Tim Beck" You can't be afraid to start over and junk everything."

[ADS]

One difference is your middle schoolers aren't going up against a Will Muschamp defense (or any D1 defense).

I think we could have slung it around more, but Texas had a great secondary, so I donno.

That was part of the problem anytime during the Callahan/Watson era when they did go up against a Will Mushamp kind of defense they were horrible and even hurt the team by turnovers going the other way.

So since it's been established that middle schoolers don't play against d1 athletes, anyone wanna seriously suggest that the roll out does not work in d1?

At some point there needed to be some kind of answer to the flooding of Caputo and the interior line that was seen at the end of the season, be it some kind of screen game or that. I don't think rolling out would have helped much vs Texas A&M (Von Miller at the Jack anyone) but against a team like UW... Like I said you have to do something... some kind of wrinkle when it's clear what you have isn't working. It might have been a triage of practice time issue I don't know.

Rollout, and how about a draw? The most simple way to keep a defense on its heels. And why we never ran one with a struggling QB? I guess no one will ever know.

 

[dubsker]

One difference is your middle schoolers aren't going up against a Will Muschamp defense (or any D1 defense).

I think we could have slung it around more, but Texas had a great secondary, so I donno.

That was part of the problem anytime during the Callahan/Watson era when they did go up against a Will Mushamp kind of defense they were horrible and even hurt the team by turnovers going the other way.

So since it's been established that middle schoolers don't play against d1 athletes, anyone wanna seriously suggest that the roll out does not work in d1?

At some point there needed to be some kind of answer to the flooding of Caputo and the interior line that was seen at the end of the season, be it some kind of screen game or that. I don't think rolling out would have helped much vs Texas A&M (Von Miller at the Jack anyone) but against a team like UW... Like I said you have to do something... some kind of wrinkle when it's clear what you have isn't working. It might have been a triage of practice time issue I don't know.

Rollout, and how about a draw? The most simple way to keep a defense on its heels. And why we never ran one with a struggling QB? I guess no one will ever know.

They ran designed QB draws but I can't remember if they ever did any to the RBs. I think a shovel or two to the inside was attempted but my memory on how effective that was is hazy. In the second half of the UW game I was just begging them to try to at least screen it to the outside and try to use the size of the WRs to the Os advantage. I think I got one for my trouble.

Yea it is all in hindsight so whatever. I am thinking about it and it might be a practice time issue? No time to install too many extras when your RS Freshman QB is still mastering the base package? Hindsight would have been putting in some more of those type of plays as part of the base O. Or maybe they were and they weren't called, or maybe he was still shy from OU in '08 and TTU in '09? Or maybe there's something else I don't know entirely. We'll never know...

 

[ADS]

One difference is your middle schoolers aren't going up against a Will Muschamp defense (or any D1 defense).

I think we could have slung it around more, but Texas had a great secondary, so I donno.

That was part of the problem anytime during the Callahan/Watson era when they did go up against a Will Mushamp kind of defense they were horrible and even hurt the team by turnovers going the other way.

So since it's been established that middle schoolers don't play against d1 athletes, anyone wanna seriously suggest that the roll out does not work in d1?

At some point there needed to be some kind of answer to the flooding of Caputo and the interior line that was seen at the end of the season, be it some kind of screen game or that. I don't think rolling out would have helped much vs Texas A&M (Von Miller at the Jack anyone) but against a team like UW... Like I said you have to do something... some kind of wrinkle when it's clear what you have isn't working. It might have been a triage of practice time issue I don't know.

Rollout, and how about a draw? The most simple way to keep a defense on its heels. And why we never ran one with a struggling QB? I guess no one will ever know.

They ran designed QB draws but I can't remember if they ever did any to the RBs. I think a shovel or two to the inside was attempted but my memory on how effective that was is hazy. In the second half of the UW game I was just begging them to try to at least screen it to the outside and try to use the size of the WRs to the Os advantage. I think I got one for my trouble.

Yea it is all in hindsight so whatever. I am thinking about it and it might be a practice time issue? No time to install too many extras when your RS Freshman QB is still mastering the base package? Hindsight would have been putting in some more of those type of plays as part of the base O. Or maybe they were and they weren't called, or maybe he was still shy from OU in '08 and TTU in '09? Or maybe there's something else I don't know entirely. We'll never know...

I remeber two draws, one QB draw against Kstate that went for a touchdown, then one against OU that got stuffed.

