Tommy A. - And various other Husker QBs

OK......

3 more carries per game.....Oh....the....horror.

Signed:

Ignorant Dbag

PS....

Frost 1997 12 games 176 carries (not including bowl game) 14.67 carries per game

Crouch 2001 12 games 203 carries (not including bowl game)16.92 carries per game

16.92

-14.67

2.25 more carries per game.

How does 2.25 carries per game become 3 more carries per game?

Signed....once again:

Ignorant Dbag

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Savage Husker said:
BigRedBuster said:
cm husker said:
Savage Husker said:
cm husker said:
Savage Husker said:
Excuse me, it was 3.3 more carries per game, over a 12 game season.
Click to expand...
It was a 13 game season. Versus 12 until 1996.Nothing to forgive. Just a discussion.
Click to expand...
You're right, the season stats didn't include the bowl games, up until last decade, give or take a a couple years. Figure in the bowl game numbers and Frost '97 is 14.75 range to Crouch 18.6 for the entire season.
Edit: Crouch was 17.9
Click to expand...
So, crouch got about one more carry per game in his Heisman season than frost did in his 1997 championship season?
Click to expand...
Oh....the.....horror......
Click to expand...
How does over 3 carries more per game equate to "about one more carry?" You guys are ignorant dbags, my goodness.
Click to expand...
Look, not trying to be antagonistic here. Your numbers just seem a bit off. This site is a good one, and as I read it, it includes bowl games in the totals: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/nebraska/1997.html
EDIT: nevermind, it's just regular season and ccg games. But I don't think that effects the overall point below.

If you look at the 2001 season, NU QBs carried it 226 times versus at least 218 for 1997 (I didn't include any Newcombe carries because it's not clear how many of his were from QB or another position).

8 carries or less, over a 13 game season, is statistically insignificant in my opinion.

On a "run per snap" basis, Frost may have actually had more carries than Crouch. I've always thought that if Frost had played on UF during Tebows years, he would have been at least as good. That guy was a better runner and thrower than Tebow.

And to bring it back to TA, TA is in a situation where his abilities aren't really suited for what Riley and Langs have historically tried to do. I think in the right system, TA is easily an all conference level QB. And to be fair, perhaps with a different QB, Rileh and Langs offense would be much better. Will be interesting to see what NU does this year.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BigRedBuster said:
OK......

3 more carries per game.....Oh....the....horror.

Signed:

Ignorant Dbag

PS....

Frost 1997 12 games 176 carries (not including bowl game) 14.67 carries per game

Crouch 2001 12 games 203 carries (not including bowl game)16.92 carries per game

16.92

-14.67

2.25 more carries per game.

How does 2.25 carries per game become 3 more carries per game?

Signed....once again:

Ignorant Dbag
Click to expand...
I have multiple times conceded that the '97 season isn't much different than any year Solich was the head coach. CM made a point that reminded me how bowl games are not accounted for in season stats during that time frame. Frost is 193/13 to get 14.8, to Crouch's 225/13 for 17.3. No, a 1/4 carry per game isn't a big deal, but It isn't 1, and your follow up comment is what a dbag would do, and if you can't realize that, than you are indeed ignorant.
My OP is how Crouch became more of the offense than ANY OTHER YEAR PRIOR! Which is true!! If you can't face that, then you're being ignorant just to save face for your claim. You're taking one year (Yes the trend did start during Frost's senior year), I'm accounting for TOs final 6 seasons to compare to Solich's tenure, which was after numnuts CM makes his OWN "perception" claim and tells me he can back it up with stats, then he'll take a stat and provide a half truth to it i.e. Crouch stat his first 2 seasons. He's done that twice in this thread now; engage with a member, tell them they're wrong and he can prove it, but doesn't do a darn thing to support his claims and acts like an a--hat. Somehow, you sucked yourself into it too.

 
BigRedBuster said:
OK......

3 more carries per game.....Oh....the....horror.

Signed:

Ignorant Dbag

PS....

Frost 1997 12 games 176 carries (not including bowl game) 14.67 carries per game

Crouch 2001 12 games 203 carries (not including bowl game)16.92 carries per game

16.92

-14.67

2.25 more carries per game.

