1620: Niles Paul on 1620 and his future/Offense's Change

[knapplc]

I'll put my trust in the people who were in practices, going through the reps on a daily basis. Cody Green was going to be the starter, and we were going to run more in the mold of the 2008 offense. But Taylor threw his fit, then came back and impressed in a couple of practices and the rest, like our hopes of a confernce title and BCS game in 2010 are history.

Also, Nebraska offered around 10 QB's this year, 4 of them were pass first QB's, we just happened to get Jamal and Bubba.

For 2012, you will continue to see NU recruit a wide range of QB's in talent. Pelini knows you can't just be one-dimensional and expect to be a contender for a Big Ten or national title.

The bold is BS. We were up 17-0 with a banged-up run-first QB at the helm. You can NOT lay that loss on Martinez. That was a TEAM LOSS. If the TEAM doesn't fold on OFF and DEF we win the conference and go to a BCS bowl. I can't imagine anyone would call that an unsuccessful year, and it all happened despite this revisionist history hysteria we have cropping up. Again.

 

[HuskerNMO]

I'll put my trust in the people who were in practices, going through the reps on a daily basis. Cody Green was going to be the starter, and we were going to run more in the mold of the 2008 offense. But Taylor threw his fit, then came back and impressed in a couple of practices and the rest, like our hopes of a conference title and BCS game in 2010 are history.

Also, Nebraska offered around 10 QB's this year, 4 of them were pass first QB's, we just happened to get Jamal and Bubba.

For 2012, you will continue to see NU recruit a wide range of QB's in talent. Pelini knows you can't just be one-dimensional and expect to be a contender for a Big Ten or national title.

The bold is BS. We were up 17-0 with a banged-up run-first QB at the helm. You can NOT lay that loss on Martinez. That was a TEAM LOSS. If the TEAM doesn't fold on OFF and DEF we win the conference and go to a BCS bowl. I can't imagine anyone would call that an unsuccessful year, and it all happened despite this revisionist history hysteria we have cropping up. Again.

Sure you can, the pick in the end zone when he should have thrown it away, the sacks he took when he should have thrown the ball away. Or his 3 fumbles in the game? That loss was a result of poor QB play, yes, there were other factors, but QB play as the biggest.

 

[Hercules]

I'll put my trust in the people who were in practices, going through the reps on a daily basis. Cody Green was going to be the starter, and we were going to run more in the mold of the 2008 offense. But Taylor threw his fit, then came back and impressed in a couple of practices and the rest, like our hopes of a conference title and BCS game in 2010 are history.

Also, Nebraska offered around 10 QB's this year, 4 of them were pass first QB's, we just happened to get Jamal and Bubba.

For 2012, you will continue to see NU recruit a wide range of QB's in talent. Pelini knows you can't just be one-dimensional and expect to be a contender for a Big Ten or national title.

The bold is BS. We were up 17-0 with a banged-up run-first QB at the helm. You can NOT lay that loss on Martinez. That was a TEAM LOSS. If the TEAM doesn't fold on OFF and DEF we win the conference and go to a BCS bowl. I can't imagine anyone would call that an unsuccessful year, and it all happened despite this revisionist history hysteria we have cropping up. Again.

Sure you can, the pick in the end zone when he should have thrown it away, the sacks he took when he should have thrown the ball away. Or his 3 fumbles in the game? That loss was a result of poor QB play, yes, there were other factors, but QB play as the biggest.

I'm sure Cody Green or Zac Lee would have been the difference that won the game. Other than the fact that neither of them demonstrated anything all season long to make that case, it makes perfect sense.

 

[HuskerNMO]

I'll put my trust in the people who were in practices, going through the reps on a daily basis. Cody Green was going to be the starter, and we were going to run more in the mold of the 2008 offense. But Taylor threw his fit, then came back and impressed in a couple of practices and the rest, like our hopes of a conference title and BCS game in 2010 are history.

Also, Nebraska offered around 10 QB's this year, 4 of them were pass first QB's, we just happened to get Jamal and Bubba.

For 2012, you will continue to see NU recruit a wide range of QB's in talent. Pelini knows you can't just be one-dimensional and expect to be a contender for a Big Ten or national title.

