB Anthony Wilkerson contribute 400 yards on the ground. Wisconsin RB James White led the team in rushing as a true frosh. To round out the RBs, Oklahoma State had Joseph Randle contribute 1,161 all purpose yards.

There are exceptions, it also helps when you have a decent offensive coach on your staff.

 

[Hunter94]

WOW....let the sunshine pumping begin!!! wooo-whooo :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :koolaid2: :nanalama