How good can we be with TM under center next year?

[zoogs]

I guess I mean more widespread. In 2010, Niles Paul was a huge part of that. Curenski never got that many targets or starts (and his most memorable 'drop' - catchable, but that ball was tipped just before it reached him).

I agree there's a lot you can put on the WRs and they have work to do. They gotta raise their level of play. But Cure's not here anymore. Kinnie didn't end up being a big part of the passing attack as he was passed by younger receivers. Paul has been gone. I can accept that all these guys had, or developed, consistency/focus problems.

But guys who put together pretty solid years this year like Jamal and Enunwa and Reed and Bell and Burkhead are getting the same kind of flak on the off dropped pass. I don't agree with that, and I'm pointing to Jamal's comments about the receivers not getting a consistent ball from Taylor. Yes, all these guys will get the occasional drop and they should own up to it. But they were all solid pass catchers this year.

Just like Swift, Nunn, Peterson, they all had drops, but that's just part of what happens. What they had was never on the same level as Paul or Kinnie, both of whom disappeared and just lost their game. In short, I don't think the grief that Kinnie caught should apply to the rest of the WR corps. They did some good things this year as a whole, and they are some good players.

 

[lo country]

If we are not going to blame Martinez, fine I can live with this. I do not have a preference either way. He is the QB he gets support. I just think he is not being used properly by Beck. I also think he has less positives than negatives. Some things, with better coaching, can improve (veiled comment to my lack of faith in player development).

Let's blame it on the receivers then. They suck. Wo brought them here? The staff. Could the kids catch when they were recruited? Now they can't? Whose fault is this. Lack of coaching, poor position coach hires, development or recruiting misses?

Time for Bo to take a long look in the mirror.

 

[lo country]

That's really what your coming back with? What's he going to say? I'm not ready. Like I said before my sources tell me Taylor is WAY ahead of Brion. Does Taylor have room to improve? Yes! I'm willing to see what happens next year with his development before I throw him under the bus.

This is the alarming point to me. IIRC, this is year 3 for Carnes and year 4 for Martinez. If the gap is that wide, it is one of two things. Carnes does not have the mental capacity to grasp the system OR we do not have the ability to get players better than when they arrive.

If it is the first, it goes with the comments of those who believe this staff has issues with recruiting ie missing talent/not good judges etc..... Not good.

If it is number 2, it goes right into the theme from some (myself included) that the staff has issues developing talent.

Neither one is good. It goes back to what seems to be this teams (staffs) mentality of playing not to lose instead of playing to win. They lack that killer attitude IMO. Same with the way they play Martinez this year. Safe plays, limit his exposure as it appears they have no faith in the back-ups. Again goes to lack of development or recruiting misses. IIRC, Bo or Beck mentioned during the season that if Martinez went down, Rex would be their guy.

I'm about to rant here, you've all been warned...

I agree with a lot of what you're saying (especially the part about talent development), but the part about safe plays and limiting his exposure bothers me, and it's not just directed at you.

The Martinez haters now complains that we "limit" Martinez too much, and play not to lose, but isn't that what said complainers wanted? Before, Taylor was feast or famine, big play or turnover, and a lot of people justifiably criticized him for it. Now, Taylor has become a game manager, and people want the big play ability back. It just doesn't work like that. We want the big plays minus the mistakes, and unless your quarterback's name is Andrew Luck, that's not just going to happen as a redshirt sophomore.

Now, if there is a better option out there, i'm all for it. There are deficiencies in Martinez's game, and if we have somebody more capable on the roster, he needs to play. I highly doubt this is true, because there is no reason for the staff to keep him on the bench if a better option exists. That being said, teams have won National Championship's with a lot less at quarterback, so if they can do it, so can we. Honestly, I'm more concerned with the defense as a whole that any single unit on the offense, and if I had to pick the offense's weakest position, it's far and away the offensive line, in my opinion. The quarterback is far from the most glaring issue.

