2017 NBA Playoffs

[Nebfanatic]

Most players play with other HOFers when they win ships. That's the way it goes. Have your opinion all you want but you like many others are just trying to undercut Lebrons greatness for no reason. He is the second best player to ever do it, and probably the most complete player of all time. Keep thinking Kobe is better if you want to, just know your opinion through most prisms now is wrong.

Let me put it this way. If your could have a fantasy draft where all of the best players of all time were available at the start of their careers and teams were picking now, Lebron would go top 2 and Kobe may not be top 5.

 

[BIG ERN]

Most players play with other HOFers when they win ships. That's the way it goes. Have your opinion all you want but you like many others are just trying to undercut Lebrons greatness for no reason. He is the second best player to ever do it, and probably the most complete player of all time. Keep thinking Kobe is better if you want to, just know your opinion through most prisms now is wrong.

I think LeBron is great and could eventually pass Kobe. It just boggles my mind that we act like he is doing things the game has never seen before. Especially when we factor in how garbage the East is.

 

[QMany]

Most players play with other HOFers when they win ships. That's the way it goes. Have your opinion all you want but you like many others are just trying to undercut Lebrons greatness for no reason. He is the second best player to ever do it, and probably the most complete player of all time. Keep thinking Kobe is better if you want to, just know your opinion through most prisms now is wrong.

I can't argue that LeBron is one of the best players ever, but I can't consider him "the most complete player of all time." IMHO, his defense, other than exciting help-side and chase down blocks, is sub-standard when compared to the other greats.

 

[Nebfanatic]

Most players play with other HOFers when they win ships. That's the way it goes. Have your opinion all you want but you like many others are just trying to undercut Lebrons greatness for no reason. He is the second best player to ever do it, and probably the most complete player of all time. Keep thinking Kobe is better if you want to, just know your opinion through most prisms now is wrong.

I think LeBron is great and could eventually pass Kobe. It just boggles my mind that we act like he is doing things the game has never seen before. Especially when we factor in how garbage the East is.

the thing is he is though. He is Karl Malone and John Stockton put together. He just put up 26-8-8 in his 14th season. That is something we have never seen before. Only 3 other players in history have put up that stat line (Big O, Harden and Westbrook) and none of those guys did it in their 14th season coming off of their 6th straight final. If the east sucks so bad why do none of the big free agents come to the east and dominate? I understand we get Lebron fatigue but it pains me to see people just shrug his greatness away like it's nothing.

 

[Mavric]

If the east sucks so bad

none of the big free agents come to the east

And there you have it - answered your own question.

 

[Nebfanatic]

If the east sucks so bad

none of the big free agents come to the east

And there you have it - answered your own question.

Or they don't want to play Lebron in the playoffs

But since I must sound like a Lebron Stan at this point I will leave it be. We will see how history looks back on Kobe and LeBron when it's all said and done.

 

[Mavric]

If the east sucks so bad

none of the big free agents come to the east

And there you have it - answered your own question.

Or they don't want to play Lebron in the playoffs

Could be. But that's not a rebuttal to what BIG ERN said.

 

[Nebfanatic]

If the east sucks so bad

none of the big free agents come to the east

And there you have it - answered your own question.

Or they don't want to play Lebron in the playoffs

Could be. But that's not a rebuttal to what BIG ERN said.

and what has Big ERN been coming with except opinion? I asked him to make a statistical case for Kobe over Lebron and he couldn't so he resorted to other arguments so I don't really see how my rebuttals matter at that point.

 

[Mavric]

So you're allowed to make contradicting rebuttals then say they don't matter but he has to bring a statistical case?

Interesting dichotomy.

 

[BIG ERN]

If the east sucks so bad

none of the big free agents come to the east

And there you have it - answered your own question.

Or they don't want to play Lebron in the playoffs

Could be. But that's not a rebuttal to what BIG ERN said.

and what has Big ERN been coming with except opinion? I asked him to make a statistical case for Kobe over Lebron and he couldn't so he resorted to other arguments so I don't really see how my rebuttals matter at that point.

I already stated several stats that show that Kobe wasn't carried by Shaq and when he came into the league he got little PT his first two years which brings down his career averages. LeBron is 32 right now, when Kobe was 33 he still averaged 30 ppg in the Playoffs that year. He then declined after the achilles injury.

LeBron career right now is 27, 7, 7 - Larry Bird ended with 24, 10, 6 so yes, I have seen these numbers done before just maybe not as late in career. Bird arguably has the best season in NBA history: 28/9/7 53% FG 40% 3p and 91% FT. Avg 10 reb/game for his career and LeBron has never avg 9 reb in one season yet.

