Carr,Price,Smith > Martinez

[bleedNUred]

I swear if they just just sent Taylor to a hardcore QB camp to work on passing mechanics etc in the off season we'd see a big improvement in his overall passing because you could see his potential in the Okie State game last year.

 

[Hercules]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

If you think Crouch would be as good with this offensive line, you're on harder drugs than the people who would take Martinez over Crouch. That's why it's impossible to say. It's definitely not "crazy," but maybe a little weird, to prefer Martinez. It's not weird at all to think he has the potential to be better.

The simple fact of the matter is neither one of them should be considered a QB anymore. Crouch is probably the most gifted athletic talent that has ever played QB at Nebraska. The unfortunate part, much like Taylor, is that their skill sets don't match that of a successful QB anymore.

Crouch would have been successful at any DB or offensive skill position. Taylor.....maybe.

The problem I have with that argument is that it's the same thing people said when Crouch was QB. And when Frost was QB. And when Frazier was QB. It's been proven wrong over and over again, which you'd think would make it invalid, yet people keep arguing it.

 

[BrooklynsFinest]

Here's a riddle for everyone: what do a rushing touchdown and passing touchdown have in common?

They're both worth 6 points.

Taylor has 11 touchdowns right now. I wouldn't care if he had 10 passing and 1 rushing or 1 passing and 10 rushing because in the end, he's contributed 66 points.

 

[Igetbored216]

Yeah, we have seen this before. I think Martinez and the RBs will have a tough time running the ball against Wisconsin (believe it or not the toss sweeps aren't going to work all the time). And if we struggle with the run game, I just don't see Martinez putting the team on his back and winning the game through the air. He's just not good enough at throwing the ball and his 50% completion rate proves this. Yeah, receivers have dropped some, but at the same time it's the QBs job to get the ball to the receiver where it is easiest for them to catch it. Not at their feet. Not soaring above their head. Not behind them. All three of these he frequently does and then the receivers get blamed for the drop. And again, I will stress, there have been instances where WRs just dropped the ball, but lately, I have been noticing one of the three above scenarios happening. A perfect example was last week when a wide open Kyler Reed had to climb the ladder to pull down a throw that probably would have been picked off if it had not been snagged down.

So, we shall see how this offense does against a real defense. I have a feeling there will be a melt down one week from now as the Huskers struggle to get anything going offensively. But I'm sure Taylor just won't do good because he's a sophomore...or like last year it was because he was a freshman. Maybe next year it will be because he's a junior. I would be thrilled if Taylor goes out there the next two games and proves me wrong, but I'm a huge skeptic of his and I just don't see it happening. Like someone else has stated, I have seen this story before and no one will like the ending.

 

[Hercules]

I feel like Taylor is getting an awful lot of heat for that one bad series where he missed 3 open receivers in a row. Nobody in this thread has mentioned it specifically, but it is really the only thing any of the local journalists mentioned.

First of all, on two of those, it was less of a mechanics/accuracy issue and more of a timing issue. Secondly, I thought after that series, he settled down and played reasonably well the rest of the game.

As far as the fumbles that people have brought up, I only remember one bad fumble from the game yesterday, and those are going to happen sometimes (they happened to Braylon Heard and Ameer Abdullah too). The other fumble Martinez is getting blamed for wasn't his fault - Caputo snapped the ball before Martinez was ready for it.

 

[Igetbored216]

I feel like Taylor is getting an awful lot of heat for that one bad series where he missed 3 open receivers in a row. Nobody in this thread has mentioned it specifically, but it is really the only thing any of the local journalists mentioned.

First of all, on two of those, it was less of a mechanics/accuracy issue and more of a timing issue. Secondly, I thought after that series, he settled down and played reasonably well the rest of the game.

As far as the fumbles that people have brought up, I only remember one bad fumble from the game yesterday, and those are going to happen sometimes (they happened to Braylon Heard and Ameer Abdullah too). The other fumble Martinez is getting blamed for wasn't his fault - Caputo snapped the ball before Martinez was ready for it.

I haven't read anything from local journalists about last night's game. I am simply going by what I have seen so far this season.

 

[Enhance]

I feel like Taylor is getting an awful lot of heat for that one bad series where he missed 3 open receivers in a row. Nobody in this thread has mentioned it specifically, but it is really the only thing any of the local journalists mentioned.

First of all, on two of those, it was less of a mechanics/accuracy issue and more of a timing issue. Secondly, I thought after that series, he settled down and played reasonably well the rest of the game.

As far as the fumbles that people have brought up, I only remember one bad fumble from the game yesterday, and those are going to happen sometimes (they happened to Braylon Heard and Ameer Abdullah too). The other fumble Martinez is getting blamed for wasn't his fault - Caputo snapped the ball before Martinez was ready for it.