How does 2.25 carries per game become 3 more carries per game?

Signed....once again:

Ignorant Dbag
Click to expand...
cm husker said:
Savage Husker said:
BigRedBuster said:
cm husker said:
Savage Husker said:
cm husker said:
Savage Husker said:
Excuse me, it was 3.3 more carries per game, over a 12 game season.
Click to expand...
It was a 13 game season. Versus 12 until 1996.Nothing to forgive. Just a discussion.
Click to expand...
You're right, the season stats didn't include the bowl games, up until last decade, give or take a a couple years. Figure in the bowl game numbers and Frost '97 is 14.75 range to Crouch 18.6 for the entire season.
Edit: Crouch was 17.9
Click to expand...
So, crouch got about one more carry per game in his Heisman season than frost did in his 1997 championship season?
Click to expand...
Oh....the.....horror......
Click to expand...
How does over 3 carries more per game equate to "about one more carry?" You guys are ignorant dbags, my goodness.
Click to expand...
Look, not trying to be antagonistic here. Your numbers just seem a bit off. This site is a good one, and as I read it, it includes bowl games in the totals: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/nebraska/1997.html
EDIT: nevermind, it's just regular season and ccg games. But I don't think that effects the overall point below.

If you look at the 2001 season, NU QBs carried it 226 times versus at least 218 for 1997 (I didn't include any Newcombe carries because it's not clear how many of his were from QB or another position).

8 carries or less, over a 13 game season, is statistically insignificant in my opinion.

On a "run per snap" basis, Frost may have actually had more carries than Crouch. I've always thought that if Frost had played on UF during Tebows years, he would have been at least as good. That guy was a better runner and thrower than Tebow.

And to bring it back to TA, TA is in a situation where his abilities aren't really suited for what Riley and Langs have historically tried to do. I think in the right system, TA is easily an all conference level QB. And to be fair, perhaps with a different QB, Rileh and Langs offense would be much better. Will be interesting to see what NU does this year.
Click to expand...
This is wrong...Crouch has a higher run % no matter how many "run per snap" attempts.

Frost rushed 302 times in 1446 rush att. in 2 years that he was the starter. That is 21% of the rushing attempts

Crouch rushed 648 times in 2577 rush att. in the 4 years he was a starter. That is 26% of the rushing attempts.

You can even break it down into 2 year increments on Crouch and he still had a higher % of the rushing attempts then Frost.

 
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I think that if NU had an ahman green or Lawrence Phillips at IB, play calling would have been different too.

In any event, as a % of running plays, QB carries did go up during the Crouch years, at least among the starters, but a few % point increase, when it was less than 33%, is not "QB left, QB right, QB up the middle" which is what was claimed.

It's a false perception that Crouch was the man on a majority of run plays, plain and simple. It's a false narrative based more on perception than reality.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stumpy1 said:
BigRedBuster said:
OK......

3 more carries per game.....Oh....the....horror.

Signed:

Ignorant Dbag

PS....

Frost 1997 12 games 176 carries (not including bowl game) 14.67 carries per game

Crouch 2001 12 games 203 carries (not including bowl game)16.92 carries per game

16.92

-14.67

2.25 more carries per game.

How does 2.25 carries per game become 3 more carries per game?

Signed....once again:

Ignorant Dbag
Click to expand...
cm husker said:
Savage Husker said:
BigRedBuster said:
cm husker said:
Savage Husker said:
cm husker said:
Savage Husker said:
Excuse me, it was 3.3 more carries per game, over a 12 game season.
Click to expand...
It was a 13 game season. Versus 12 until 1996.Nothing to forgive. Just a discussion.
Click to expand...
You're right, the season stats didn't include the bowl games, up until last decade, give or take a a couple years. Figure in the bowl game numbers and Frost '97 is 14.75 range to Crouch 18.6 for the entire season.
Edit: Crouch was 17.9
Click to expand...
So, crouch got about one more carry per game in his Heisman season than frost did in his 1997 championship season?
Click to expand...
Oh....the.....horror......
Click to expand...
How does over 3 carries more per game equate to "about one more carry?" You guys are ignorant dbags, my goodness.
Click to expand...
Look, not trying to be antagonistic here. Your numbers just seem a bit off. This site is a good one, and as I read it, it includes bowl games in the totals: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/nebraska/1997.html
EDIT: nevermind, it's just regular season and ccg games. But I don't think that effects the overall point below.

