Shatel: Fans need to be patient with Beck

[kchusker_chris]

It's tough to tell. A "small improvement" in 2010 would have given us 12-13 wins - which is what everyone justifies this line of thinking with. The problem is, that "small improvement" people say they would be happy with might not have as big of an impact on results in 2011.

I'm sure if we could go back and do it over again, all these changes would have taken place last year - Beck would have delivered that small improvement and we'd have beat Connecticut in a BSC bowl game for our first BSC win in a long time. We probably would have beat Texas, but lost to Oklahoma State (i'm giving Watson a lot of credit for that win) - but we would have beat A&M to even it out.

Next year however - I'm not sure the margin of victory/loss will be so tight. There are a number of games on that schedule we are going to HAVE to put up more than 10 points to win. There are also a few in that list against some of the top defenses in the nation - which is something a "small improvement" won't be enough to overcome.

 

[Husker Richard]

I give him until halftime of the first game. If he doesn't "wow" me by then, I'm getting my pitchfork and torch

We need to form an angry mob, and storm Memorial Stadium.

Wouldn't that affect the sellout streak?

What sellout streak? There's no streak because all the people with tickets don't end up going to the game. Empty seats = Non-sellout. Duh.

:sarcasm

Just lol'ed to myself at the epic sellout streak thread from a few months ago.

 

[robsker]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect immediate improvement. Seems as though everyone is expecting Beck to fail his first year.

Immediate improvement... sure. The question is "how much improvement"?

If NU cuts the fumbles from 45-47 fumbles in 14 games (lost I think 16 of them) [these numbers are approximate --- but fairly close] --- and the number is reduced to say... 15 or so fumbles (losing perhaps 5) then some significant improvement will result. If the number of penalties on the OL are cut to less than half of what they were last year --- that too would help a great deal. If the number of needless sacks (throwing the ball away instead of eating the ball) are reduced from 10-12 on the season to 1 or 2 --- then that too helps a ton. If the number of dropped passes are cut in half --- again big improvement. So....

simply cutting a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes to reasonable numbers will mean a huge improvement in offense. And this is w/o any necessary improvement in anything other than discipline and basic fundamentals.

If this new staff does that and that alone --- NU moves from one of the weakest offenses among major conference programs to at least an average offense --- perhaps a bit better than average.

So... for me... the new style, the new emphasis, the new game-plan is not so much the point (as interesting as considering what the new O might look like might be) --- just keep these kids from self-destructing and the O improves a ton.

Of course... our competition this year is better than last... that need be factored in too.

So... patience in seeing the new O game-plan/approach prosper is needed --- but we should expect immediate better discipline/fundamentals --- if not... well then it matters not what the new O game-plan/approach turns out to be --- it will only prosper if the number of a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes are reduced to reasonable numbers.

 

[robsker]

As much as I agree with Shatel and hope that Husker fans do so, hes asking for a lot with the patience thing from Husker nation, I cant see it happening. Fans have had enough inept offensive production the past few years that Beck may have a year to start scoring points without people breathing down his back, IMO. Tough job he has.

I suspect you are correct in saying that the NU fans will expect fast results (with really big improvement) --- realistic... probably not --- but almost certainly what I'd expect the fan-base to do. I'd think 2 years is all he has... if the O does not produce by then... I'd guess the whole staff will be replaced and NU starts over again. That said, I'm thinking they will get some reasonable improvement and all will be fine. Nevertheless, you are right --- a tough job he has.

 

[The Dude]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect immediate improvement. Seems as though everyone is expecting Beck to fail his first year.

Immediate improvement... sure. The question is "how much improvement"?

If NU cuts the fumbles from 45-47 fumbles in 14 games (lost I think 16 of them) [these numbers are approximate --- but fairly close] --- and the number is reduced to say... 15 or so fumbles (losing perhaps 5) then some significant improvement will result. If the number of penalties on the OL are cut to less than half of what they were last year --- that too would help a great deal. If the number of needless sacks (throwing the ball away instead of eating the ball) are reduced from 10-12 on the season to 1 or 2 --- then that too helps a ton. If the number of dropped passes are cut in half --- again big improvement. So....

simply cutting a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes to reasonable numbers will mean a huge improvement in offense. And this is w/o any necessary improvement in anything other than discipline and basic fundamentals.

If this new staff does that and that alone --- NU moves from one of the weakest offenses among major conference programs to at least an average offense --- perhaps a bit better than average.

So... for me... the new style, the new emphasis, the new game-plan is not so much the point (as interesting as considering what the new O might look like might be) --- just keep these kids from self-destructing and the O improves a ton.

Of course... our competition this year is better than last... that need be factored in too.

