Tommy A. - And various other Husker QBs

[BigRedBuster]

Why when you say "championship years" you don't include 1997? The heat TO coached that team and the QBcarries had already increased.

But, when people complain about this they only complain about Solich.

 

[Mavric]

The defense may have a strong or weak side but that doesn't have to dictate the direction of the option play. Against an offensive set that is balanced, they defense can be balanced as well such that there isn't an advantage to running one side or the other - other than you would have a lot more room to run to the wide side of the field. It's just another instance of Frank showing he didn't really understand play-calling strategy. Just like when he was asked about why he was running the fullback so much. His response was that you had to run the fullback to keep the defense from cheating out against the option. But for years we did the exact opposite. We'd run the option all game until the defense forgot about the fullback and in the fourth quarter the fullback could run wild, such as in the 1995 Orange Bowl.

Crouch wouldn't have to be ignoring his reads. That would be a great thing for you to speculate about to avoid blaming Frank for anything. But he could have just been that much better that we had a better chance of making yards with him keeping the ball instead of pitching it.

I probably don't remember the player correctly. Doesn't appear that it was Lance Brown. But the formation and situation are accurate. We ran that play a lot and it rarely went Newcombe's way. Crouch kept it a lot but Newcombe only had about three carries a game as a junior and less than one as a senior. Running Crouch and Newcome on that option play would have been a heck of a combination but we almost never did that.

Just focusing on the bolded for a second, with 11 players, there's almost always a strong or weak side to a D, unless they are perfectly stacked and that would be unusual. Almost always there's strong/weak defensive alignment... e.g. a 2i and a 3 Tech, which leads to an unbalanced back 7.

I'm talking about what was actually happening. Your only answer is to speak in generalities about what "almost always" happens. One of us is talking about substantiated and accurate facts while the other is making stuff up but it's the opposite of what you'd like to think.

And you keep trying to prove you point by the good things people said about Frank or the bad things they said about Osborne. Neither of those is anything resembling substantiated and accurate.

 

[cm husker]

Forgive me, Mavric, but based on your faulty memory about Lance Brown, I don't trust your memory of what "actually happened."

Feel free to post some examples from YouTube. A lot of games are there.

I don't really understand the point of your last paragraph. I quoted Osborne himself. People wrongly criticized him. And they similarly criticized Solich. That's the point here.

 

[cm husker]

Excuse me, it was 3.3 more carries per game, over a 12 game season.

It was a 13 game season. Versus 12 until 1996.
Nothing to forgive. Just a discussion.

 

[Mavric]

Forgive me, Mavric, but based on your faulty memory about Lance Brown, I don't trust your memory of what "actually happened."

Feel free to post some examples from YouTube. A lot of games are there.

I don't really understand the point of your last paragraph. I quoted Osborne himself. People wrongly criticized him. And they similarly criticized Solich. That's the point here.

I have actually watched the games were're talking about. You haven't - or at least you haven't even bothered to post any actually scenarios from those games.. Feel free to post your own videos refuting me. There are a lot of games on YouTube.

You don't have to believe me. But that doesn't make me wrong.

 

[Savage Husker]

Excuse me, it was 3.3 more carries per game, over a 12 game season.

It was a 13 game season. Versus 12 until 1996. Nothing to forgive. Just a discussion.

You're right, the season stats didn't include the bowl games, up until last decade, give or take a a couple years. Figure in the bowl game numbers and Frost '97 is 14.75 range to Crouch 18.6 for the entire season.
Edit: Crouch was 17.9

 

[Mavric]

Forgive me, Mavric, but based on your faulty memory about Lance Brown, I don't trust your memory of what "actually happened."

Feel free to post some examples from YouTube. A lot of games are there.

I don't really understand the point of your last paragraph. I quoted Osborne himself. People wrongly criticized him. And they similarly criticized Solich. That's the point here.

Plus, since Newcombe only played six games in 1998 and Crouch therw over 100 passes that year, it would seem that Crouch actually was playing a decent amount of QB that year. In fact, it would be entirely possible that what I described "actually happened".
So, again, you like to find one little thing and make it seem like it means significantly more than it does.

 

[Savage Husker]

Why when you say "championship years" you don't include 1997? The heat TO coached that team and the QBcarries had already increased.

But, when people complain about this they only complain about Solich.

