LBs coach

We're not talking about a highly regarded and prominently successful head coach moving from a lower institution to a higher one. Ross Els coaches LBs at Ohio. And if we want a proven coach to come here, we can make it happen, or at least try (Bo was no slouch coming here; Florida just did the same thing hiring their HC that we did in 2007). But anyway, we are just talking about LBs coach here, and I guess you got to trust Bo to pick the right guy.

 
da skers said:
Roark said:
I can't believe those two are actually names in the running. Ohio? NEW MEXICO STATE? /caps

Seriously, I know a lot of people raged on me for saying this before, but Nebraska is a top-tier football program and should not be settling for the likes of Steve Stanard and Ross Els... Don't get me wrong, these guys would be a great hire if Nebraska's goal is mediocrity, which may be the new standard if this coaching staff has its way.
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I don't think Stanard is in consideration. And I think you're going to be pretty disappointed when its Els. He's pretty high energy and has special teams experience. I'd look for JP to get more responsibility on the defense as he turned down the Gators to stay here.

Els doesn't see like much, but hey. . . who would have though Carl was going to be any good either? Sometimes coaches don't seem that impressive because of the places they've coached and sometimes the reverse is true as well and they look impressive because of those stops when they're not that great of coaches.
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And since he worked with Carl, he is probably a know commodity and knows the system well. He may turn out to be a good one.

 
kchusker_chris said:
@Roark - What schools would qualify a coach to be Husker material? SEC / Big 10 / Big 12? LSU, Alabama, Oregon, Oklahoma, etc? You think a LB coach would leave their position at an already elite level institution to move their family to Lincoln, Nebraska and coach for tens of thousands of dollars less than where they are currently at? That's not even a lateral move...it's a step backwards any way you look at it.

What about from a place like Utah or Bowling Green? Not exactly a "Husker" type of programs right? Florida did OK poaching Utah's HC not long ago if you ask me, and his recent background Included Bowling Green. Using HC's as an example - how about Chip Kelly? He went from the dominant football power that was New Hampshire to the OC position at Oregon. Turned out ok for Oregon I think.

We'll just go down the line of the top 25...

Gene Chizik, dud at lowly Iowa State to national champion at Auburn in 2 years.

Gary Patterson, New Mexico to TCU - I think TCU is pretty happy w/ their hire from New Mexico. (I dont't think State is really that much farther down the pole)

Jim Harbaugh, University of San Diego before Stanford - not to bad of a catch from a lowly institution.

Jim Tressel, Youngstown State - that's right up there as one of the top programs in the country right?

I could continue on...nearly every great coach out there right now got their start because they had success at one of these such programs. You want a "proven" coach for Nebraska? GOOD LUCK. Lincoln isn't Hollywood, and the winters don't include time at the beach.
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Lol, game over! Nice response.

 
kchusker_chris said:
@Roark - What schools would qualify a coach to be Husker material? SEC / Big 10 / Big 12? LSU, Alabama, Oregon, Oklahoma, etc? You think a LB coach would leave their position at an already elite level institution to move their family to Lincoln, Nebraska and coach for tens of thousands of dollars less than where they are currently at? That's not even a lateral move...it's a step backwards any way you look at it.

What about from a place like Utah or Bowling Green? Not exactly a "Husker" type of programs right? Florida did OK poaching Utah's HC not long ago if you ask me, and his recent background Included Bowling Green. Using HC's as an example - how about Chip Kelly? He went from the dominant football power that was New Hampshire to the OC position at Oregon. Turned out ok for Oregon I think.

We'll just go down the line of the top 25...

Gene Chizik, dud at lowly Iowa State to national champion at Auburn in 2 years.

Gary Patterson, New Mexico to TCU - I think TCU is pretty happy w/ their hire from New Mexico. (I dont't think State is really that much farther down the pole)

Jim Harbaugh, University of San Diego before Stanford - not to bad of a catch from a lowly institution.

Jim Tressel, Youngstown State - that's right up there as one of the top programs in the country right?

I could continue on...nearly every great coach out there right now got their start because they had success at one of these such programs. You want a "proven" coach for Nebraska? GOOD LUCK. Lincoln isn't Hollywood, and the winters don't include time at the beach.
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I do think a "high profile" position coach (if such a thing does exsist) would come here. And I understand that teams have had success picking coaches from obscure schools. You can give me all the anecdotal evidence in the world, but I'd much rather go with a safer bet, period.