So... patience in seeing the new O game-plan/approach prosper is needed --- but we should expect immediate better discipline/fundamentals --- if not... well then it matters not what the new O game-plan/approach turns out to be --- it will only prosper if the number of a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes are reduced to reasonable numbers.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[I am I]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect immediate improvement. Seems as though everyone is expecting Beck to fail his first year.

Immediate improvement... sure. The question is "how much improvement"?

If NU cuts the fumbles from 45-47 fumbles in 14 games (lost I think 16 of them) [these numbers are approximate --- but fairly close] --- and the number is reduced to say... 15 or so fumbles (losing perhaps 5) then some significant improvement will result. If the number of penalties on the OL are cut to less than half of what they were last year --- that too would help a great deal. If the number of needless sacks (throwing the ball away instead of eating the ball) are reduced from 10-12 on the season to 1 or 2 --- then that too helps a ton. If the number of dropped passes are cut in half --- again big improvement. So....

simply cutting a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes to reasonable numbers will mean a huge improvement in offense. And this is w/o any necessary improvement in anything other than discipline and basic fundamentals.

If this new staff does that and that alone --- NU moves from one of the weakest offenses among major conference programs to at least an average offense --- perhaps a bit better than average.

So... for me... the new style, the new emphasis, the new game-plan is not so much the point (as interesting as considering what the new O might look like might be) --- just keep these kids from self-destructing and the O improves a ton.

Of course... our competition this year is better than last... that need be factored in too.

So... patience in seeing the new O game-plan/approach prosper is needed --- but we should expect immediate better discipline/fundamentals --- if not... well then it matters not what the new O game-plan/approach turns out to be --- it will only prosper if the number of a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes are reduced to reasonable numbers.

amen. Removing watsgrove will mean some f'ing execution at the very LEAST.

Argue that zoogies. We will improve having watsgrove gone, despite new challenges a first yr OC will face:

addition by subtraction

btw,greetIngs huskers, from Germany.

 

[junior4949]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect immediate improvement. Seems as though everyone is expecting Beck to fail his first year.

Immediate improvement... sure. The question is "how much improvement"?

If NU cuts the fumbles from 45-47 fumbles in 14 games (lost I think 16 of them) [these numbers are approximate --- but fairly close] --- and the number is reduced to say... 15 or so fumbles (losing perhaps 5) then some significant improvement will result. If the number of penalties on the OL are cut to less than half of what they were last year --- that too would help a great deal. If the number of needless sacks (throwing the ball away instead of eating the ball) are reduced from 10-12 on the season to 1 or 2 --- then that too helps a ton. If the number of dropped passes are cut in half --- again big improvement. So....

simply cutting a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes to reasonable numbers will mean a huge improvement in offense. And this is w/o any necessary improvement in anything other than discipline and basic fundamentals.

If this new staff does that and that alone --- NU moves from one of the weakest offenses among major conference programs to at least an average offense --- perhaps a bit better than average.

So... for me... the new style, the new emphasis, the new game-plan is not so much the point (as interesting as considering what the new O might look like might be) --- just keep these kids from self-destructing and the O improves a ton.

Of course... our competition this year is better than last... that need be factored in too.

So... patience in seeing the new O game-plan/approach prosper is needed --- but we should expect immediate better discipline/fundamentals --- if not... well then it matters not what the new O game-plan/approach turns out to be --- it will only prosper if the number of a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes are reduced to reasonable numbers.

Beck probably had a better ability to cut the number of fumbles in 2010 as a RB coach than he does as an OC. Dropped passes, again how much of the blame can be thrown at the OC? Most of the things you talk about fall on the position coaches rather than the OC. I'd like to think with Gilmore gone that dropped passes won't be as big of issue as it was last season. With Helu gone and Martinez a year under his belt, I'd like to think the fumbling issue will be resolved as well. I expect similar OL penalties and possibly sacks as in the past.

Unless we totally change philsophies on the offense, we should be better than last year because Martinez is a year older and more experienced. Plus, he's healthy. I don't think Beck's job will really be all that difficult considering he'll have a freshman all american taking the snaps.

 

[zoogs]

I think every time I talk about next year's offense, I say I think we will be better. Look at the playmakers alone we are getting in here. I don't believe that OL will be hit so hard with injuries for a third year in a row. We are getting some serious talent on offense, and some of the solid OL recruits are hopefully going to assert themselves in the rotation.

The connection with Watson and bad execution at times is tenuous. What about all the games where we had good execution? Injuries are again the story. Along with big huge weak links at WR and OL coaching. If Fisher gets the WR unit together and Garrison helps shore up the OL, then we are going to do a lot better. If the OL continues to have Barney's fingerprints all over it, then I hope 2011 is the last time that happens at Nebraska.

This staff is promising, but the kindest things we can say about it are "these guys can probably get on the same page", rather than "these guys are all outstanding coaches" (although at least Ron Brown is). I hope for the best. Beck seems like a smart, capable guy, so I'm hoping he knocks this one out of the park. At this point it is a projection, though.