This years stats are also so inflated it isn't funny. Westbrook averaged 31/10/10 and Harden 29/11/8. Possessions and scoring for all teams is up along with not being able to breathe on anyone.

Furthermore, people never give enough credit to Kobe winning back-to-back titles with an average team. Not one player averaged over 19 ppg in the playoffs for the Lakers in 09' or 10' besides Kobe. In 10' they beat Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, K Perkins, Rasheed Wallace, Nate Robinson, and Tony Allen

 

[Nebfanatic]

So you're allowed to make contradicting rebuttals then say they don't matter but he has to bring a statistical case?

Interesting dichotomy.

Well you messed up the time line there. I asked for the statistical case, didn't get it. I presented a statistical case, which was pushed to the side because apparently stats don't matter, then I made the contradictory rebuttal which was the point(the start free agents don't want to play Lebron) so yea Id say it doesn't matter since his rebuttals apparently don't have to be in response to my posts either

 

[BIG ERN]

AND for being a Top 5 player all-time LeBron had the worst Final's performance.

In 2007 they were swept (0-4) which is fine cause the Cavs sucked, but you have to play better than this.

22 ppg, 7 reb, 6 ast, 35% fg 20% 3p and 6 turnovers/game.

I'll leave it at that and don't need to keep posting since everyone has it in their heads. I don't hate Lebron and think he is great - just that people get caught in the moment way too hard.

 

[Nebfanatic]

If the east sucks so bad

none of the big free agents come to the east

And there you have it - answered your own question.

Or they don't want to play Lebron in the playoffs

Could be. But that's not a rebuttal to what BIG ERN said.

and what has Big ERN been coming with except opinion? I asked him to make a statistical case for Kobe over Lebron and he couldn't so he resorted to other arguments so I don't really see how my rebuttals matter at that point.

I already stated several stats that show that Kobe wasn't carried by Shaq and when he came into the league he got little PT his first two years which brings down his career averages. LeBron is 32 right now, when Kobe was 33 he still averaged 30 ppg in the Playoffs that year. He then declined after the achilles injury.
LeBron career right now is 27, 7, 7 - Larry Bird ended with 24, 10, 6 so yes, I have seen these numbers done before just maybe not as late in career. Bird arguably has the best season in NBA history: 28/9/7 53% FG 40% 3p and 91% FT. Avg 10 reb/game for his career and LeBron has never avg 9 reb in one season yet.

This years stats are also so inflated it isn't funny. Westbrook averaged 31/10/10 and Harden 29/11/8. Possessions and scoring for all teams is up along with not being able to breathe on anyone.

Furthermore, people never give enough credit to Kobe winning back-to-back titles with an average team. Not one player averaged over 19 ppg in the playoffs for the Lakers in 09' or 10' besides Kobe. In 10' they beat Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, K Perkins, Rasheed Wallace, Nate Robinson, and Tony Allen

never once said Shaq carried Kobe but I'm not gonna lie and sit here and say Kobe would have won without Shaq. Lebron in 9 less games has more points rebounds assists blocks and steals total in the playoffs than Kobe. Again Kobe was fantastic, all time great, but he wasn't the all around player that Lebron is. He doesn't impact his team in the same way because the offense runs through Lebron. He is their facilitator and also probably their #1 scoring option. Kobe wasn't the facilitator Lebron is, other than that their games are pretty much on the same level except Kobe isn't as physically intimidating as Lebron. Not trying to slight Kobe but the fact of the matter is if you ask any NBA expert who the better player is they will say Lebron

 

[Nebfanatic]

AND for being a Top 5 player all-time LeBron had the worst Final's performance.

In 2007 they were swept (0-4) which is fine cause the Cavs sucked, but you have to play better than this.

22 ppg, 7 reb, 6 ast, 35% fg 20% 3p and 6 turnovers/game.

I'll leave it at that and don't need to keep posting since everyone has it in their heads. I don't hate Lebron and think he is great - just that people get caught in the moment way too hard.

on the worst finals team of all time against one of the great teams of all time lol I would have expected the Heat Mavs series instead. Lebron has his faults but so does Kobe. I'm not gonna sit here and defend Lebron all day like this anyway, I like the Pelicans hahaha

 

[Landlord]

As a huge Kobe Bryant fan since I was 6 years old and he entered the league, he's just not as great as Lebron. Still one of the absolute best to ever play, but not as good. You can try to manipulate and massage arguments all you want but reality is that Lebron has made a career out of doing more, doing it more efficiently, and doing it with less. Kobe's only edge on Lebron is that he was better at hero ball and that he played in a more competitive conference, but Lebron plays a different kind of basketball.