The bold is BS. We were up 17-0 with a banged-up run-first QB at the helm. You can NOT lay that loss on Martinez. That was a TEAM LOSS. If the TEAM doesn't fold on OFF and DEF we win the conference and go to a BCS bowl. I can't imagine anyone would call that an unsuccessful year, and it all happened despite this revisionist history hysteria we have cropping up. Again.

Sure you can, the pick in the end zone when he should have thrown it away, the sacks he took when he should have thrown the ball away. Or his 3 fumbles in the game? That loss was a result of poor QB play, yes, there were other factors, but QB play as the biggest.

I'm sure Cody Green or Zac Lee would have been the difference that won the game. Other than the fact that neither of them demonstrated anything all season long to make that case, it makes perfect sense.

It really doesn't matter, we can't go back and replay those games.

Taylor's CCG was horrible, you can't deny that, and since Cody or Zac weren't given a chance, it's just opinion on them making a difference.

I would take a healthy Cody over an injured Taylor any day, I would also take a healthy Cody over a healthy Taylor as our starting QB. But that's more about leadership and running an offense than pure talent and athleticism.

 

[knapplc]

I'll put my trust in the people who were in practices, going through the reps on a daily basis. Cody Green was going to be the starter, and we were going to run more in the mold of the 2008 offense. But Taylor threw his fit, then came back and impressed in a couple of practices and the rest, like our hopes of a conference title and BCS game in 2010 are history.

Also, Nebraska offered around 10 QB's this year, 4 of them were pass first QB's, we just happened to get Jamal and Bubba.

For 2012, you will continue to see NU recruit a wide range of QB's in talent. Pelini knows you can't just be one-dimensional and expect to be a contender for a Big Ten or national title.

The bold is BS. We were up 17-0 with a banged-up run-first QB at the helm. You can NOT lay that loss on Martinez. That was a TEAM LOSS. If the TEAM doesn't fold on OFF and DEF we win the conference and go to a BCS bowl. I can't imagine anyone would call that an unsuccessful year, and it all happened despite this revisionist history hysteria we have cropping up. Again.

Sure you can, the pick in the end zone when he should have thrown it away, the sacks he took when he should have thrown the ball away. Or his 3 fumbles in the game? That loss was a result of poor QB play, yes, there were other factors, but QB play as the biggest.

I'm sure Cody Green or Zac Lee would have been the difference that won the game. Other than the fact that neither of them demonstrated anything all season long to make that case, it makes perfect sense.

It really doesn't matter, we can't go back and replay those games.

Taylor's CCG was horrible, you can't deny that, and since Cody or Zac weren't given a chance, it's just opinion on them making a difference.

I would take a healthy Cody over an injured Taylor any day, I would also take a healthy Cody over a healthy Taylor as our starting QB. But that's more about leadership and running an offense than pure talent and athleticism.

Out of curiosity, which games of Cody's can you cite which makes you feel this way? I don't recall Cody beating a good team through HIS play on the field. Help?

 

[Hercules]

I'll put my trust in the people who were in practices, going through the reps on a daily basis. Cody Green was going to be the starter, and we were going to run more in the mold of the 2008 offense. But Taylor threw his fit, then came back and impressed in a couple of practices and the rest, like our hopes of a conference title and BCS game in 2010 are history.

Also, Nebraska offered around 10 QB's this year, 4 of them were pass first QB's, we just happened to get Jamal and Bubba.

For 2012, you will continue to see NU recruit a wide range of QB's in talent. Pelini knows you can't just be one-dimensional and expect to be a contender for a Big Ten or national title.

The bold is BS. We were up 17-0 with a banged-up run-first QB at the helm. You can NOT lay that loss on Martinez. That was a TEAM LOSS. If the TEAM doesn't fold on OFF and DEF we win the conference and go to a BCS bowl. I can't imagine anyone would call that an unsuccessful year, and it all happened despite this revisionist history hysteria we have cropping up. Again.

Sure you can, the pick in the end zone when he should have thrown it away, the sacks he took when he should have thrown the ball away. Or his 3 fumbles in the game? That loss was a result of poor QB play, yes, there were other factors, but QB play as the biggest.