Chizik- Lulz if you think he is responsable for the VAST majority of the success Auburn had this season. If the Tigers had a fern wearing a visor as their head coach, they still would have won at least 12 games.

Patterson- TCU's "elite" status has only been a fairly recent phenomenon. Certainly, they had success in the last two years of Franchione, but most would agree that they were NOT a top-teir program at the time. Also, New Mexico and New Mexico State are two different colleges, if you weren't aware. The Lobos went to a WAC championship during Patterson's tenure there.

Harbaugh- Had NFL experience before getting picked up at San Diego and had outstanding success there, before Stanford (NOT an elite football program at the time) picked him up.

Tressel- Had immidate and outstanding success at Youngstown State.

Do you see a trend here? All of the examples you provided were either schools that A: were NOT top-teir programs that fit coaches to their needs/budgets, or B: hired lower profile coaches that had OUTSTANDING success. When, in the last five years, have you looked at the awesome power that is the Ohio Bobcat linebacker corps and said to yourself "damn, I want me some of that!"?

 
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You guys do realize we are talking about a position coach correct? Not a coordinator position. I'm sorry but there just aren't a lot of "hot" position coaches in college football. So even if you want the "hot" hire you're not going to get it for LB. You might for a DC, OC, or Head cheese but not at the assistant coach levels. It doesn't work that way. Els would be a solid hire and it looks like that's the direction its going to be and I would guess that would come after signing day. Right now Jamrog is too important out recruiting NE and looking for walk ons.

Also from the conversations I had over the weekend I would not expect any changes on the offensive side at this point and if there are its going to be done in hindsight kind of a thing. Sounds like a shift in some responsibilities perhaps, and some philosophies but at this point not in personnel. Its too bad because as I understand it our OC isn't recruiting. I think he is breaking down B10 films instead. I'm not sure which is more important at this point the way our class is finishing up.

 
Roark said:
I do think a "high profile" position coach (if such a thing does exsist) would come here. And I understand that teams have had success picking coaches from obscure schools. You can give me all the anecdotal evidence in the world, but I'd much rather go with a safer bet, period.

Chizik- Lulz if you think he is responsable for the VAST majority of the success Auburn had this season. If the Tigers had a fern wearing a visor as their head coach, they still would have won at least 12 games.

Patterson- TCU's "elite" status has only been a fairly recent phenomenon. Certainly, they had success in the last two years of Franchione, but most would agree that they were NOT a top-teir program at the time. Also, New Mexico and New Mexico State are two different colleges, if you weren't aware. The Lobos went to a WAC championship during Patterson's tenure there.

Harbaugh- Had NFL experience before getting picked up at San Diego and had outstanding success there, before Stanford (NOT an elite football program at the time) picked him up.

Tressel- Had immidate and outstanding success at Youngstown State.

Do you see a trend here? All of the examples you provided were either schools that A: were NOT top-teir programs that fit coaches to their needs/budgets, or B: hired lower profile coaches that had OUTSTANDING success. When, in the last five years, have you looked at the awesome power that is the Ohio Bobcat linebacker corps and said to yourself "damn, I want me some of that!"?
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So if you are correct, who do we hire? And how exactly do we pry them away from wherever they currently coach?

 
RedDenver said:
Roark said:
I do think a "high profile" position coach (if such a thing does exsist) would come here. And I understand that teams have had success picking coaches from obscure schools. You can give me all the anecdotal evidence in the world, but I'd much rather go with a safer bet, period.

Chizik- Lulz if you think he is responsable for the VAST majority of the success Auburn had this season. If the Tigers had a fern wearing a visor as their head coach, they still would have won at least 12 games.

Patterson- TCU's "elite" status has only been a fairly recent phenomenon. Certainly, they had success in the last two years of Franchione, but most would agree that they were NOT a top-teir program at the time. Also, New Mexico and New Mexico State are two different colleges, if you weren't aware. The Lobos went to a WAC championship during Patterson's tenure there.

Harbaugh- Had NFL experience before getting picked up at San Diego and had outstanding success there, before Stanford (NOT an elite football program at the time) picked him up.

Tressel- Had immidate and outstanding success at Youngstown State.