Well to be frank one could argue that those missed passes were because of mechanics issues rather than just timing. A lot of people, including television analysts (depending on how much stock you put into them), think his mechanics result in him being very inaccurate on the football field.

I won't pretend to know the answer. I think it's a combination of inexperience in the route-running followed by just a general lack of accuracy from Martinez. I think Martinez played a pretty good game, and he completed more than half of his passes for the first time this season. He also didn't make a big mistake throwing the football which is good.

 

[zoogs]

Count me in as not seeing how those quaterbacks are much better than Martinez.

You didn't watch those games!

 

[Igetbored216]

Oh, and as far as all those QBs being better than Martinez...that's relative to what type of system each team is trying to run.

 

[Hercules]

I feel like Taylor is getting an awful lot of heat for that one bad series where he missed 3 open receivers in a row. Nobody in this thread has mentioned it specifically, but it is really the only thing any of the local journalists mentioned.

First of all, on two of those, it was less of a mechanics/accuracy issue and more of a timing issue. Secondly, I thought after that series, he settled down and played reasonably well the rest of the game.

As far as the fumbles that people have brought up, I only remember one bad fumble from the game yesterday, and those are going to happen sometimes (they happened to Braylon Heard and Ameer Abdullah too). The other fumble Martinez is getting blamed for wasn't his fault - Caputo snapped the ball before Martinez was ready for it.

Well to be frank one could argue that those missed passes were because of mechanics issues rather than just timing. A lot of people, including television analysts (depending on how much stock you put into them), think his mechanics result in him being very inaccurate on the football field.

I won't pretend to know the answer. I think it's a combination of inexperience in the route-running followed by just a general lack of accuracy from Martinez. I think Martinez played a pretty good game, and he completed more than half of his passes for the first time this season. He also didn't make a big mistake throwing the football which is good.

Yeah, but I'm sick of hearing mechanics. It could be his mechanics, but then why don't his mechanics screw up his throws every time? Sometimes he's pretty darn accurate.

I'm thinking of the pass to Khiry Cooper, which was a simple slant pattern and the ball was thrown behind the receiver. I think that's just an inaccurate pass.

The next play was a post pattern to Jamal Turner that was thrown behind. This is where it gets sketchy to me, because it could have just been an inaccurate pass, but it also looked like Martinez expected Turner to settle down in the soft spot of the zone and Turner kept running. Or perhaps Taylor was late with the throw.

The third play was an out pattern to Kenny Bell, where the ball was thrown pretty much where you'd think it'd be thrown on an out pattern, but either Taylor threw it too soon or Bell was late coming out of his break. I really don't think that one was an "accuracy" issue.

I also tend to think that timing is more the issue because Taylor in the post game press conference mentioned that he and the receivers need to work on their timing specifically.

At the end of the day, my point really is just that football is a way more complicated game than, "The QB's mechanics suck and that's why that pass was behind the receiver."

 

[bshirt]

Yeah, we have seen this before. I think Martinez and the RBs will have a tough time running the ball against Wisconsin (believe it or not the toss sweeps aren't going to work all the time). And if we struggle with the run game, I just don't see Martinez putting the team on his back and winning the game through the air. He's just not good enough at throwing the ball and his 50% completion rate proves this. Yeah, receivers have dropped some, but at the same time it's the QBs job to get the ball to the receiver where it is easiest for them to catch it. Not at their feet. Not soaring above their head. Not behind them. All three of these he frequently does and then the receivers get blamed for the drop. And again, I will stress, there have been instances where WRs just dropped the ball, but lately, I have been noticing one of the three above scenarios happening. A perfect example was last week when a wide open Kyler Reed had to climb the ladder to pull down a throw that probably would have been picked off if it had not been snagged down.

So, we shall see how this offense does against a real defense. I have a feeling there will be a melt down one week from now as the Huskers struggle to get anything going offensively. But I'm sure Taylor just won't do good because he's a sophomore...or like last year it was because he was a freshman. Maybe next year it will be because he's a junior. I would be thrilled if Taylor goes out there the next two games and proves me wrong, but I'm a huge skeptic of his and I just don't see it happening. Like someone else has stated, I have seen this story before and no one will like the ending.

Duh....you're right. He would struggle with that.

Well gee, do you think Z. Taylor or Z. Lee would struggle running though opponent defenses for 40+ yds a couple of times a game? Would they struggle running past "anyone"? Hell, do you think they would struggle even keeping up with the triplets on the option? I suppose we could have our rbs run backwards or something.

You can whine, sob & moan until the Missouri river overflows but we're not going back to Callahan's offense. We're a "run first" offense. You know, similar to TO's. Yeah, I know that sucks. Leaving the glorious Callahan era stings badly.

T. Frazier's career completion rate was under 50%. I guess that "proves" he sucked too.

 

[gobiggergoredder]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

If you think Crouch would be as good with this offensive line, you're on harder drugs than the people who would take Martinez over Crouch. That's why it's impossible to say. It's definitely not "crazy," but maybe a little weird, to prefer Martinez. It's not weird at all to think he has the potential to be better.