Something else that bothers me are the people saying that he is not a "dual threat" quarterback. He may not be busting off 15 yard scrambles, but to say his feet are not a threat is ridiculous. He may not show his speed on every play, but defenses take his speed into account when they gameplan, and they take it into account with their playcalling. Martinez's running ability may open up some lanes for Rex, or loosen up the coverage downfield because he is a threat to run. There's no way to know what the specific effect is unless you're in the opponents defensive gamplanning session, but it definitely has an effect, and that counts for something. Just because he's not juking people in the pocket every play doesn't mean that his running doesn't have a positive effect on the offense.

I know that the quarterback is the easiest position to criticize, but I see much bigger problems, that need addressed more readily than the quarterback. And honestly, this is purely opinion, I think that the inverted veer option out of the gun suits him much better than the option that we're running now. It seems to me that he makes better read from the shotgun, and doesn't have to juke and jive as much as he does out of the I, he can get straight down the field fast, which we all know is his strength.

This is just what I see when I watch the games and read the boards, so take it for what it's worth. I didn't mean to criticize anyone, just to point out some stuff that I believe is frustrating or false. Take it for what it's worth.

No offense taken. I think Martinez was much more a dual threat last year than this or sure. It makes me wonder why the staff went into "protect" mode. I sadly think because we have no one else ready and Rex would move to QB. I also think going away from the zone read has hurt his productivity. An open seem and his speed he is gone. With the option not so much. Again by design or Becks play calling Martinez is not anywhere close to the threat he was last year on the ground.

He seemed to do very well the times we ran the Belly G option in which he makes the read and hits the whole. Without the zone read plays, the D stuffs 8 in the box and pretty much take away his threat. I am sure that him in the game has opened up the game for Rex, much like Roy lat year, but again, IMHO, this is not what this O needs. The staff needs to allow Martinez to run wild like last year and show the same level of ball security and management he did this year. Going up tempo constantly would also not allow the D to get set up high old help him as well.

 

[Hercules]

This has been mentioned a lot, but I don't think it's given enough weight in these discussions. 2011 was the first year in a new offensive system. We're going to see a big leap in year 2, especially considering how young we were in year 1.

It's also important to remember that while the offense wasn't national championship caliber - it was improved from its 2009-2010 outings. Our main problems with making a run at the 2011 Big Ten championship came on the defensive side of the ball. The offense will improve from this year to next - if the defense finds a way to do the same, it could be a fun year. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Malth]

Good lord some of you people are delusional. I gave up on giving you the facts. Clearly you don't watch the games and see there is some real problems with the flow of this offense. Footwork, pocket presence, timing, and throwing motion apparently don't mean sh#t to most of you. Then the guy is supposed to be able to run for days until uh oh? Every defense we play has figured out that that's all he can do and now what happens from here on out? Do you Taylor supporters ever watch any other football teams? There are other programs around the country that have 2nd and 3rd string QB's that blow the doors off of Taylor.....do you not watch any other football than Nebraska? Have you watched option football for so long that you forgot what passing game is supposed to look like?

If you support Taylor just because he is the current QB, I get that, but don't pretend for a second that Brion Carnes doesn't blow his doors off in every single category except the fact that Brion has no experience in real games. These coaches obviously don't want to give Brion a real shot at taking this f'ing' job....you know why? Cuz' Bo has such a hard on for Taylor it's not even funny. He defends the kid every time someone even mentions his name. If Brion was given a chance, you would see what a dual threat QB is really supposed to look like and you will all forget TM even existed.

I just ask one question of you Martinez supporters since you are clearly lost in a world where fundamental quarterback skills don't matter........when someone finally replaces Martinez and shows you what this offense is truly capable of will you have the balls to admit you were blind to see that the team is lacking a true leader, a vocal leader and a QB that can execute the offense?

You're saying a guy that really hasn't taken a single meaningful snap is hands down a superior QB to TMart, and based on your mind reading abilities you say that TMart only plays because Bo walks around with a perpetual boner when he's taking snaps, and you're calling others delusional?

lmao.

 

[donesman]

To answer OP's question I would have to say average. We will always be an average team with TM taking the snaps. One day we will rise again. That won't be for a couple years when someone else with the right skill set has a legit shot at QB.

 

[ccm420]

martinez has hit a wall. i dont think he gets better than he is right now.