If you look at the 2001 season, NU QBs carried it 226 times versus at least 218 for 1997 (I didn't include any Newcombe carries because it's not clear how many of his were from QB or another position).

8 carries or less, over a 13 game season, is statistically insignificant in my opinion.

On a "run per snap" basis, Frost may have actually had more carries than Crouch. I've always thought that if Frost had played on UF during Tebows years, he would have been at least as good. That guy was a better runner and thrower than Tebow.

And to bring it back to TA, TA is in a situation where his abilities aren't really suited for what Riley and Langs have historically tried to do. I think in the right system, TA is easily an all conference level QB. And to be fair, perhaps with a different QB, Rileh and Langs offense would be much better. Will be interesting to see what NU does this year.
Click to expand...
This is wrong...Crouch has a higher run % no matter how many "run per snap" attempts.
Frost rushed 302 times in 1446 rush att. in 2 years that he was the starter. That is 21% of the rushing attempts

Crouch rushed 648 times in 2577 rush att. in the 4 years he was a starter. That is 26% of the rushing attempts.

You can even break it down into 2 year increments on Crouch and he still had a higher % of the rushing attempts then Frost.
Click to expand...
No, I meant in terms of snaps played by each player. Frost may have played fewer snaps that year, evidenced by his back up(s) having more carries and attempts than Crouch's.

 
Savage Husker said:
BigRedBuster said:
OK......

3 more carries per game.....Oh....the....horror.

Signed:

Ignorant Dbag

PS....

Frost 1997 12 games 176 carries (not including bowl game) 14.67 carries per game

Crouch 2001 12 games 203 carries (not including bowl game)16.92 carries per game

16.92

-14.67

2.25 more carries per game.

How does 2.25 carries per game become 3 more carries per game?

Signed....once again:

Ignorant Dbag
Click to expand...
I have multiple times conceded that the '97 season isn't much different than any year Solich was the head coach. CM made a point that reminded me how bowl games are not accounted for in season stats during that time frame. Frost is 193/13 to get 14.8, to Crouch's 225/13 for 17.3. No, a 1/4 carry per game isn't a big deal, but It isn't 1, and your follow up comment is what a dbag would do, and if you can't realize that, than you are indeed ignorant.
My OP is how Crouch became more of the offense than ANY OTHER YEAR PRIOR! Which is true!! If you can't face that, then you're being ignorant just to save face for your claim. You're taking one year (Yes the trend did start during Frost's senior year), I'm accounting for TOs final 6 seasons to compare to Solich's tenure, which was after numnuts CM makes his OWN "perception" claim and tells me he can back it up with stats, then he'll take a stat and provide a half truth to it i.e. Crouch stat his first 2 seasons. He's done that twice in this thread now; engage with a member, tell them they're wrong and he can prove it, but doesn't do a darn thing to support his claims and acts like an a--hat. Somehow, you sucked yourself into it too.
Click to expand...
In post number 42 you stated the following that implies this is a phenomena that happened under Crouch and not prior:

To throw my 2¢ in about the Crouch era...I lived in WA and only got to see a handful of televised games, plus not many games were televised back then, but every game felt like "Crouch to the left!" or "Crouch to the right!" or "Crouch up the middle!" The team became so one-dimensional it was frustrating to watch. He was dynamic, but I think it also took away from the team as a whole.
Click to expand...
You then admitted later that you did make it an argument between TO and Solich. Well, TO was coaching in 1997 and Crouch wasn't the QB...correct?

Was there a big difference between TF and Crouch??? Sure....I don't think anyone has argued differently. But....to point out that Frost basically ran it as much as Crouch doesn't fit your narrative...does it?