I'm sure Cody Green or Zac Lee would have been the difference that won the game. Other than the fact that neither of them demonstrated anything all season long to make that case, it makes perfect sense.

It really doesn't matter, we can't go back and replay those games.

Taylor's CCG was horrible, you can't deny that, and since Cody or Zac weren't given a chance, it's just opinion on them making a difference.

I would take a healthy Cody over an injured Taylor any day, I would also take a healthy Cody over a healthy Taylor as our starting QB. But that's more about leadership and running an offense than pure talent and athleticism.

I agree that you can't replay the games, but it's worthless to go back and say that someone else should have been playing, because there's no evidence for anything, it's all hypothetical. It doesn't help to find any solutions to existing problems, it's just the meaningless act of pointing fingers for no reason.

If Cody or Zac was "the guy," then he'd have been, "the guy." Zac Lee had every opportunity to become that guy against Texas, and he suffered the exact same fate as Martinez, victim of their wide receivers. Lee also could've taken the reins against Missouri, but in 2.5 quarters with Lee at the helm, Nebraska managed exactly 7 points, compared to the 24 they managed with Martinez at the helm in the first quarter and a half.

Cody Green had multiple opportunities throughout the season, whether it was against Iowa State, where it first became clear that our running back was the 2nd best QB on the team, or against Colorado, where it was again made clear that our running back was the 2nd best QB on the team, or against Washington, where Cody's fumble let Washington back into a game Martinez had dominated, or against Washington again where despite being completely healthy he was as ineffective as an injured Martinez.

So again, if Zac Lee and Cody Green had at any point in this entire season shown that they deserved to be the guy, I'd be willing to listen. But they never did, and it wasn't because they didn't have a chance. Eric Crouch took the job from Bobby Newcombe during mop-up time and during practice. Crouch took the job mid-season because he made plays. Taylor Martinez made plays, Lee and Green didn't, and that's why Martinez won the job.

 

[Apathy]

First of all, I think that's Niles' MO. Dude gets off on rising up when the cards are stacked against him. And on to the Watson part... My uncle is an O coordinator for a college football team. He rolls with Watson and breaks down game film, studies tendancies, etc (loves the dude)... Over Christmas I spent a ton of time arguing with him about the Wats. The thing I took from it is this: dude is a very smart guy. Dude also recruits well for the qb position. Unfortunately, dude can't put it all together. It's great to have the knowledge and the athletes to succeed at this level, but you must be effective with the decisions you make for said players. If what Niles said is true (changing offense immediately before the season), then Watson totally reinforced everything people have been saying about him for month. Seems like Watson is in over his head and he may be more proficient as a QB coach...

Are you talking about

This dude

or This Dude

 

[wilber24]

the crying of Paul is over, time to move on. The supposidly playmaker had his chances, but really seemed to fumble a lot.

 

[bshirt]

Pelini said in the middle of the year that they had originally thought Cody Green was going to be the starter, not Zac Lee, and we saw throughout the first several games that Cody Green was solidly the second string QB.

I can buy the idea that the run/pass ratio shifted when Martinez took over for good, but I don't buy the idea that their offensive philosophy changed. Bo has wanted a run-first offense since he came here, and Martinez is the first QB we've had that has actually enabled that. We were recruiting Jamal Turner and Bubba Starling and Brion Carnes BEFORE Taylor Martinez won the starting job, and those guys are a clear reflection of the offensive philosophy we showed this year.

If you were going to pinpoint where our offensive philosophy changed drastically, I'd look more towards the middle of 2009. The offense tanks against Texas Tech and Iowa State, and things start changing. First, Cody Green gets a couple starts at QB, largely because he is a threat to run. When it becomes clear he isn't ready, we go back to Lee, but in an offense that is focused primarily on power running, because it played to our only strengths and minimized our turnover troubles. Our one QB recruit, Tyler Gabbert, who would have fit the Joe Ganz offense, decommits, and we follow that up with commitments from running QBs such as Turner and Carnes. When we finally get healthy and have time to do install during bowl practices, we show a CLEAR move in the direction of the spread option during the Holiday Bowl.

This shift in philosophy has been in motion for a long time, it didn't happen overnight during fall camp.