The simple fact of the matter is neither one of them should be considered a QB anymore. Crouch is probably the most gifted athletic talent that has ever played QB at Nebraska. The unfortunate part, much like Taylor, is that their skill sets don't match that of a successful QB anymore.

Crouch would have been successful at any DB or offensive skill position. Taylor.....maybe.

The problem I have with that argument is that it's the same thing people said when Crouch was QB. And when Frost was QB. And when Frazier was QB. It's been proven wrong over and over again, which you'd think would make it invalid, yet people keep arguing it.

Your logic is flawed. You are assuming that the game doesn't change or evolve. Given your example, I really don't see why anyone isn't arguing that we start to look for a Jerry Tagge clone.

Where has it been proven wrong? Since Crouch won the Heisman, where has a purely running QB been successful. I would actually rather take step back because Miami absolutely destroyed the Huskers. Since Frost won the NC in 1997, where has a pure running (Run First - Sub par passing) QB been successful?

There may be an example, I just don't recall it. That's almost 15 years ago. So again, where has it been proven wrong?

 

[bshirt]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

If you think Crouch would be as good with this offensive line, you're on harder drugs than the people who would take Martinez over Crouch. That's why it's impossible to say. It's definitely not "crazy," but maybe a little weird, to prefer Martinez. It's not weird at all to think he has the potential to be better.

The simple fact of the matter is neither one of them should be considered a QB anymore. Crouch is probably the most gifted athletic talent that has ever played QB at Nebraska. The unfortunate part, much like Taylor, is that their skill sets don't match that of a successful QB anymore.

Crouch would have been successful at any DB or offensive skill position. Taylor.....maybe.

The problem I have with that argument is that it's the same thing people said when Crouch was QB. And when Frost was QB. And when Frazier was QB. It's been proven wrong over and over again, which you'd think would make it invalid, yet people keep arguing it.

Where has it been proven wrong? Since Crouch won the Heisman, where has a purely running QB been successful. I would actually rather take step back because Miami absolutely destroyed the Huskers. Since Frost won the NC in 1997, where has a pure running (Run First - Sub par passing) QB been successful?

There may be an example, I just don't recall it. That's almost 15 years ago. So again, where has it been proven wrong?

Where are you dreaming up "pure running qb"?

Frost, Frazier & Crouch never passed? Well, if you say so.......

Anyway, since Crouch we've had J. Lord (the only offensive threat we had sadly), J. Daily & seven years of fluffball (Callahan/SW). Oh boy, we really had BIG success with that, huh? Glad you enjoyed it.

I gladly welcome the return to our "run-first" offense.

 

[Foppa]

Because he consistently missed WIDE OPEN receivers and and, once again, fumbled the football. The OP nailed it. I said the exact same thing this evening. Taylor is nothing more than a slot WR playing QB....sad thing is, I'd guess most slot WRs have a better mechanics. Taylor is just such a bitter-sweet player. Anytime he touches the ball, he has a chance to take it the distance, but he is a horrid passer and just as bad decision maker.

I have a bad feeling that Taylor is going to get exposed for what he is next week...

How old are you? It's like you never watched - or understood what you were watching - when we were a run-first team in the 80s and 90s.

Martinez' skill set is nearly identical to the QBs we had for two decades, when we won nine games a year every year, and threw in about half a dozen shots at the national championship. Won a couple of those too, if you recall.

He's a college QB whose skills rest in his feet. This is not a new concept in college football.

True, but then we also had QB's who knew how to run the option properly and had the o-line to block for it. That hasn't really panned out so far this year as something you hang your hat on.

 

[bshirt]

Because he consistently missed WIDE OPEN receivers and and, once again, fumbled the football. The OP nailed it. I said the exact same thing this evening. Taylor is nothing more than a slot WR playing QB....sad thing is, I'd guess most slot WRs have a better mechanics. Taylor is just such a bitter-sweet player. Anytime he touches the ball, he has a chance to take it the distance, but he is a horrid passer and just as bad decision maker.

I have a bad feeling that Taylor is going to get exposed for what he is next week...

How old are you? It's like you never watched - or understood what you were watching - when we were a run-first team in the 80s and 90s.

Martinez' skill set is nearly identical to the QBs we had for two decades, when we won nine games a year every year, and threw in about half a dozen shots at the national championship. Won a couple of those too, if you recall.

He's a college QB whose skills rest in his feet. This is not a new concept in college football.

True, but then we also had QB's who knew how to run the option properly and had the o-line to block for it. That hasn't really panned out so far this year as something you hang your hat on.

True enough but expecting a good pancaking Oline after four games probably isn't very realistic after seven years of fluffball (Callahan/SW).