Do you see a trend here? All of the examples you provided were either schools that A: were NOT top-teir programs that fit coaches to their needs/budgets, or B: hired lower profile coaches that had OUTSTANDING success. When, in the last five years, have you looked at the awesome power that is the Ohio Bobcat linebacker corps and said to yourself "damn, I want me some of that!"?
Click to expand...
So if you are correct, who do we hire? And how exactly do we pry them away from wherever they currently coach?
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Who do we hire? Oh, I'm not feeling up to look at which teams have produced top linebackers in the past few years... I know that Stanford and Tennessee have sent some guys to the NFL in the last half-decade... How do we get them? Money.

 
Roark said:
Who do we hire? Oh, I'm not feeling up to look at which teams have produced top linebackers in the past few years... I know that Stanford and Tennessee have sent some guys to the NFL in the last half-decade... How do we get them? Money.
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Not sure "linebackers to the NFL" is really how I'd build my candidate list. But, since you're lazy I'll humor you and help ya out... :)

Last 4 years...first 4 rounds

TOP TEAMS BY LB's IN NFL

USC (6)

PENN STATE (4)

FLORIDA STATE (2)

MIAMI (2)

MISSOURI (2)

OHIO STATE (2)

SOUTH FLORIDA (2)

WISCONSIN (2)

TOP COACHES BY LB's IN NFL

Ken Norton Jr (USC) - Currently with the Seahawks

Ron Vanderlinden (Penn State since 2001) - No Salary Info

Chuck Amato (Florida State) - Currently unemployed after battling cancer. Plans to return in 2011

Micheal Barrow (Miami) - Not sure if still on Miami staff.

Dave Steckel (Missouri) - Salary $400,000+-

Luke Fickell (Ohio State) - Salary $300,000+-

David Blackwell (South Florida - really only his 1st year) - MIA

Dave Doeren (Wisconsin) - Salaray $300,000+-

SUMMARY

About 30 linebacker coaches have sent players to the NFL in the first 4 rounds. Ekeler currently makes around $200,000. To get a top tier linebacker coach, they'll need to be making right around $400,000 I would assume. That means that Carl/Watson need at least a $200,000 raise to ensure our coordinators are making more. Then we'd need to give raises for the other staff that has put in their time because politically paying a new guy $200,000 more than everyone else would be an issue. Figure about $50-100,000 for each of the other 6 coaches to at least give them something. That puts the cost of this new top tier linebacker coach right around $1,200,000 a year more than current levels, conservatively.

The only 2 on the board that have put linebackers into the NFL in large numbers are USC/Penn State. Norton won't be leaving the Seahawks any time soon, and I don't see Vanderlinden moving to another Big10 team after 10 years at Penn State. Steckel is firmly at Missouri, and Fickell won't be leaving Ohio State. Same goes for Doeren.

That leaves you with David Blackwell, Micheal Barrow, and Chuck Amato. Out of the 3, I like Chuck Amato. He was at Florida State competing against Osborne through the 90's, and has a fair amount of head coaching experience at NC State. He wants back into coaching, it's just a question of how damaging the cancer was, but all indications point to him wanting to come back for 2011.

DATA

2010

Alabama

Missouri

TCU

Penn State

Florida

Iowa

Washington

Penn State

Georgia

USC

Nortwestern

Ohio State

North Carolina

Wisconsin

2009

Wake Forest

USC (4)

Ohio State

Virginia

Western Illinois

Wisconsin

South Florida

2008

USC

Tennessee

Oklahoma

Colorado

Miami

Penn State

Michigan

Georgia Tech

UNLV

Virginia Tech

BYU

Purdue

2007

Ole Miss

Florida State

Miami

Penn State

Michigan

Hampton

New Mexico

Florida State

Nebraska

Stanford

Clemson

South Florida

Missouri

Brown

Florida International

Pittsburg

 
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kchusker_chris said:
Roark said:
Who do we hire? Oh, I'm not feeling up to look at which teams have produced top linebackers in the past few years... I know that Stanford and Tennessee have sent some guys to the NFL in the last half-decade... How do we get them? Money.
Click to expand...
Not sure "linebackers to the NFL" is really how I'd build my candidate list. But, since you're lazy I'll humor you and help ya out... :)

Last 4 years...first 4 rounds

TOP TEAMS BY LB's IN NFL

USC (6)

PENN STATE (4)

FLORIDA STATE (2)

MIAMI (2)

MISSOURI (2)

OHIO STATE (2)

SOUTH FLORIDA (2)

WISCONSIN (2)

TOP COACHES BY LB's IN NFL

Ken Norton Jr (USC) - Currently with the Seahawks

Ron Vanderlinden (Penn State since 2001) - No Salary Info

Chuck Amato (Florida State) - Currently unemployed after battling cancer. Plans to return in 2011

Micheal Barrow (Miami) - Not sure if still on Miami staff.