What are you talking about? Not once did I make this about Solich vs TO, nor did I ever exclude '97 from the equation. I have stated from the very beginning that Frost '97 had an increase in the run game. And my entire point was that over the years, especially the Crouch '01 year, the QB run game became more the focal point of the offense, which made it feel like, to paraphrase, "it had become Crouch; left, right, and middle." Seriously, what doesn't make sense? Is there really no difference from 10-11 carries per game to 17-18? Because an increase like that to the pass game would freak people out if Tommy Armstrong started hucking the ball around 35+ times per game as opposed to the 25 attempts people would like to see.
Edit: I did make this about TO vs Solich, but not in some, "this isn't how it should be..." mindset because as I state for the third time, I don't know the cause and effect it had on the overall picture to have a negative opinion. More of, "this is how I remember the season."

 

[cm husker]

Forgive me, Mavric, but based on your faulty memory about Lance Brown, I don't trust your memory of what "actually happened."

Feel free to post some examples from YouTube. A lot of games are there.

I don't really understand the point of your last paragraph. I quoted Osborne himself. People wrongly criticized him. And they similarly criticized Solich. That's the point here.

Plus, since Newcombe only played six games in 1998 and Crouch therw over 100 passes that year, it would seem that Crouch actually was playing a decent amount of QB that year. In fact, it would be entirely possible that what I described "actually happened".
So, again, you like to find one little thing and make it seem like it means significantly more than it does.

Newcombe was hurt that year. He didn't play wingback. He switched positions later in '99 as I recall.

It's not one little thing. Your entire original premise was disproved.

If you want to argue that he should have been used more in the option game in 2000, that's fine.

To me, it's become pretty clear that you were want a solich fan and no amount of facts or other examples or clips would dissuade you from that opinion. That's fine. I won't waste either of our times.

 

[cm husker]

Excuse me, it was 3.3 more carries per game, over a 12 game season.

It was a 13 game season. Versus 12 until 1996. Nothing to forgive. Just a discussion.

You're right, the season stats didn't include the bowl games, up until last decade, give or take a a couple years. Figure in the bowl game numbers and Frost '97 is 14.75 range to Crouch 18.6 for the entire season.
Edit: Crouch was 17.9

So, crouch got about one more carry per game in his Heisman season than frost did in his 1997 championship season?

 

[cm husker]

My whole issue is that most of the criticisms that were thrown at Solich were the same as the ones thrown at TO up until 1994:

He runs too much short side option

He's too one dimensional

His system can't beat teams with speed

The game passed him by.

The last one is particularly interesting to me because most of the most dynamic offenses in CFB today have borrowed heavily from what TO and Frank were doing in the 90s and early 00s, like running option out of shotgun formation.

 

[Redux]

So Tommy Armstrong's biggest problem is Frank Solich got unfairly criticized and Newcombe was betterish/not betterish than Crouch?

Man, I have a lot to learn about football.

 

[Hunter94]

My whole issue is that most of the criticisms that were thrown at Solich were the same as the ones thrown at TO up until 1994:

He runs too much short side option

He's too one dimensional

His system can't beat teams with speed

The game passed him by.

The last one is particularly interesting to me because most of the most dynamic offenses in CFB today have borrowed heavily from what TO and Frank were doing in the 90s and early 00s, like running option out of shotgun formation.

nice job hijacking the thread about tommie!

 

[BigRedBuster]

Excuse me, it was 3.3 more carries per game, over a 12 game season.

It was a 13 game season. Versus 12 until 1996.Nothing to forgive. Just a discussion.

You're right, the season stats didn't include the bowl games, up until last decade, give or take a a couple years. Figure in the bowl game numbers and Frost '97 is 14.75 range to Crouch 18.6 for the entire season.
Edit: Crouch was 17.9

So, crouch got about one more carry per game in his Heisman season than frost did in his 1997 championship season?

Oh....the.....horror......

 

[Savage Husker]

Excuse me, it was 3.3 more carries per game, over a 12 game season.

It was a 13 game season. Versus 12 until 1996.Nothing to forgive. Just a discussion.

You're right, the season stats didn't include the bowl games, up until last decade, give or take a a couple years. Figure in the bowl game numbers and Frost '97 is 14.75 range to Crouch 18.6 for the entire season.
Edit: Crouch was 17.9

So, crouch got about one more carry per game in his Heisman season than frost did in his 1997 championship season?

Oh....the.....horror......

How does over 3 carries more per game equate to "about one more carry?" You guys are ignorant dbags, my goodness.