Now....can you even have a conversation without insulting and calling people names? Typically that's the rules on the board. If not....well....that tells way more about your ability to communicate effectively or maybe it has to do with your personal insecurities...
default_dunno.gif
. Does it make you feel smarter or big mean and tough to call people names??? I knew some middle schoolers back in the day that acted like that.

 
1995 Redux said:
So, Tommy Armstrong....am I right?
Click to expand...
I think the entire offense will be more efficient than last year since being in the system an entire year now. That will make TA appear to be better (and he will be because he knows the system better). He will still make some mistakes but, it's possible they won't be as costly as they were last year.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Yeah, all I can go by are my own memories.

Bobby Newcombe was going to be the second coming of Johnny Rodgers, and although he was slotted to be the classic Nebraska wingback, the fact that he'd played some QB in high school got everybody excited about Bobby handling the ball on every offensive play. By this point there was no premium on the QB being able to pass.

I know Newcombe got injured and perhaps was never the same, but I could have sworn he was a perfectly healthy quarterback when it became apparent that he didn't run the Nebraska option game with the same instincts as his predecessors. Or his successor. And if Bobby was healthy enough to run deep routes and return punts the rest of his Husker career (he was and he did) then it wasn't injury that kept him from QB greatness. The healthy Bobby Newcombe averaged less than 3 yards a carry.

As unprovable theories go, it's really shaky to suggest Nebraska would have been more successful with Bobby Newcombe than our only Heisman Trophy quarterback, who actually did get us a play or two away from a National Championship.
Click to expand...
Newcombe came to NU as a QB. He was too good to keep off the field as a true freshman, that is why he returned punts and caught a few passes throughout the season. Crouch if my recolection is correct had minor knee surgery his freshman year which was a reason why he RS.

Newcombe was a pretty good QB before he got hurt his soph year, 1998. He messed his knee up pretty good. After that he never was the same at QB. IMO it was more mental than physical. He just became tentative when playing QB. Unlike Crouch who was extreamly aggresive. BN was not a big guy, he was listed at 6' 190 and was probably closer to 5'10" and about 175. Crouch wasn't a big guy either, but was somewhat thicker and could take the pounding better.

When your best runner is your QB, he is going to run the ball more. The first option on a sprint option is QB run. When you have a QB like Crouch, that was as quick and instinctive at hitting that crease he is going to carry the ball. I remember watching him come down the line and boom he was gone on a 40 yard run. Watch the games again he pitched it plenty.

 
BigRedBuster said:
Savage Husker said:
BigRedBuster said:
OK......

3 more carries per game.....Oh....the....horror.

Signed:

Ignorant Dbag

PS....

Frost 1997 12 games 176 carries (not including bowl game) 14.67 carries per game

Crouch 2001 12 games 203 carries (not including bowl game)16.92 carries per game

16.92

-14.67

2.25 more carries per game.

How does 2.25 carries per game become 3 more carries per game?

Signed....once again:

Ignorant Dbag
Click to expand...
I have multiple times conceded that the '97 season isn't much different than any year Solich was the head coach. CM made a point that reminded me how bowl games are not accounted for in season stats during that time frame. Frost is 193/13 to get 14.8, to Crouch's 225/13 for 17.3. No, a 1/4 carry per game isn't a big deal, but It isn't 1, and your follow up comment is what a dbag would do, and if you can't realize that, than you are indeed ignorant.
My OP is how Crouch became more of the offense than ANY OTHER YEAR PRIOR! Which is true!! If you can't face that, then you're being ignorant just to save face for your claim. You're taking one year (Yes the trend did start during Frost's senior year), I'm accounting for TOs final 6 seasons to compare to Solich's tenure, which was after numnuts CM makes his OWN "perception" claim and tells me he can back it up with stats, then he'll take a stat and provide a half truth to it i.e. Crouch stat his first 2 seasons. He's done that twice in this thread now; engage with a member, tell them they're wrong and he can prove it, but doesn't do a darn thing to support his claims and acts like an a--hat. Somehow, you sucked yourself into it too.
Click to expand...
In post number 42 you stated the following that implies this is a phenomena that happened under Crouch and not prior:

To throw my 2¢ in about the Crouch era...I lived in WA and only got to see a handful of televised games, plus not many games were televised back then, but every game felt like "Crouch to the left!" or "Crouch to the right!" or "Crouch up the middle!" The team became so one-dimensional it was frustrating to watch. He was dynamic, but I think it also took away from the team as a whole.
Click to expand...
You then admitted later that you did make it an argument between TO and Solich. Well, TO was coaching in 1997 and Crouch wasn't the QB...correct?