Dave Steckel (Missouri) - Salary $400,000+-

Luke Fickell (Ohio State) - Salary $300,000+-

David Blackwell (South Florida - really only his 1st year) - MIA

Dave Doeren (Wisconsin) - Salaray $300,000+-

SUMMARY

About 30 linebacker coaches have sent players to the NFL in the first 4 rounds. Ekeler currently makes around $200,000. To get a top tier linebacker coach, they'll need to be making right around $400,000 I would assume. That means that Carl/Watson need at least a $200,000 raise to ensure our coordinators are making more. Then we'd need to give raises for the other staff that has put in their time because politically paying a new guy $200,000 more than everyone else would be an issue. Figure about $50-100,000 for each of the other 6 coaches to at least give them something. That puts the cost of this new top tier linebacker coach right around $1,200,000 a year more than current levels, conservatively.

The only 2 on the board that have put linebackers into the NFL in large numbers are USC/Penn State. Norton won't be leaving the Seahawks any time soon, and I don't see Vanderlinden moving to another Big10 team after 10 years at Penn State. Steckel is firmly at Missouri, and Fickell won't be leaving Ohio State. Same goes for Doeren.

That leaves you with David Blackwell, Micheal Barrow, and Chuck Amato. Out of the 3, I like Chuck Amato. He was at Florida State competing against Osborne through the 90's, and has a fair amount of head coaching experience at NC State. He wants back into coaching, it's just a question of how damaging the cancer was, but all indications point to him wanting to come back for 2011.

DATA

2010

Alabama

Missouri

TCU

Penn State

Florida

Iowa

Washington

Penn State

Georgia

USC

Nortwestern

Ohio State

North Carolina

Wisconsin

2009

Wake Forest

USC (4)

Ohio State

Virginia

Western Illinois

Wisconsin

South Florida

2008

USC

Tennessee

Oklahoma

Colorado

Miami

Penn State

Michigan

Georgia Tech

UNLV

Virginia Tech

BYU

Purdue

2007

Ole Miss

Florida State

Miami

Penn State

Michigan

Hampton

New Mexico

Florida State

Nebraska

Stanford

Clemson

South Florida

Missouri

Brown

Florida International

Pittsburg
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Umm. . . .you do realize that Carl and Wats are the 2 and 3rd highest paid assistant coaches respectively in the Big 10 right? You're mistaken or smoke'n something really special if you think a LB coach is going to make 400 g's.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/21301/big-ten-aides-not-among-highest-paid

 
da skers said:
Umm. . . .you do realize that Carl and Wats are the 2 and 3rd highest paid assistant coaches respectively in the Big 10 right? You're mistaken or smoke'n something really special if you think a LB coach is going to make 400 g's.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/21301/big-ten-aides-not-among-highest-paid
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So you post and article discussing the fact that Big10 assistant coaches are underpaid as your basis? Carl/Wats being "almost" the highest paid assistants in the Big10 still means there are 50 other coordinators and position coaches paid more than them.

Did you read the previous posts that I was refering too? I think you might have missed the last 20 posts or so which puts things into context a little more. Those are the ones where Roark wants to go out and get the biggest name possible because New Mexico State & Ohio aren't solid enough programs. As he said, big name means big money.

I like how I put all that data together and you guys go off on me because of a few salary figures LOL. :facepalm: Do you think Chuck Amato or one of those other coaches (coordinators or not) the data provided would come here for less than 400k? I don't think we'll be paying 400k to a LB coach either, but that's why we won't be getting any of the names on that list.