 

[It'sNotAFakeID]

maybe they need a Niles Paul drill in practice? :ahhhhhhhh

Nah, the "Jamal drill" is enough

The drops weren't isolated to Kinnie. Plenty of guys got flak for it. Some of it is fair, some of it was for plays where it was a really tough to catch ball. But I think even the ones where it hits the guy in his hands and it drops - yes, that's his fault. But it also shows a lack of trust between QB and WR. And it goes back to an inconsistent ball coming from the QB, in my opinion. There's a little bit of both.

Ridiculous.

There doesn't need to be any cum-bye-ya karma between the qb & wr. The ball hits the wr's hands, he supposed to catch it. Period.

zoogies is right with the "little bit of both" idea. There has to be the thought running in a WR head that: "when I break off to run my 'in route', my QB will hit me in stride." The fact that Taylor can't do that 7-8 times out of 10 adds that thought of "where is the ball going to be" into the wide out's mind. Much in the same light, Taylor wasn't helped out a lot by his receivers dropping a lot of easy catches.

Taylor isn't devoid of all the blame, but he definitely doesn't deserve as much of it as he is getting.

 

[2ndNnine]

No maybe you didn't read right? Tommie Frazier would execute this offense far better than Taylor Martinez! If Tommie in his day took Taylor's place the last two years, Tommie would be DYNO MITE!

Tommie would be great. I think he's out of eligibility though... Also he was one of the best college QBs ever, so the fact that Taylor's production is comparable makes it seem a bit ridiculous for you to want to bench him.

Yeah he was especially allsome when he was riding the pine with blood clots for half of his games

 

[HuskerShark]

martinez has hit a wall. i dont think he gets better than he is right now.

That's what people were saying earlier this season. And then look what happened.

In no way do I see Taylor being done developing. He's super experienced now, and he will be one of the veterans of the team next year. It's just crazy how short people's memories are, and not just when we are talking about TM.

 

[Enhance]

martinez has hit a wall. i dont think he gets better than he is right now.

People said Martinez hit a wall at the beginning of the 2011 season, and he was a much better quarterback come January 2nd than he was early September. What we get his junior season is probably going to be the most Martinez ever offers, as he is now a veteran. Let's see what he can do in the second year of a new system and a full off season to prepare with it.

 

[Enhance]

I'm about to rant here, you've all been warned...

I agree with a lot of what you're saying (especially the part about talent development), but the part about safe plays and limiting his exposure bothers me, and it's not just directed at you.

The Martinez haters now complains that we "limit" Martinez too much, and play not to lose, but isn't that what said complainers wanted? Before, Taylor was feast or famine, big play or turnover, and a lot of people justifiably criticized him for it. Now, Taylor has become a game manager, and people want the big play ability back. It just doesn't work like that. We want the big plays minus the mistakes, and unless your quarterback's name is Andrew Luck, that's not just going to happen as a redshirt sophomore.

Now, if there is a better option out there, i'm all for it. There are deficiencies in Martinez's game, and if we have somebody more capable on the roster, he needs to play. I highly doubt this is true, because there is no reason for the staff to keep him on the bench if a better option exists. That being said, teams have won National Championship's with a lot less at quarterback, so if they can do it, so can we. Honestly, I'm more concerned with the defense as a whole that any single unit on the offense, and if I had to pick the offense's weakest position, it's far and away the offensive line, in my opinion. The quarterback is far from the most glaring issue.

Something else that bothers me are the people saying that he is not a "dual threat" quarterback. He may not be busting off 15 yard scrambles, but to say his feet are not a threat is ridiculous. He may not show his speed on every play, but defenses take his speed into account when they gameplan, and they take it into account with their playcalling. Martinez's running ability may open up some lanes for Rex, or loosen up the coverage downfield because he is a threat to run. There's no way to know what the specific effect is unless you're in the opponents defensive gamplanning session, but it definitely has an effect, and that counts for something. Just because he's not juking people in the pocket every play doesn't mean that his running doesn't have a positive effect on the offense.

I know that the quarterback is the easiest position to criticize, but I see much bigger problems, that need addressed more readily than the quarterback. And honestly, this is purely opinion, I think that the inverted veer option out of the gun suits him much better than the option that we're running now. It seems to me that he makes better read from the shotgun, and doesn't have to juke and jive as much as he does out of the I, he can get straight down the field fast, which we all know is his strength.