Was there a big difference between TF and Crouch??? Sure....I don't think anyone has argued differently. But....to point out that Frost basically ran it as much as Crouch doesn't fit your narrative...does it?

Now....can you even have a conversation without insulting and calling people names? Typically that's the rules on the board. If not....well....that tells way more about your ability to communicate effectively or maybe it has to do with your personal insecurities...
default_dunno.gif
. Does it make you feel smarter or big mean and tough to call people names??? I knew some middle schoolers back in the day that acted like that.
Click to expand...
I admitted that Frost didn't fit my narrative, and for the 3rd-4th time, I'm addressing that again. You keep beating it up that I'm ignoring that fact, when I'm not. I called you dbag because of your condescending post. Is that mature of yourself to respond in that tone? I believe you were taking a swipe at me and that doesn't build a conversation to want to communicate with you, which is why I couldn't careless about your last paragraph because you act so high and mighty about yourself right now to try teaching me communication skills.
 
NUinID said:
Guy Chamberlin said:
Yeah, all I can go by are my own memories.

Bobby Newcombe was going to be the second coming of Johnny Rodgers, and although he was slotted to be the classic Nebraska wingback, the fact that he'd played some QB in high school got everybody excited about Bobby handling the ball on every offensive play. By this point there was no premium on the QB being able to pass.

I know Newcombe got injured and perhaps was never the same, but I could have sworn he was a perfectly healthy quarterback when it became apparent that he didn't run the Nebraska option game with the same instincts as his predecessors. Or his successor. And if Bobby was healthy enough to run deep routes and return punts the rest of his Husker career (he was and he did) then it wasn't injury that kept him from QB greatness. The healthy Bobby Newcombe averaged less than 3 yards a carry.

As unprovable theories go, it's really shaky to suggest Nebraska would have been more successful with Bobby Newcombe than our only Heisman Trophy quarterback, who actually did get us a play or two away from a National Championship.
Click to expand...
Newcombe came to NU as a QB. He was too good to keep off the field as a true freshman, that is why he returned punts and caught a few passes throughout the season. Crouch if my recolection is correct had minor knee surgery his freshman year which was a reason why he RS.
Newcombe was a pretty good QB before he got hurt his soph year, 1998. He messed his knee up pretty good. After that he never was the same at QB. IMO it was more mental than physical. He just became tentative when playing QB. Unlike Crouch who was extreamly aggresive. BN was not a big guy, he was listed at 6' 190 and was probably closer to 5'10" and about 175. Crouch wasn't a big guy either, but was somewhat thicker and could take the pounding better.

When your best runner is your QB, he is going to run the ball more. The first option on a sprint option is QB run. When you have a QB like Crouch, that was as quick and instinctive at hitting that crease he is going to carry the ball. I remember watching him come down the line and boom he was gone on a 40 yard run. Watch the games again he pitched it plenty.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty good summary of what I remember too.

I played against Crouch in HS. I've never seen a person accelerate through a cut like he could. I agree that when push comes to shove and you need that 3 yards, you do everything you can to keep it in his hands.

 
Crouch, Frost and Jamaal Lord were the kind of passers who would make you yearn for Tommy Armstrong.

I think that's the reason they ran more often.

 
Quarterbacks can often manage a completion percentage increase of 3-4 percent between seasons, particularly junior to senior seasons. I think that is a reasonable goal for TA. If he can get up to 58-59 percent and trim down the interceptions, this could be a particularly good season for him.

 
I sometimes wonder if Tommy was in favor of slinging the ball around 30+ times a game last year.

I just want him to quit the gunslinger mentality and play smart. If he can do that, we will have a great year.

 
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