It's not as though there aren't plenty of position coaches out there making around 400k...quick look and I come up with...

pay + bonus

Joe Pendry (Alabama OL coach) - 423k + 85k

Sal Sunseri (Alabama LB coach) - 350k + 70k

Ron Cooper (LSU DB coach) - 310k + 70k

Duane Akina (Texas) - 320k + 45k

Hell, even Scott Frost (145k + 285k) probably banked close to 400k this year since I'm sure w/ them reaching the NC game they nearly maxed out their bonuses. Every single person on the Oregon staff made over 400k this year. And we want to get Frost in as a receiver coach, or some big name for a LB coach? If you want the big name, prepare to pay big bucks...don't call me out for suggesting it. You'd have to be smoking something to think that 400k is so far out there for a name like Frost/Amato or other position coaches working at NC contending schools. Face it, if we only want to pay 175k for our LB coach, we'll be getting someone from New Mexico State or Ohio. (and there's nothing wrong w/ that as I've stated many times - but that was the point of the post)

 
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We dont need any big time position coaches to come here. Im sure Bo has got a list of guys he likes. Just like in 2008 when this staff was put together, their were some no names on the list. Ekeler and Papuchis were freakin GRAD/INTERN assistants at LSU before they came here. Ekeler eventually went to Indiana as defensive coordinator. Papuchis is one the most sot after defensive assistants in the country. Remember the rumors were flying he could go to Texas to be with Muschamp after Mack Brown cleaned house.

 
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kchusker_chris said:
da skers said:
Umm. . . .you do realize that Carl and Wats are the 2 and 3rd highest paid assistant coaches respectively in the Big 10 right? You're mistaken or smoke'n something really special if you think a LB coach is going to make 400 g's.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/21301/big-ten-aides-not-among-highest-paid
Click to expand...
So you post and article discussing the fact that Big10 assistant coaches are underpaid as your basis? Carl/Wats being "almost" the highest paid assistants in the Big10 still means there are 50 other coordinators and position coaches paid more than them.

Did you read the previous posts that I was refering too? I think you might have missed the last 20 posts or so which puts things into context a little more. Those are the ones where Roark wants to go out and get the biggest name possible because New Mexico State & Ohio aren't solid enough programs. As he said, big name means big money.

I like how I put all that data together and you guys go off on me because of a few salary figures LOL. :facepalm: Do you think Chuck Amato or one of those other coaches (coordinators or not) the data provided would come here for less than 400k? I don't think we'll be paying 400k to a LB coach either, but that's why we won't be getting any of the names on that list.

It's not as though there aren't plenty of position coaches out there making around 400k...quick look and I come up with...

pay + bonus

Joe Pendry (Alabama OL coach) - 423k + 85k

Sal Sunseri (Alabama LB coach) - 350k + 70k

Ron Cooper (LSU DB coach) - 310k + 70k

Duane Akina (Texas) - 320k + 45k

Hell, even Scott Frost (145k + 285k) probably banked close to 400k this year since I'm sure w/ them reaching the NC game they nearly maxed out their bonuses. Every single person on the Oregon staff made over 400k this year. And we want to get Frost in as a receiver coach, or some big name for a LB coach? If you want the big name, prepare to pay big bucks...don't call me out for suggesting it. You'd have to be smoking something to think that 400k is so far out there for a name like Frost/Amato or other position coaches working at NC contending schools. Face it, if we only want to pay 175k for our LB coach, we'll be getting someone from New Mexico State or Ohio. (and there's nothing wrong w/ that as I've stated many times - but that was the point of the post)
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I'll point out the obvious, which has pretty much been my only point in everything I've posted since the beginning of this thread if you'd so kindly read. We are not going to pay that kind of money for a LB coach. We are not going to look for a big name coach for what is usually the lowest paid position on the defensive side of the ball. I posted that article as a reference to the actual salary figures. We are not going to pay a position coach more than what the coordinators in the league make. Our staff was one of the better paid in B12. . .we are going to be very close to the top in the B10. Do they deserve more money. . maybe. . but they aren't going to get it at this time.

Besides. . you're listing exceptions to the rule as far coaches rather than the rule to try and make your point. Gee just so you know there are actors who make millions and millions per movie they do but reality is most make anywhere from 25,000-70,000 per year.

And I never said they were getting a big name coach or should go after one because they just don't exist at position coach levels. They're getting a solid coach who's not real sexy. Yes. . they're bring in Els.

 
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