This is just what I see when I watch the games and read the boards, so take it for what it's worth. I didn't mean to criticize anyone, just to point out some stuff that I believe is frustrating or false. Take it for what it's worth.

Everything you said here are pretty much my sentiments. I want to touch on your option game point, which is something I talked about in detail in another thread.

I don't think Martinez' skill set is suited for a traditional option attack (i.e. power i-formations). For starters, he doesn't have great footwork when running the football, and it looks like he struggles making the correct cuts and reads when he is running the option this way. Martinez tends to shine when running the option out of the shotgun set, when the defense is more spread out and he's further back from center. The extra space from center with a more spaced defense allows to him to see those running lanes easier, get his speed up and shoot the gap. I'm sure others have noticed this as well, that Martinez' biggest runs almost always occur out of a shotgun set. But when he's under center with 8 defenders in the box and he's asked to move laterally, he struggles.

Furthermore, I COMPLETELY agree with your second to last paragraph - I too see much bigger problems that need to be addressed sooner than quarterback. For example, I think one of the big reasons Martinez struggles to run the football in traditional option sets isn't all his own problem - our line struggles to make key blocks. I won't criticize them too harshly, given the option attack hasn't been that focal in our offense for several years, but they're still not overtly good at it. However, they also tend to do better in shotgun sets as well.

 

[True2tRA]

Good lord some of you people are delusional. I gave up on giving you the facts. Clearly you don't watch the games and see there is some real problems with the flow of this offense. Footwork, pocket presence, timing, and throwing motion apparently don't mean sh#t to most of you. Then the guy is supposed to be able to run for days until uh oh? Every defense we play has figured out that that's all he can do and now what happens from here on out? Do you Taylor supporters ever watch any other football teams? There are other programs around the country that have 2nd and 3rd string QB's that blow the doors off of Taylor.....do you not watch any other football than Nebraska? Have you watched option football for so long that you forgot what passing game is supposed to look like?

If you support Taylor just because he is the current QB, I get that, but don't pretend for a second that Brion Carnes doesn't blow his doors off in every single category except the fact that Brion has no experience in real games. These coaches obviously don't want to give Brion a real shot at taking this f'ing' job....you know why? Cuz' Bo has such a hard on for Taylor it's not even funny. He defends the kid every time someone even mentions his name. If Brion was given a chance, you would see what a dual threat QB is really supposed to look like and you will all forget TM even existed.

I just ask one question of you Martinez supporters since you are clearly lost in a world where fundamental quarterback skills don't matter........when someone finally replaces Martinez and shows you what this offense is truly capable of will you have the balls to admit you were blind to see that the team is lacking a true leader, a vocal leader and a QB that can execute the offense?

You're saying a guy that really hasn't taken a single meaningful snap is hands down a superior QB to TMart, and based on your mind reading abilities you say that TMart only plays because Bo walks around with a perpetual boner when he's taking snaps, and you're calling others delusional?

lmao.

No, I'm saying that as far as fundamental QB skills, footwork, pocket presence, read and react abilities, and ability to extend plays Brion Carnes is better than Taylor. I think I made that pretty clear with all of my comments if you took time to actually read them. I stated nothing but objective facts that I've seen when watching the two QB 's and believe it or not guys Brion has played QB before he came to Nebraska so there is quite a bit of film on the kid other than his 2 or 3 snaps in Nebraska. Not a single response I read really gave any facts on what Taylor executes so well? Most people either just blame the WR's for Taylor's struggles or else they just say " Taylor's better, I have no facts to back it he just is". If Brion gets a better grasp of the offensive playbook I hope he takes the number 1 spot over. Period end of story. I also hope he does it next year or ASAP. I don't want to have to watch Nebraska's offense with Taylor Martinez at QB anymore. It's very limited and ugly in my opinion.