Anyway, the "removing Watson, and now (_____ offensive problem from last year) won't happen again" is a projection. The second half of that statement is a prediction that could well come true, we'll just have to see.

 

[bshirt]

Removing "SW's horrible fluffball playcalling" is not a projection and should not be repeated next year. That alone is a major asset.

Removing the failed WCO schemes is not a projection and will help immediately. Maybe we find an identity and maybe we don't but ridding ourselves from yet another failed offensive scheme can only help.

Bo finally having his own coaching staff is not a projection and should help immediately.

Things look good to me!

 

[dubsker]

I give him until halftime of the first game. If he doesn't "wow" me by then, I'm getting my pitchfork and torch

We need to form an angry mob, and storm Memorial Stadium.

We need someone on standby to make angry phone calls to his house. We need some for sale signs also. I can do it if nobody else wants to.

 

[zoogs]

Things look pretty promising to me too, don't get me wrong.

Outside of one coach being retained when I feel he should be long gone, I'm kind of excited to see what this staff can do.

That said, I think we'll also see pretty soon what these guys are made of. I said before that I was on the fence as to the "Promote from within" vs "Bring in an established OC who brings his own staff with him" point. At the end of next year we should probably know if continuing on the current path is a good idea. If we don't see some real promise next year, it's likely we are just going to continue to bang our heads against the wall with a staff that will never quuite be able to put it all together. What bothers me is that once again, we will have to sort our opinions through the "Barney filter" in order to figure things out when things turn south. So as a sort of pre-defense of Coach Beck, we could both struggle a lot next year and still show promise.

 

[dubsker]

Things look pretty promising to me too, don't get me wrong.

Outside of one coach being retained when I feel he should be long gone, I'm kind of excited to see what this staff can do.

That said, I think we'll also see pretty soon what these guys are made of. I said before that I was on the fence as to the "Promote from within" vs "Bring in an established OC who brings his own staff with him" point. At the end of next year we should probably know if continuing on the current path is a good idea. If we don't see some real promise next year, it's likely we are just going to continue to bang our heads against the wall with a staff that will never quuite be able to put it all together. What bothers me is that once again, we will have to sort our opinions through the "Barney filter" in order to figure things out when things turn south. So as a sort of pre-defense of Coach Beck, we could both struggle a lot next year and still show promise.

I actually chose to run things through the Watson filter so I don't feel like what you've said is a given.

 

[Hunter94]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect immediate improvement. Seems as though everyone is expecting Beck to fail his first year.

Immediate improvement... sure. The question is "how much improvement"?

If NU cuts the fumbles from 45-47 fumbles in 14 games (lost I think 16 of them) [these numbers are approximate --- but fairly close] --- and the number is reduced to say... 15 or so fumbles (losing perhaps 5) then some significant improvement will result. If the number of penalties on the OL are cut to less than half of what they were last year --- that too would help a great deal. If the number of needless sacks (throwing the ball away instead of eating the ball) are reduced from 10-12 on the season to 1 or 2 --- then that too helps a ton. If the number of dropped passes are cut in half --- again big improvement. So....

simply cutting a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes to reasonable numbers will mean a huge improvement in offense. And this is w/o any necessary improvement in anything other than discipline and basic fundamentals.

If this new staff does that and that alone --- NU moves from one of the weakest offenses among major conference programs to at least an average offense --- perhaps a bit better than average.

So... for me... the new style, the new emphasis, the new game-plan is not so much the point (as interesting as considering what the new O might look like might be) --- just keep these kids from self-destructing and the O improves a ton.

Of course... our competition this year is better than last... that need be factored in too.

So... patience in seeing the new O game-plan/approach prosper is needed --- but we should expect immediate better discipline/fundamentals --- if not... well then it matters not what the new O game-plan/approach turns out to be --- it will only prosper if the number of a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes are reduced to reasonable numbers.

i understand your point here.....but i can't wait to see our offense climb the ladder to "average". :facepalm: ......which is what we concede to Beck in his first year.

 

[robsker]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect immediate improvement. Seems as though everyone is expecting Beck to fail his first year.

Immediate improvement... sure. The question is "how much improvement"?

If NU cuts the fumbles from 45-47 fumbles in 14 games (lost I think 16 of them) [these numbers are approximate --- but fairly close] --- and the number is reduced to say... 15 or so fumbles (losing perhaps 5) then some significant improvement will result. If the number of penalties on the OL are cut to less than half of what they were last year --- that too would help a great deal. If the number of needless sacks (throwing the ball away instead of eating the ball) are reduced from 10-12 on the season to 1 or 2 --- then that too helps a ton. If the number of dropped passes are cut in half --- again big improvement. So....

simply cutting a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes to reasonable numbers will mean a huge improvement in offense. And this is w/o any necessary improvement in anything other than discipline and basic fundamentals.