I'd also be a lot more willing to listen to these QB/offensive philosophy arguments if at any point in this season Zac Lee or Cody Green actually looked better than Taylor Martinez. But they never did.

100% correct.

Throw in how horrible Zac freakin Lee looked vs any non-Sunbelt team last year and it's a true mystery why some paint Tmart starting this year as a "sacrifice" so Bo could go to a run based offense.

Lol! It's really crazy...

 

[bshirt]

the crying of Paul is over, time to move on. The supposidly playmaker had his chances, but really seemed to fumble a lot.

"Seemed" to fumble a lot?

 

[Apathy]

the crying of Paul is over, time to move on. The supposidly playmaker had his chances, but really seemed to fumble a lot.

"Seemed" to fumble a lot?

I thought that you had to catch the ball first in order to fumble it!?!?!?!

 

[wilber24]

the crying of Paul is over, time to move on. The supposidly playmaker had his chances, but really seemed to fumble a lot.

"Seemed" to fumble a lot?

Your right, the supposidly playmaker, DID fumble alot!!

 

[HuskerNMO]

I'll put my trust in the people who were in practices, going through the reps on a daily basis. Cody Green was going to be the starter, and we were going to run more in the mold of the 2008 offense. But Taylor threw his fit, then came back and impressed in a couple of practices and the rest, like our hopes of a conference title and BCS game in 2010 are history.

Also, Nebraska offered around 10 QB's this year, 4 of them were pass first QB's, we just happened to get Jamal and Bubba.

For 2012, you will continue to see NU recruit a wide range of QB's in talent. Pelini knows you can't just be one-dimensional and expect to be a contender for a Big Ten or national title.

The bold is BS. We were up 17-0 with a banged-up run-first QB at the helm. You can NOT lay that loss on Martinez. That was a TEAM LOSS. If the TEAM doesn't fold on OFF and DEF we win the conference and go to a BCS bowl. I can't imagine anyone would call that an unsuccessful year, and it all happened despite this revisionist history hysteria we have cropping up. Again.

Sure you can, the pick in the end zone when he should have thrown it away, the sacks he took when he should have thrown the ball away. Or his 3 fumbles in the game? That loss was a result of poor QB play, yes, there were other factors, but QB play as the biggest.

I'm sure Cody Green or Zac Lee would have been the difference that won the game. Other than the fact that neither of them demonstrated anything all season long to make that case, it makes perfect sense.

It really doesn't matter, we can't go back and replay those games.

Taylor's CCG was horrible, you can't deny that, and since Cody or Zac weren't given a chance, it's just opinion on them making a difference.

I would take a healthy Cody over an injured Taylor any day, I would also take a healthy Cody over a healthy Taylor as our starting QB. But that's more about leadership and running an offense than pure talent and athleticism.

Out of curiosity, which games of Cody's can you cite which makes you feel this way? I don't recall Cody beating a good team through HIS play on the field. Help?

Actually, here's the stats that support the theory

Taylor after the injury

56 Carries, 79 Yards ,1.41 YPC, 0 TD, 6 Fumbles

44 Completions, 76 Attempts, 470 Yards, 1 TD, 4 INT, 57.9% Comp %

Martinez, 4 starts, 1-3 and offense averages 13.3 PPG against defenses that allowed an average of 26.6 PPG went -13.3 ppg down the stretch

Green, 2 starts, 2-0 and offense averages 38 PPG against defenses that allowed an average of 29.8 PPG, so Cody led offenses went +8 PPG down the stretch

 

[knapplc]

I believe I mentioned Cody beating GOOD teams. Not scoring more than average against two mediocre teams, but beating GOOD teams.

Example, please. Just one example. In two years.

Crickets.....................................................................

 

[HuskerNMO]

I believe I mentioned Cody beating GOOD teams. Not scoring more than average against two mediocre teams, but beating GOOD teams.

Example, please. Just one example. In two years.

Crickets.....................................................................

Considering Cody has only been given starts against Baylor, a very down OU team last year, then Iowa State and Colorado, he hasn't had a chance.

The part you bolded was about injured Taylor vs a healthy Cody, we were 1-3 with an injured Taylor vs 2-0 with a healthy Cody. They were similar defenses stats wise, yet in the games Cody started we averaged 25 points more per game.