As far as your comments about Bo's hard on for Martinez. I think there is enough evidence out there through the media interviews and post game press conferences to suggest that Bo has a very hands off approach to questions about Taylor and his abilities. He has repeatedly gotten upset when asked to answer questions about Taylors shortcomings. It's like a switch flips and he becomes instantly defensive. I haven't really seen him act like that with any other player. . I think it's strange for sure and it makes me wonder why he is so quick to become irate? It's definitely been a strange soap opera to watch the last couple years.

 

[True2tRA]

As far as Taylor's improvement from last season to this season, I don't see it. I didn't see it in his fundamentals. I don't see it in the numbers.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/481547/taylor-martinez

The numbers from last year to this year are right there. He had a nearly 100 more passing attempts. The so the slight increase in yards and TD's is to be expected but I wouldn't call it phenomenal. 3 more TD's and 1 more interception. His completion percentage dropped to a less than impressive 56%. Average yards per play dropped. As much as everyone wants to blame the offensive line, it's funny that even with 100 more pass attempts he was sacked 5 less times this year. He also had more rushing attempts this year but for less yards. His average per rush dropped significantly as did his TD output. Now I know he was hurt a bit last year which obviously would translate to more attempts in each statistic but with more attempts this season and his vast improvement you TM lovers are talking about......well shouldn't his numbers be up then?

 

[bshirt]

Good lord some of you people are delusional. I gave up on giving you the facts. Clearly you don't watch the games and see there is some real problems with the flow of this offense. Footwork, pocket presence, timing, and throwing motion apparently don't mean sh#t to most of you. Then the guy is supposed to be able to run for days until uh oh? Every defense we play has figured out that that's all he can do and now what happens from here on out? Do you Taylor supporters ever watch any other football teams? There are other programs around the country that have 2nd and 3rd string QB's that blow the doors off of Taylor.....do you not watch any other football than Nebraska? Have you watched option football for so long that you forgot what passing game is supposed to look like?

If you support Taylor just because he is the current QB, I get that, but don't pretend for a second that Brion Carnes doesn't blow his doors off in every single category except the fact that Brion has no experience in real games. These coaches obviously don't want to give Brion a real shot at taking this f'ing' job....you know why? Cuz' Bo has such a hard on for Taylor it's not even funny. He defends the kid every time someone even mentions his name. If Brion was given a chance, you would see what a dual threat QB is really supposed to look like and you will all forget TM even existed.

I just ask one question of you Martinez supporters since you are clearly lost in a world where fundamental quarterback skills don't matter........when someone finally replaces Martinez and shows you what this offense is truly capable of will you have the balls to admit you were blind to see that the team is lacking a true leader, a vocal leader and a QB that can execute the offense?

You're saying a guy that really hasn't taken a single meaningful snap is hands down a superior QB to TMart, and based on your mind reading abilities you say that TMart only plays because Bo walks around with a perpetual boner when he's taking snaps, and you're calling others delusional?

lmao.

No, I'm saying that as far as fundamental QB skills, footwork, pocket presence, read and react abilities, and ability to extend plays Brion Carnes is better than Taylor. I think I made that pretty clear with all of my comments if you took time to actually read them. I stated nothing but objective facts that I've seen when watching the two QB 's and believe it or not guys Brion has played QB before he came to Nebraska so there is quite a bit of film on the kid other than his 2 or 3 snaps in Nebraska. Not a single response I read really gave any facts on what Taylor executes so well? Most people either just blame the WR's for Taylor's struggles or else they just say " Taylor's better, I have no facts to back it he just is". If Brion gets a better grasp of the offensive playbook I hope he takes the number 1 spot over. Period end of story. I also hope he does it next year or ASAP. I don't want to have to watch Nebraska's offense with Taylor Martinez at QB anymore. It's very limited and ugly in my opinion.

As far as your comments about Bo's hard on for Martinez. I think there is enough evidence out there through the media interviews and post game press conferences to suggest that Bo has a very hands off approach to questions about Taylor and his abilities. He has repeatedly gotten upset when asked to answer questions about Taylors shortcomings. It's like a switch flips and he becomes instantly defensive. I haven't really seen him act like that with any other player. . I think it's strange for sure and it makes me wonder why he is so quick to become irate? It's definitely been a strange soap opera to watch the last couple years.

"Objective facts".....lol!