If this new staff does that and that alone --- NU moves from one of the weakest offenses among major conference programs to at least an average offense --- perhaps a bit better than average.

So... for me... the new style, the new emphasis, the new game-plan is not so much the point (as interesting as considering what the new O might look like might be) --- just keep these kids from self-destructing and the O improves a ton.

Of course... our competition this year is better than last... that need be factored in too.

So... patience in seeing the new O game-plan/approach prosper is needed --- but we should expect immediate better discipline/fundamentals --- if not... well then it matters not what the new O game-plan/approach turns out to be --- it will only prosper if the number of a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes are reduced to reasonable numbers.

i understand your point here.....but i can't wait to see our offense climb the ladder to "average". :facepalm: ......which is what we concede to Beck in his first year.

Hunter... my assessment may be a bit pessimistic... but I think not --- in the assessment of our offense from last year (and in this assessment factor in only conference games)--- were we better than the average Big 10, Big 12, SEC, ACC, PAC10 offense? I think not. in those 5 conferences there are ca. 55 or so teams --- I'd guess that our O was somewhere between #35-40 of the 55 or so teams. Our D would be in the top 5 or so. But the offense... lower to lower middle conference level.

If we do not self destruct and drop the penalties, the fumbles, the needless sacks, and dropped passes to manageable numbers the NU O could move into the middle or upper middle range (perhaps instead of #35-40 we could move into number 20-25). That would be a big difference.

I cannot see our offense doing much better than that based upon talent issues --- our OLine is upper middle caliber (at least in terms of developed talent --- some of the younger talent may be better than this... but only time will tell, our RB situation is hard to assess but likely only upper middle as well --- our WR's are lower level and so too are our QB's (unless some rather major improvement occurs). So... looking to have an average to slightly above average major-conference level offense is actually about as much improvement as one can expect.

 

[Hunter94]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect immediate improvement. Seems as though everyone is expecting Beck to fail his first year.

Immediate improvement... sure. The question is "how much improvement"?

If NU cuts the fumbles from 45-47 fumbles in 14 games (lost I think 16 of them) [these numbers are approximate --- but fairly close] --- and the number is reduced to say... 15 or so fumbles (losing perhaps 5) then some significant improvement will result. If the number of penalties on the OL are cut to less than half of what they were last year --- that too would help a great deal. If the number of needless sacks (throwing the ball away instead of eating the ball) are reduced from 10-12 on the season to 1 or 2 --- then that too helps a ton. If the number of dropped passes are cut in half --- again big improvement. So....

simply cutting a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes to reasonable numbers will mean a huge improvement in offense. And this is w/o any necessary improvement in anything other than discipline and basic fundamentals.

If this new staff does that and that alone --- NU moves from one of the weakest offenses among major conference programs to at least an average offense --- perhaps a bit better than average.

So... for me... the new style, the new emphasis, the new game-plan is not so much the point (as interesting as considering what the new O might look like might be) --- just keep these kids from self-destructing and the O improves a ton.

Of course... our competition this year is better than last... that need be factored in too.

So... patience in seeing the new O game-plan/approach prosper is needed --- but we should expect immediate better discipline/fundamentals --- if not... well then it matters not what the new O game-plan/approach turns out to be --- it will only prosper if the number of a) fumbles B) penalties c) needless sacks and d) dropped passes are reduced to reasonable numbers.

i understand your point here.....but i can't wait to see our offense climb the ladder to "average". :facepalm: ......which is what we concede to Beck in his first year.

Hunter... my assessment may be a bit pessimistic... but I think not --- in the assessment of our offense from last year (and in this assessment factor in only conference games)--- were we better than the average Big 10, Big 12, SEC, ACC, PAC10 offense? I think not. in those 5 conferences there are ca. 55 or so teams --- I'd guess that our O was somewhere between #35-40 of the 55 or so teams. Our D would be in the top 5 or so. But the offense... lower to lower middle conference level.

If we do not self destruct and drop the penalties, the fumbles, the needless sacks, and dropped passes to manageable numbers the NU O could move into the middle or upper middle range (perhaps instead of #35-40 we could move into number 20-25). That would be a big difference.

I cannot see our offense doing much better than that based upon talent issues --- our OLine is upper middle caliber (at least in terms of developed talent --- some of the younger talent may be better than this... but only time will tell, our RB situation is hard to assess but likely only upper middle as well --- our WR's are lower level and so too are our QB's (unless some rather major improvement occurs). So... looking to have an average to slightly above average major-conference level offense is actually about as much improvement as one can expect.

agree...even getting that far along may be a trick, lots of things to fix......lots.