 

[zoogs]

This is a great representation of the oddness of your "take" on the state of things, Frere zoogies. On the one hand you say you will be surprised if Taylor improves significantly, but then you acknowledge that Cody has improved significantly. If Cody can do it, so can Taylor.

Cody took to his coaching, and Taylor didn't because he didn't like his positions coach (by several accounts here).

I think the extent to which Cody improved from year 1 to year 2 has been surprising. I would be surprised if Taylor, who is if anything more raw than Cody coming in, improved to the same extent. Pleasantly surprised.

Carnes is a redshirt freshman now just like Taylor was. I guess there's no reason not to expect him to be a freshman all-American next year, either.

So since it's been established that middle schoolers don't play against d1 athletes, anyone wanna seriously suggest that the roll out does not work in d1?

Oh no question it works in D1. But you need a guy that can do it. A lot of you like to say "if we haven't seen it, there is no reason to believe a player can do it." By that same logic, there is no reason to believe Taylor can do it, yet people continue to call for it. Completely odd, right, knapplc?

Also against Washington, Taylor (IIRC) was being run down by DEs in that game, so it's unlikely he was going to get out there, then have time to set his feet and make a throw anyway.

 

[knapplc]

This is a great representation of the oddness of your "take" on the state of things, Frere zoogies. On the one hand you say you will be surprised if Taylor improves significantly, but then you acknowledge that Cody has improved significantly. If Cody can do it, so can Taylor.

Cody took to his coaching, and Taylor didn't because he didn't like his positions coach (by several accounts here).

I think the extent to which Cody improved from year 1 to year 2 has been surprising. I would be surprised if Taylor, who is if anything more raw than Cody coming in, improved to the same extent. Pleasantly surprised.

But what of the several accounts here of Cody being more interested in the ladies than in learning the playbook? This is another example of selecting information which supports "your guy" and ignoring what doesn't.

The reality is not that Taylor ignored his coach, it's that there was mutual friction between Taylor and his coach - a coach who is no longer on the staff, mind you. Another example of selecting information which supports your theory and ignoring the whole.

 

[zoogs]

Cody showed his improvement in fundamentals on the field, and he isn't really my guy. He still wouldn't be over a healthy Taylor.

Sure, the friction was mutual (or not, I have no idea). The result is Taylor didn't take to his coaching as well as he could have last year. How that is a positive sign for anything, I don't know. All I am saying is that Taylor has a long, long ways to go in the quarterbacking aspects of the game. Regardless of how he is relative to Cody.

Again, Taylor did what he did as a RFr, so there's no reason not to suspect Carnes can't do the same - right?

 

[knapplc]

Well, that begs the question - how well should Taylor have taken to his coaching? For that matter, how good was the coaching he was given? We have as much reason to believe that Watson half-assed the instruction he gave Taylor. Watson knew as of December, 2009 that the door was open for him to leave. He was supposed to bridge for one year, that was the agreement. Once that was over, he started looking. He didn't find anything, so it's fair to assume - or, it's as likely as anything else - that he didn't give Taylor his full attention.

To be sure, there's no reason to think Carnes can't perform as well or better than Marty performed last year. From what I understand, Carnes did wonderfully as Scout Team QB last year, so it's probably even safe to presume that he's ahead of where Taylor was at this time last year.

What's not safe to presume is that 2011 Brion Carnes is better than 2011 Taylor Martinez. He may be - but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[zoogs]

What's not safe to presume is that 2011 Brion Carnes is better than 2011 Taylor Martinez. He may be - but I'll believe it when I see it.

And that's what I'm saying in terms of passing.

Even if Taylor makes a Cody Green like leap in 2011, he will only be where 2010 Cody Green was in the passing game.

He was supposed to bridge for one year, that was the agreement.

What year are you talking about? 2008?

Watson tried to parlay 2010 success into a HC gig somewhere. I find it extremely unlikely he would half a$$ with his starting QB when he needs to get as much production as he can out of him. Although if true, I guess that excuses Taylor's performance. :dunno

 

[knapplc]

What's not safe to presume is that 2011 Brion Carnes is better than 2011 Taylor Martinez. He may be - but I'll believe it when I see it.

And that's what I'm saying in terms of passing.

Even if Taylor makes a Cody Green like leap in 2011, he will only be where 2010 Cody Green was in the passing game.

Do you mean Taylor will regress over the offseason? He's already better than Cody. 2010 T-Mart was better than 2009 Green or 2010 Green.

 

[zoogs]

Only talking about passing mechanics knapp. I've said a few times I'd take a healthy Taylor over Green.